Undead night elf priestess PTR 8.2.5

[Varodoc]

Don't think Elves will ally with the ones that burned their home..

Except, you know, for the fact that they already did back in 8.1...

[shade3891]

Except, you know, for the fact that they already did back in 8.1...

I don't follow, do you mean the night warrior thing?

[Sondrelk]

I like to dream that maybe this is a Night elf Forsaken that will break free from Sylvanas and reveal that, no. The Nelves ressurected in Darkshore are not actually joining Sylvanas of their free will, but are actually coerced through some vague mind control that technically leaves them in control, but also convinves them to go against their better nature.
This will set up a huge chain of evens, leading up to a climactic fight against Delaryn where we break her free from the mind control and remind her that she is a Night elf sentinel, duty-bound to defend the Night elves. And in an emotional moment, she will break free from Sylvanas, making Sylvanas' journey into the Arthas 2.0 we all know she is, complete.


Either that or it is a generic Nelf Forsaken model meant added for variety to Sylvanas' ranks, whose lines of dialogue exist solely to try and cement Blizz's idea that the Nelves would actually willingly choose to join Sylvanas after she forced them to watch their home burn and killing them.

- - - Updated - - -

My beliefs in Blizz writing goodlore for the Night elves have pretty much hit rock bottom. If a writer actually thinks that Tyrande got her vengeance by hitting Nathanos for a bit before he runs away like Claw from doctor gadget, then why would Blizz ever actually intend on giving the Nelves actual vengeance for the massacres commited against them, and actually get to participate in a raid where Sylvanas is defeated, finally allowing the Nelves their vengeance.

[tripleh]

Hopefully this will cause more players to unsub , allowing activision to take full control. Danuser and Alex are at it again with stupid ideas. So hoping this cost them there jobs.
Be sure to spread the word to players thinking of returning and even those that are still playing that enjoy nightelves. Use this as a way to make subs decline further.

[Jamie081]

Undead Night Elves? What's next? Goblin Humans? I wish they'd stop mixing things between factions and removing their uniqueness. It's like they've had enough homogenising classes so now they're homogenising races too.

[matrix123mko]

On the other note, can death knights get red eyes?

[tripleh]

This is the best the narrative team could come up with seriously?? They need to add a version of term limits to wows narrative team. Replacing them with new fresh members with good ideas. The story isn't gonna get any better.

[Varodoc]

I don't follow, do you mean the night warrior thing?

Look up Sira and Delaryn on WoWpedia. They are undead night elves who willingly join Sylvanas after being raised.

[Cobman]

Oh god I see this happening, undead night elves for horde and high elves for alliance...

[Raetary]

Undead Night Elves? What's next? Goblin Humans? I wish they'd stop mixing things between factions and removing their uniqueness. It's like they've had enough homogenising classes so now they're homogenising races too.

Being undead isn't a horde exclusive race, its a state of being.

Anyone can be undead.
Literally anyone, you just have to raise them.

This right here:

Undead Night Elves? What's next? Goblin Humans?

is like saying a car and a banana are the same thing.

[Rhlor]

Oh god I see this happening, undead night elves for horde and high elves for alliance...

no more factions

[Piamonte]

One of which was due to their own stupidity because they were sent to scout and decided to try to engage Nathanos and the Horde instead.



I mean, not at all? Tyrande went to Elune and demanded justice. Something no one else bothered to think to do?



I mean, the entirety of Cataclysm still happened.

And hell, then you have other characters of shorter lived races watching the Horde wipe out their home to....turn on the Horde and demand revenge instead of joining them.



The irrational reaction would still be to lash out at the people who caused their family pain and suffering.

I mean hell, Delaryn's lover was killed by the Horde and she just...joins them?



You say this as if there wasn't already Night elves who turned into what they hated to fight a greater battle (Demon Hunters).



It doesn't change though people's frustration which is admittedly starting to get justified here. And hell, I'd say the same for the Forsaken if they keep pushing the Lightforged undead idea too.



That would be something that could make sense if they actually incorporated it in game somehow.

