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  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    It is when it flies in the face of the development the night elves have gotten overall though.

    And neither of them are Priestesses though. Also, mind you, it was clearly shown that Sira's last thoughts were about Tyrande not showing up in time, which was still due to her own fault that she could have fell back instead.
    But development implies changes. Even if it looks like a 180° rotation to the idea you had of that development.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    If someone does that in real life, you call them a horrible person. Even if they're lashing out at the new boyfriend instead of trying to find out why they might have been dumped.
    Forsaken NE are indeed horrible people. Then again, what's your point ? It makes sense for them to be horrible. NE were never immune to being assholes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    Mind you, huge difference again between "wanting revenge" and "I also want to kill my fellow night elves because of someone else's actions".
    Those are two really different courses of actions, and again I agree with that. I just don't think one should be exclusive to the other. You can have NE in the "wanting revenge" side and NE in the "I want to kill my fellow night elves because of someone else's actions". Even though the second one requires a special mindset that can be brought by really twisted conditions. But yeah, it's not exactly an uncommon trope, the "I'll blame my people as a whole for something that happened to me".

    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    You're telling me she didn't turn on Varian for him trying to allow the Blood elves back into the Alliance and snap at him?

    She didn't turn her back on the Alliance for working with the Horde during Legion, feeling betrayed that they would work with Sylvanas after what happened with Varian?

    She did. She very much felt abandoned. There was kinda an entire questline about this entire thing in BfA even. Jaina felt completely and UTTERLY alone.

    But she never ONCE tried to kill her old allies for not being there. In fact, her own mother was the reason she got exiled and then was banished into the Blight Lands. And...what did she do? She cried and hugged her mom.
    Those are different timeframes. Jaina started to get more angry after what happened to Theramore. In fact the more belligerent she was becoming, the more support she started losing. The event you were referring comes before that, and the Alliance surely didn't left her during the destruction of Theramore. So she was not in the mood to tidal-wave everybody.

    But let's take another example. Garrosh blamed Thrall for his failure : he turned against everyone. He was not under the influence of Yshaarj's Heart when it came to his mind. So here you have a character who goes against his own people without even having his mind twisted by the undeath. And yet he used to put the orcs above everything else.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    The FIRST thing Maiev does is ask Sira to surrender and come back. Sira is the one who keeps saying she's going to kill Maiev for failing her.
    Okay fair point, we might never know what happens if the forsaken NE try to join their kind back.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    It's never been shown what happens to Sylvanas is the norm. It very well could be because of her own actions. It's an assumption.
    Just like it's an assumption that they'd want to instantly kill them. They accepted back death knights over time after all.

    If anything, it would fuel their hate for Sylvanas herself for cursing others like that.
    Varian accepted death knights. I'm not sure what the NE as a whole think about them. So I won't go there and assume things.

    But, even if Sylvanas hated Arthas, you still see her doing to Delaryn and the night elves exactly what he did to her. Again, twisted minds at work. It's reasonable nor rational, but it makes sense.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    That isn't directly Elune. No more than a priest channeling the light is directly the Light.

    Tyrande is just the closest to Elune.
    You're missing the point of faith and really can't put yourself in the characters shoes because you keep seing things as a player. And that really blocks the discussion. When you see a moon priestess calling for the power of Elune and launching a spell, you'd say it is Elune who did that, because she granted that power. Of course mechanicaly speaking it is not exactly true, but it is in the eye of the believers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    Several? Dozens? Enough to make an allied race? No. Void elves were already a huge stretch.
    I'd go easily for several. But enough to make a fucking allied race ? Whoever said that ? I surely didn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    Where did you see any resurrected night elves fight back against it?
    The angry wisps.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    Prove it wasn't a rule. Because it very much is a core part of the night elf culture but you seem to think it's not suddenly, despite night elf fans hating this saying exactly that it makes no sense.
    You want examples of NE who don't put their kind above everything else ? I guess that would be easy. The ones in the Cenarion Circle care more about the nature and the world, which brings them to work with the Horde sometimes. The DH put the defeat of the Legion above everything else, Illidan is blatant for that, when you look at some of his fucked up plans. DK care more about the deafeating of the Scourge, then they just care about their shot of violence. Malfurion sacrificed his people immortality to save the world. Every highborne who became a satyr. Every highborne who became a naga.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    Doesn't mean it makes for a good story though.