Or if they made it from the start that Night elves are immune to undeath because of Elune's protection, and then work in the fact that they were even able to be dragged back into undeath as a sign.



Yes, Sira was told to scout out, tried to engage instead, and then whined that it was Maiev's fault.

im not saying they are inmune to undeath, im saying that without elune´s blessing their spirits will suffer for all eternity, so they choose to go back to life through undeath and once they are back they realize they wont ever be accepted back in their society so they ally with silvanas and the horde to survive and avoid death, in other words, avoid going back to torment.

[DatToffer]

But the counter point still stands too. It makes no sense to side with the one who caused this. When your point is "well there's nothing logical about the situation!", that doesn't change other's complaints that...well, yeah, there's nothing logical about it. People WANT the logic to be there. It's a story after all.

Counter point and point both stand. Thank you. That was my point since the beginning. You can have both.

They want logic in the scenario. That I understand. I don't like to say this, but we are entitled to a coherent story. That's right. But we are not entitled to characters acting in a logical / rational ways. The story of those forsaken is a pretty logical following of events : Night elves dying > according to Elegy, when the priestesses turned to Elune in their last moment, they only had a silence for answer > Feeling of being abandoned by your goddess > Night elves getting rez as undead with this feeling in mind > Forsaken night elf angry with Elune.

The events are logical. The reaction of the character is not rational. Is that bad ? No.

Because Sira walked into her own death, she should be allowed to lash out and blame others and try to kill them instead?

Sira is not allowed to do anything, we stop her. But the fact is, she tries. You're not allowed to lash out and try to kill your girlfriend if she dumps you for another man. The logical thing to do, since you still love her and want her back, would be to lash out at her new boyfriend. But there are people who lash out at their ex or at her new boyfriend, or at both. It is not logical, nor rational, nor allowed. But it happens. Because sometimes people are just broken, or simply assholes, and if we can't allow that in Warcraft, then let's just rename it Mary Sue-craft.

But your point about Jaina is pretty good. You just miss a tiny teensy detail to make it more related to forsaken NE's case : Jaina didn't feel abandoned by the ones she really believed in. She didn't die and come back with the opportunity to put the blame of her death on her allies. Allies who would now see her as an abomination. (because let's face, even if forsaken NE would try to go back to their people, you can't guarantee they would be met gladly) So if Jaina went through exactly the same thing than the forsaken NE, my guess is she would have sent her tsunami on both the Horde and the Alliance.

If they wanted to go the route of "These Night elves want revenge on Elune for forsaking them", well, they should have split off to do their own thing. Or rejoined the Night Elves because it makes no sense to try to kill the rest of the Night elves for the actions of their goddess. As seen with Demon hunters, they'd rather take actions into their own hands and get their revenge.

But Demon hunters are only a few individuals who presents one specific course of action. Just because they do that, doesn't mean every NE does that. It is one possibility. Not one rule. I agree it would have been nice to see a few of these forsaken NE be just like "huhu no shit mah dude, I'm outtahere". But it just didn't happen because... I dunno the angry wisps were enough maybe ?

Also, when you're angry at a god, it makes total sense to want to kill its believers. Especially when themselves come to end you.
By the way, what do you think would happen to the forsaken NE joining their brothers and sisters back ? Some would be pretty pragmatic about it. Some might even be chill. But you'd also have some to go like : "Yeah okay that's cool and all but you're an aberration now and you should be dead, so we'll just kill you back and you'll go to Elune, okay mate ?"
Well, too bad because as Sylvanas was stripped of her promise paradise by Arthas, those NE were stripped of their reunion with Elune when they became undead. That's the point of them saying "We are forsaken". Not only did Elune abandon their people, she now can't reach them.

When has Elune ever directly intervened though?

Every time a Priestess of Elune made a shiny spell.

Why are they expecting that suddenly?

Because that's the point of believing.

And yet Sira is a soldier throwing a fit because she died and using that as her reason to betray the Alliance?

I mean, let's not forget that's all she keeps saying during the warfront. "MAIEV YOU FAILED ME"

What's her final words? Blaming Tyrande. For...engaging when she wasn't suppose to.

Yeah, yeah, Sira is being resentful, hypocritical, blinded, illogical and irrational. What's your point ? That makes her a baddy, not a glitch in the lore matrix.

Because they built up the Burning of Teldrassil as a moment of rage for the Night elves. A moment for them to lust for revenge, to burn the Horde down, to be something MORE.

And then they trivialize that by giving the dead to the Horde instead. Key characters, just shifted over to the Horde instead.

Key characters ? Sira and Delaryn ? Really ? Delaryn is only key to Sylvanas development. She only exists so that Sylvanas could be like : "Yeah Arthas did this to me and it broke me. Now I'll do this to you because it will break you the same way. And I really really want your people to be broken" And Sira... pfft I guess the only reason she was on Darkshore at that moment is so that Maiev wasn't the one warden being rezed. I dunno though, I would have been okay with Delaryn leading the Horde warfront.

But I don't really see your point. After Darkshore, NE were indeed lusting for revenge and indeed MORE was done. It's just that, before that, they got brought to their lowest point, and even lower than that with the Forsaken adding insult to injury by resurecting their soldiers. Some of these dead soldiers fought back, some didn't, showing the state of despair and resignation their people were in before Tyrande made Elune move her ass and block the sun in Darkshore.

But fuck Blizzard for making a build up that doesn't lead to only one simple resolution, ammiright ? The goodies beat the baddies, yay. I wonder if the people who share your complaint are the same who think Warcraft story is too bland, too predictable.

Again though, Night Elves have always been portrayed as putting their race before all else. The angry wisps are the reaction you'd expect after all that build up.

And now you have... An alternative range of thoughts to what was never a rule !

Betraying their family to join a faction that's been causing them nothing but grief from the moment they stepped through the Dark Portal is just ridiculous.

You know, for all this time my point was not : Forsaken NE are with the Horde, but Forsaken NE are against the living NE. There's a bit of a nuance there. Because, admitting the Forsaken NE get what they want, they kill every Elune worshipper, they spoil every one of her temple and sacred ground. I'm not sure they would stay with the Horde. I see them like your basic emo kid in tantrum mode. They just need someone or something to blame. So once they are over with the people who didn't save them, they might build up enough lucidity to remember who actually killed them.

See, at the core of it, I agree that those forsaken NE aren't acting logical. I just put that on them, not on Blizzard for coming up with that idea.

Like, you can't just go "well Elune didn't help them this once so that's why they act this way".

Talk about trivializing stuff, ammiright ? It's not the "Elune missed to shine on my bowl of blueberries while I was praising her for supper" type of shit and you know it.

That doesn't change the aggression from the Horde while they were still under the blood of Mannoroth.

That doesn't change Garrosh's aggression and defilement of their land.

That doesn't change the defilement of Darkshore.

Wild guess here : those NE forsaken anger issues don't go that far. They are angry at Elune and her worshippers. That might be their top priority right now. Then again, it is dumb. But then again again, NE can be dumb like anyone else. Especially when they get zombified.

Considering how long Night elves live, you don't think for a moment they'd care extremely deeply about their lover? I mean, Tyrande and Malfurion were together for far longer than most character's existences and even Tyrande was pained to leave Malfurion to try to save Ysera.

Well, I never died and came back as an aberration forsaken by Nature. That brings a few problems that I could give a higher priority than a fucking loved one.

But I will act like the people who are in denial of the forsaken NE : A romance as cheesy and cringey and insufferable as Tyrande/Malfurion shouldn't exist, so we should not even begin to consider it a norm among the NE spectrum of behaviour. Ha, denial makes things so easy.

And yet the DHs are explained. They join the Legion side because they became corrupted by the demonic power they contained.

Which is why people keep writing this off as just brainwashing too.

Forsaken NE are explained too. People just don't want to see it, because they don't like it. That's butthurt to the point of denial. But it's okay I guess, we all have our triggers. Mine is about how Blizzard deals with dragons and how dumbly Jarod led the Wild Gods in the War of the Ancients.