    It would make FAR more sense for them to align with the rest of the Alliance and possibly be cold towards Night elves at MOST.

    But the Alliance themselves aren't the ones at fault. So it makes no sense to suddenly want to bring them down.
    It would make sense to have some do it. I see sense in seeing some not doing it. Sadly Blizzard chose to show us only one of those possibilities. Well one and a half, if you're not eager to cast aside those loyal angry wisps.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    Except you can also clearly see that it's all Sylvanas to blame. Elune had nothing to do with it.
    Objectively, yes. Tyrande, Elune, the Alliance are not to blame. But characters are not supposed to be objective, nor even rational.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    Except they're trying to play this off as they have more reasons at play, and they've been adamant that Sylvanas doesn't use mind control or anything.
    Yeah, answers we'll probably never get. Well that's too bad, and the reason why I can only make wild guess.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    Why does it matter what YOU would do?

    And that sounds like a whole lotta opinions for someone who keeps insisting personal opinion isn't relevant.
    You're the one suggesting Delaryn having a lover is a relevant point. Speculation for speculation, assumption for assumption, I can only answer with as much detail on the matter that is given to me. So none, really.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    Again, but it makes no sense. Insulting people's points doesn't suddenly make yours more valid.
    Well, when people's point consists solely in not seeing the point and even rejecting the idea to look for it, then complaining about it every time they get the opportunity to do so. Yeah sorry but that might enter the definition of butthurt.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    Then why are you in a thread that's discussing the existence of undead night elves
    The thread's topic is that :

    https://ptr.wowhead.com/npc=159799/a...delviewer:10+0

    I hope to see something interesting with the night elves undead!
    But whiners jumped on that wagon to go on their usual rant about how they shouldn't have been a thing in the first place. They don't really care about seeing more in the future.

  2. #182
    But why will they make undead Nelves?What is the reason when there already has San'layn.I prefer to have playble the 2nd.
    It begins with absence and desire.It begins with blood and fear.It begins with....

  3. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by dragnipur View Post
    But why will they make undead Nelves?What is the reason when there already has San'layn.I prefer to have playble the 2nd.
    A few last shots to shit on the NE before BfA ends.
    Also if either of the two are made playable, NE are obviously easier since they'd just be a skin but please god don't let that happen

  4. #184
    Quote Originally Posted by Piamonte View Post
    I think the answer lies in what happens when they are dead, may be for whatever reason they go to the same place where silvanas went and then they are offered a deal from the valkyrs "we get you out of this place but you serve silvanas", so they are force to go with it, i mean its that or hell.
    Nah, it can't be that. Your hypothesis would only make sense if those raised by Sylvanas showed reluctance in their servitude, but they don't. They display open contempt toward their former allies, and open, willing servitude to their former foes.
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  5. #185
    Elemental Lord Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    They display open contempt toward their former allies, and open, willing servitude to their former foes.
    "totally not mind control" if its not i call bananas.

    Its like Sylvanas wiling allying with Arthas and the LK, because silvermon/quelthalas failed her

  6. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    "totally not mind control" if its not i call bananas.

    Its like Sylvanas wiling allying with Arthas and the LK, because silvermon/quelthalas failed her
    This. The line that Blizzard gives about free will being a cornerstone of Forsaken culture has always been BS. Blizzard thinks it’s cool to have playable Scourge, so they pretzel the lore around them so the other races don’t kill them on sight, but then still have them follow the Scourge playbook as far as their in-game actions/motivations are concerned.

    Using Derek Proudmoore as an example, people like to play semantics games and say that physical and mental torture with the goal of breaking someone’s psyche isn’t mind control. Even if we adhere to the aforementioned semantics, what Sylvanas was doing isn’t any better than just straight up using mind control, and in fact can be looked at as being significantly worse.