And it's pretty illogical to have them if you ask me.

Well that's the other problem. Nobody asked. I know you went on board when the argument already started, but nobody asked anyone about this. Again, it was not the topic of the thread. And again, I'm taking that fucking bait.

[tripleh]

Hoping this one really bites the narrative back hard if this is true. I could careless for lightforged forsaken joining the alliance. Been unsubbed for a while now even after getting pathfinder finished. Honestly doubt anything they announce at blizzcon will make it worth playing the game again. Having nightelves on the horde side will kill any interests in returning for alot of players.

[Jester Joe]

Counter point and point both stand. Thank you. That was my point since the beginning. You can have both.

They want logic in the scenario. That I understand. I don't like to say this, but we are entitled to a coherent story. That's right. But we are not entitled to characters acting in a logical / rational ways. The story of those forsaken is a pretty logical following of events : Night elves dying > according to Elegy, when the priestesses turned to Elune in their last moment, they only had a silence for answer > Feeling of being abandoned by your goddess > Night elves getting rez as undead with this feeling in mind > Forsaken night elf angry with Elune.

The events are logical. The reaction of the character is not rational. Is that bad ? No.

It is when it flies in the face of the development the night elves have gotten overall though.

And neither of them are Priestesses though. Also, mind you, it was clearly shown that Sira's last thoughts were about Tyrande not showing up in time, which was still due to her own fault that she could have fell back instead.

Sira is not allowed to do anything, we stop her. But the fact is, she tries. You're not allowed to lash out and try to kill your girlfriend if she dumps you for another man. The logical thing to do, since you still love her and want her back, would be to lash out at her new boyfriend. But there are people who lash out at their ex or at her new boyfriend, or at both. It is not logical, nor rational, nor allowed. But it happens. Because sometimes people are just broken, or simply assholes, and if we can't allow that in Warcraft, then let's just rename it Mary Sue-craft.

If someone does that in real life, you call them a horrible person. Even if they're lashing out at the new boyfriend instead of trying to find out why they might have been dumped.

Mind you, huge difference again between "wanting revenge" and "I also want to kill my fellow night elves because of someone else's actions".

[QUOTE=DatToffer;51601710]But your point about Jaina is pretty good. You just miss a tiny teensy detail to make it more related to forsaken NE's case : Jaina didn't feel abandoned by the ones she really believed in. She didn't die and come back with the opportunity to put the blame of her death on her allies. Allies who would now see her as an abomination. (because let's face, even if forsaken NE would try to go back to their people, you can't guarantee they would be met gladly) So if Jaina went through exactly the same thing than the forsaken NE, my guess is she would have sent her tsunami on both the Horde and the Alliance.

Oh?

You're telling me she didn't turn on Varian for him trying to allow the Blood elves back into the Alliance and snap at him?

She didn't turn her back on the Alliance for working with the Horde during Legion, feeling betrayed that they would work with Sylvanas after what happened with Varian?

She did. She very much felt abandoned. There was kinda an entire questline about this entire thing in BfA even. Jaina felt completely and UTTERLY alone.

But she never ONCE tried to kill her old allies for not being there. In fact, her own mother was the reason she got exiled and then was banished into the Blight Lands. And...what did she do? She cried and hugged her mom.

But Demon hunters are only a few individuals who presents one specific course of action. Just because they do that, doesn't mean every NE does that. It is one possibility. Not one rule. I agree it would have been nice to see a few of these forsaken NE be just like "huhu no shit mah dude, I'm outtahere". But it just didn't happen because... I dunno the angry wisps were enough maybe ?
Also, when you're angry at a god, it makes total sense to want to kill its believers. Especially when themselves come to end you.

The FIRST thing Maiev does is ask Sira to surrender and come back. Sira is the one who keeps saying she's going to kill Maiev for failing her.