  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Nah, it can't be that. Your hypothesis would only make sense if those raised by Sylvanas showed reluctance in their servitude, but they don't. They display open contempt toward their former allies, and open, willing servitude to their former foes.
    May be the reluctance happens meanwhile they are dead, when they are bargaining with the valkyr, the same way silvanas was reluctant before accepting an alliance with them.

  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by Piamonte View Post
    May be the reluctance happens meanwhile they are dead, when they are bargaining with the valkyr, the same way silvanas was reluctant before accepting an alliance with them.
    But if the end result is a person that resembles the original in nothing but appearance, with their minds twisted to hate their former allies and serve their former enemies, that is still 'mind control', even if the person willingly subjected themselves to the servitude under the threat of eternal damnation.
    I did a Necromancer thing. Check it out! All feedback welcome!
    Update 08/17: I changed how the Bone spec's golem mechanic works, as well as some other minor changes.
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  9. #189
    Brewmaster Wangming's Avatar
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    We can't really end this debate as long as we don't know what happens when night elves (or anyone) dies. Maybe 9.0 will answer that.

  10. #190
    Quote Originally Posted by Wangming View Post
    We can't really end this debate as long as we don't know what happens when night elves (or anyone) dies. Maybe 9.0 will answer that.
    Either it's shit writing or it's mind control/such dramatic warping of the mind that the person can't even be considered the same as before they died, which somehow equates to them wanting to lick Sylvanas' boots, which may as well be mind control.

  11. #191
    It's just sh*t writing, and players need to let others know about it. Best way to do damage to the narrative team is to point out how bad there hack ideas really are. Use there own ideas against them by having players hate/loose interests in the story/lore being made. Now imagine if they tried to put this into a book chargin $20+ for this. Only to be filled with crap and holes. Remember Danuser and Gregory ignored and avoided answering any player questions during that trash twitch stream months ago. Spread the word and point out the crap there making.

  12. #192
    I'd be really amused if this turned out to be some Halloween event or a placeholder.

  13. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by VooDsXo View Post
    Only people who play Nelf or are lore ignorant think the Night Elf are some noble race of great people. They in fact tried to murder countless other races for being different than them...Compared to most races the Nelf are the highest class trash in the world. Don't think because Malfurion and Tyrande are noble that the entire race or their history is noble at all.

    If the game was in anyway proper Undead would be able to be any race except Pandaren who wasn't victim to the scourge.
    Are you a Forsaken player?
    You sound like a Forsaken player.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Powerogue View Post
    https://wow.gamepedia.com/Moon_Priestess_Amara

    Seems like someone found out who this npc was prior. Fairly minor NPC living in Teldrassil. My first encounter with a mounted NPC that made me really want one of those cool sabercat mounts as a noob. Unfortunately that leaves no hint as to her role in future content.

    - - - Updated - - -



    It's nothing new, that's for sure. Play through the Silverpine questline and you see plenty of it.

    Val'kyr: Yo, you're dead now. You either serve us or get put back in the ground where we found you.
    Zombies: M'kay, fair enough.

    With the handwave excuse as well of some of them being briefly "crazed" after being rezzed and able to be directed towards enemies.
    It almost does, though, and you just said why it may be important, but you didn't realize it.

    She lived in Teldrassil. If she's now been raised, then what do you think that means?
    Personally, it sounds like Sylvanas is raising a bunch of Night Elves from within the remains of Teldressil with the whole "Elune abandoned you and let you burn. Join me, and get revenge."
    She could easily add "The king of Stormwind let you burn. Where was his army? Where were his Mages to help you escape? Why did Elune let you die?" etc etc.

    Not saying "OMG IT'S GOING TO BE AN ALLIED RACE FOR HORDE!", but it could be an interesting plot point at the very least, trying to turn the Night Elves against themselves, and against Stormwind like she wants. However, we won't know until the patch drops. She could've been somewhere else along the coast and been raised without the above, but which sounds more interesting?
    Quote Originally Posted by rda View Post
    ^^ ROFL. None of what you said matters.

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