By the way, what do you think would happen to the forsaken NE joining their brothers and sisters back ? Some would be pretty pragmatic about it. Some might even be chill. But you'd also have some to go like : "Yeah okay that's cool and all but you're an aberration now and you should be dead, so we'll just kill you back and you'll go to Elune, okay mate ?"
Well, too bad because as Sylvanas was stripped of her promise paradise by Arthas, those NE were stripped of their reunion with Elune when they became undead. That's the point of them saying "We are forsaken". Not only did Elune abandon their people, she now can't reach them.

It's never been shown what happens to Sylvanas is the norm. It very well could be because of her own actions. It's an assumption.
Just like it's an assumption that they'd want to instantly kill them. They accepted back death knights over time after all.

If anything, it would fuel their hate for Sylvanas herself for cursing others like that.

Every time a Priestess of Elune made a shiny spell.

That isn't directly Elune. No more than a priest channeling the light is directly the Light.

Tyrande is just the closest to Elune.

Because that's the point of believing.

But again, there's no real history of her ever being directly involved to that degree.

Yeah, yeah, Sira is being resentful, hypocritical, blinded, illogical and irrational. What's your point ? That makes her a baddy, not a glitch in the lore matrix.

That one person would make sense maybe. Several? Dozens? Enough to make an allied race? No. Void elves were already a huge stretch.

Key characters ? Sira and Delaryn ? Really ? Delaryn is only key to Sylvanas development. She only exists so that Sylvanas could be like : "Yeah Arthas did this to me and it broke me. Now I'll do this to you because it will break you the same way. And I really really want your people to be broken" And Sira... pfft I guess the only reason she was on Darkshore at that moment is so that Maiev wasn't the one warden being rezed. I dunno though, I would have been okay with Delaryn leading the Horde warfront.

Yet Sira has had a bit of a history.
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Sira_Moonwarden

But I don't really see your point. After Darkshore, NE were indeed lusting for revenge and indeed MORE was done. It's just that, before that, they got brought to their lowest point, and even lower than that with the Forsaken adding insult to injury by resurecting their soldiers. Some of these dead soldiers fought back, some didn't, showing the state of despair and resignation their people were in before Tyrande made Elune move her ass and block the sun in Darkshore.

Where did you see any resurrected night elves fight back against it?

None did.

But fuck Blizzard for making a build up that doesn't lead to only one simple resolution, ammiright ? The goodies beat the baddies, yay. I wonder if the people who share your complaint are the same who think Warcraft story is too bland, too predictable.

That's a strawman.

And now you have... An alternative range of thoughts to what was never a rule !

Okay. Then provide something to show that.

Prove it wasn't a rule. Because it very much is a core part of the night elf culture but you seem to think it's not suddenly, despite night elf fans hating this saying exactly that it makes no sense.

You know, for all this time my point was not : Forsaken NE are with the Horde, but Forsaken NE are against the living NE. There's a bit of a nuance there. Because, admitting the Forsaken NE get what they want, they kill every Elune worshipper, they spoil every one of her temple and sacred ground. I'm not sure they would stay with the Horde. I see them like your basic emo kid in tantrum mode. They just need someone or something to blame. So once they are over with the people who didn't save them, they might build up enough lucidity to remember who actually killed them.

See, at the core of it, I agree that those forsaken NE aren't acting logical. I just put that on them, not on Blizzard for coming up with that idea.

Doesn't mean it makes for a good story though.

It would make FAR more sense for them to align with the rest of the Alliance and possibly be cold towards Night elves at MOST.

But the Alliance themselves aren't the ones at fault. So it makes no sense to suddenly want to bring them down.

Talk about trivializing stuff, ammiright ? It's not the "Elune missed to shine on my bowl of blueberries while I was praising her for supper" type of shit and you know it.

Except you can also clearly see that it's all Sylvanas to blame. Elune had nothing to do with it.

Wild guess here : those NE forsaken anger issues don't go that far. They are angry at Elune and her worshippers. That might be their top priority right now. Then again, it is dumb. But then again again, NE can be dumb like anyone else. Especially when they get zombified.

Except they're trying to play this off as they have more reasons at play, and they've been adamant that Sylvanas doesn't use mind control or anything.

Well, I never died and came back as an aberration forsaken by Nature. That brings a few problems that I could give a higher priority than a fucking loved one.

But I will act like the people who are in denial of the forsaken NE : A romance as cheesy and cringey and insufferable as Tyrande/Malfurion shouldn't exist, so we should not even begin to consider it a norm among the NE spectrum of behaviour. Ha, denial makes things so easy.

Why does it matter what YOU would do?

And that sounds like a whole lotta opinions for someone who keeps insisting personal opinion isn't relevant.

Forsaken NE are explained too. People just don't want to see it, because they don't like it. That's butthurt to the point of denial. But it's okay I guess, we all have our triggers. Mine is about how Blizzard deals with dragons and how dumbly Jarod led the Wild Gods in the War of the Ancients.

Again, but it makes no sense. Insulting people's points doesn't suddenly make yours more valid.

Well that's the other problem. Nobody asked. I know you went on board when the argument already started, but nobody asked anyone about this. Again, it was not the topic of the thread. And again, I'm taking that fucking bait.

Then why are you in a thread that's discussing the existence of undead night elves

[Eggroll]

Imagine 8.3 Sylvanas was good all along and it was all part of a master plan to stop the Void Lords or some shit. Everyone is happy. There are hugs. And suddenly Tyrande whispers to Sylvanas:

The Lannisters send their regards.

Or better yet:

Did you think we have forgotten? Did you think we have forgiven?

I'm still hoping for Delaryn to backstab Sylvanas in her most glorious hour

[TriHard]

https://ptr.wowhead.com/npc=159799/a...delviewer:10+0

I hope to see something interesting with the night elves undead!

That's cool af, not gonna lie

[DatToffer]

It is when it flies in the face of the development the night elves have gotten overall though.

And neither of them are Priestesses though. Also, mind you, it was clearly shown that Sira's last thoughts were about Tyrande not showing up in time, which was still due to her own fault that she could have fell back instead.

But development implies changes. Even if it looks like a 180° rotation to the idea you had of that development.

If someone does that in real life, you call them a horrible person. Even if they're lashing out at the new boyfriend instead of trying to find out why they might have been dumped.

Forsaken NE are indeed horrible people. Then again, what's your point ? It makes sense for them to be horrible. NE were never immune to being assholes.

Mind you, huge difference again between "wanting revenge" and "I also want to kill my fellow night elves because of someone else's actions".

Those are two really different courses of actions, and again I agree with that. I just don't think one should be exclusive to the other. You can have NE in the "wanting revenge" side and NE in the "I want to kill my fellow night elves because of someone else's actions". Even though the second one requires a special mindset that can be brought by really twisted conditions. But yeah, it's not exactly an uncommon trope, the "I'll blame my people as a whole for something that happened to me".

You're telling me she didn't turn on Varian for him trying to allow the Blood elves back into the Alliance and snap at him?

She didn't turn her back on the Alliance for working with the Horde during Legion, feeling betrayed that they would work with Sylvanas after what happened with Varian?

She did. She very much felt abandoned. There was kinda an entire questline about this entire thing in BfA even. Jaina felt completely and UTTERLY alone.

But she never ONCE tried to kill her old allies for not being there. In fact, her own mother was the reason she got exiled and then was banished into the Blight Lands. And...what did she do? She cried and hugged her mom.

Those are different timeframes. Jaina started to get more angry after what happened to Theramore. In fact the more belligerent she was becoming, the more support she started losing. The event you were referring comes before that, and the Alliance surely didn't left her during the destruction of Theramore. So she was not in the mood to tidal-wave everybody.

But let's take another example. Garrosh blamed Thrall for his failure : he turned against everyone. He was not under the influence of Yshaarj's Heart when it came to his mind. So here you have a character who goes against his own people without even having his mind twisted by the undeath. And yet he used to put the orcs above everything else.

The FIRST thing Maiev does is ask Sira to surrender and come back. Sira is the one who keeps saying she's going to kill Maiev for failing her.

Okay fair point, we might never know what happens if the forsaken NE try to join their kind back.

It's never been shown what happens to Sylvanas is the norm. It very well could be because of her own actions. It's an assumption.
Just like it's an assumption that they'd want to instantly kill them. They accepted back death knights over time after all.

If anything, it would fuel their hate for Sylvanas herself for cursing others like that.

Varian accepted death knights. I'm not sure what the NE as a whole think about them. So I won't go there and assume things.

But, even if Sylvanas hated Arthas, you still see her doing to Delaryn and the night elves exactly what he did to her. Again, twisted minds at work. It's reasonable nor rational, but it makes sense.

That isn't directly Elune. No more than a priest channeling the light is directly the Light.

Tyrande is just the closest to Elune.

You're missing the point of faith and really can't put yourself in the characters shoes because you keep seing things as a player. And that really blocks the discussion. When you see a moon priestess calling for the power of Elune and launching a spell, you'd say it is Elune who did that, because she granted that power. Of course mechanicaly speaking it is not exactly true, but it is in the eye of the believers.

Several? Dozens? Enough to make an allied race? No. Void elves were already a huge stretch.

I'd go easily for several. But enough to make a fucking allied race ? Whoever said that ? I surely didn't.

Where did you see any resurrected night elves fight back against it?

The angry wisps.

Prove it wasn't a rule. Because it very much is a core part of the night elf culture but you seem to think it's not suddenly, despite night elf fans hating this saying exactly that it makes no sense.

You want examples of NE who don't put their kind above everything else ? I guess that would be easy. The ones in the Cenarion Circle care more about the nature and the world, which brings them to work with the Horde sometimes. The DH put the defeat of the Legion above everything else, Illidan is blatant for that, when you look at some of his fucked up plans. DK care more about the deafeating of the Scourge, then they just care about their shot of violence. Malfurion sacrificed his people immortality to save the world. Every highborne who became a satyr. Every highborne who became a naga.

Doesn't mean it makes for a good story though.

It would make FAR more sense for them to align with the rest of the Alliance and possibly be cold towards Night elves at MOST.

But the Alliance themselves aren't the ones at fault. So it makes no sense to suddenly want to bring them down.

It would make sense to have some do it. I see sense in seeing some not doing it. Sadly Blizzard chose to show us only one of those possibilities. Well one and a half, if you're not eager to cast aside those loyal angry wisps.

Except you can also clearly see that it's all Sylvanas to blame. Elune had nothing to do with it.

Objectively, yes. Tyrande, Elune, the Alliance are not to blame. But characters are not supposed to be objective, nor even rational.

Except they're trying to play this off as they have more reasons at play, and they've been adamant that Sylvanas doesn't use mind control or anything.

Yeah, answers we'll probably never get. Well that's too bad, and the reason why I can only make wild guess.

Why does it matter what YOU would do?

And that sounds like a whole lotta opinions for someone who keeps insisting personal opinion isn't relevant.

You're the one suggesting Delaryn having a lover is a relevant point. Speculation for speculation, assumption for assumption, I can only answer with as much detail on the matter that is given to me. So none, really.

Again, but it makes no sense. Insulting people's points doesn't suddenly make yours more valid.

Well, when people's point consists solely in not seeing the point and even rejecting the idea to look for it, then complaining about it every time they get the opportunity to do so. Yeah sorry but that might enter the definition of butthurt.

Then why are you in a thread that's discussing the existence of undead night elves

The thread's topic is that :

https://ptr.wowhead.com/npc=159799/a...delviewer:10+0

I hope to see something interesting with the night elves undead!

But whiners jumped on that wagon to go on their usual rant about how they shouldn't have been a thing in the first place. They don't really care about seeing more in the future.

[dragnipur]

But why will they make undead Nelves?What is the reason when there already has San'layn.I prefer to have playble the 2nd.

[Yarathir]

But why will they make undead Nelves?What is the reason when there already has San'layn.I prefer to have playble the 2nd.

A few last shots to shit on the NE before BfA ends.
Also if either of the two are made playable, NE are obviously easier since they'd just be a skin but please god don't let that happen