The Golden Ticket: One Free Retcon

[McNeil]

There's a lot of retcons I'd like to see, but if there's one that I really want to see badly its probably that the forsaken and night elves were their own faction. WoW could have started like this:

Alliance:

- Human
- Dwarf
- Gnome

Horde:

- Orc
- Troll
- Tauren

Forsaken:

- Undead
- Blood elves
- Demons (lead by Varimathras)

Night elves:

- Night elves
- Worgen
- Naga

[Zandalariprelate]

But the Void Lords seem constrained from entering the universe in any real capacity, and we've no real idea of what a Dark Titan actually portends - but given all the other Void-corrupted things we've dealt with over the course of WoW it doesn't seem like any of them really have the power to enact universe collapse in an instantaneous fashion. I would imagine a Dark Titan to be like a far more powerful incarnation of an individual Void Lord incarnation (e.g. Dimensius the All-Devouring), who was itself defeated by a single adventurer aiding the Protectorate Ethereals in Outland and also by a single Naaru sacrificing itself at Karkora. A Dark Titan would obviously require far more firepower than even that to defeat - perhaps the sacrifice of a Titan themselves, or even the entire Pantheon, who can really say.

Sure is all expecutarion but Argus had the power of destroy the universe and likely a full void titan can do the trick as well. Though I always assumed the real purpose of a void titan was to work as warlock to summon the void lords or as some avatar to transport the energies and souls of the warcraft physical universe to theirs and reshape the universe as they seem fit. Also I agree a void titan is more powerful than any avatar the void lords can conjure which is why they need one titan to fully summon them at their full might or a strong avatar capable of consuming this universe.

[plz delete account]

That one has me interested, what would you make those factions?

3, Legion. Rather... Ex-Legion. Striking out on their own for a better future.
Man'ari, Succubi, etc. Yes I know, boring in race choices; but the lore would more then make up for it, and so would the potential storytelling.

4 would be more of a mix of aquatics such as Naga (From Illidan's Illidari) and Gilbins and such, and Ex-scourge such as the San'layn and Narubians,

I feel the potential lore would more then make up for any discrepencies that would be caused by retcons or the like.

- - - Updated - - -

Ofc the Forsaken would probably defect to one of the new factions, and be replaced by some OG Horde race.

[Soon-TM]

one legion for all timelines and universes.

Argh. I had almost managed to forget this BS, and now you remind me about it The only explanation I can think of is that Afrasiabi (or one of his underlings) thought it sounded cool™, so it was added without any further thoughts.

The other thing I'd nuke from orbit is the cringey redemption of BEs at the end of BC. Their characterization until then worked just fine, and it helped to explain why they joined the Horde (crack elves needed their !@#& badly but the source was out of order, so they had to lick demons and other unsavoury creatures - something which might have put them at odds with the picky Alliance, much unlike the Horde). Also, having openly evil paladins was actually cool, and gave the Blood Knights a very distinct flavour when compared to their goody goody, self-righteous Alliance counterparts.

It was also the first time that a Horde race was displayed as pathetically unable to solve its internal issues, having to rely instead on an Alliance holy figure to get their !@#& together. But boy didn't I know how much worse would it get...

[Klingers]

Warlords didn't happen.

[steelballfc]

Cairne wins the Mak'gora.

Carine for Warchife

[Bladesyphon]

Azeroth is the last (and most powerful) of the Titans found by the Pantheon before Sargeras killed at Nihilam, but it's unknown if Azeroth is indeed the "final" Titan (especially in light of the fact that Argus was an unknown Titan before we countered it in Legion). The Pantheon was also powerful enough to seal away Sargeras, and we don't know if and for how long they may indeed be "stuck" safeguarding him. It's possible that with time they could undo his Fel corruption and even rehabilitate him - who can really say what's possible given time and effort.

Not to sound like a jerk, but your understanding of the Lore is incredibly poor. Pretty much everything you've typed in regards to Sargeras, the Pantheon, and the Void Lords is wrong.

Let's start with the Void Lords, and why they seek a Void Titan. As the other poster said - if Sargeras did not destroy the nascent Titan that was consumed by the Old God parasties, it would have created a Void Titan, and that would have spelled our doom. That is because the Void Titans are little more than a gate way device to be used by the Void Lords to usher in their coming. Once in our dimension, the Void Lords would spread over all existence like a wave, consuming all matter until literally nothing is left in their wake. This leads us to our second point of contention in your understanding of the lore - Sargeras and his reasons for forming the Burning Crusade.

Sargeras never fell to insanity or corruption, he simply was devoted to his grim duty. He DID go to the other Pantheon members originally when he discovered the Void-consumed World Soul, and pleaded for their help. The Pantheon, however, shunned him aside saying that he was a fool for believing the Void to be stronger than they were, and even worst for killing a nascent Titan. The Titan's had no understanding of the Void (and still do not), they arrogantly thought they could have purified the Titan, and in doing so, could have risked the entirety of creation.

Sargeras formed the Burning Legion out of the necessity of sparing the Universe from utter annihilation by essentially burning it and letting it re-grow, believing that the Universe started from nothing, it could do so again. His ideology was that the Void Lords needed a Void Titan to usher in their coming, and if there were literally no Titans left in the Great Dark Beyond, then the Void Lords could never enter our realm, and the universe would be spared utter annihilation. His methodology might not have been the most morally righteous one, but in the face of a foe he knew could not be stopped in any other way, this was the only direction he saw possible.

Next - we did not defeat Sargeras, not in any sense of the word. Sargeras is in a league all of his own, and we would have never stood a chance against him without some serious deus ex machina plot device to get us there. Even the battle against Argus was barely a victory - and it was considerably weaker compared to Sargeras. Remember, what we fought of Argus was it's avatar, similar to what we fought of Aggramar right before hand. We did not fight Argus in his pure Titan form, and it's arguable that Argus was in a severely weakened state when Sargeras transferred his soul into his avatar. Let's also not forget that Argus killed us during the raid as well without breaking a sweat - and it took Eonar and the other Titans to bring us back and give us a fighting chance.

Then, when all was said and done, the Titans had to use the last of their power to bind Sargeras to his seat on the Pantheon, and even then they still needed Illidan to serve as his Jailor to ensure that the Titan wouldn't break free. That's barely a victory in any sense of the word.

Lastly, on the subject of there potentially being more than one Titan out there - there isn't. This doesn't just come from the fact that the Titans themselves seem to be aware of the fact that Azeroth is the last Titan, but it also comes from the Illidan book, where a scene depicts Magtheridon discussing the Legion's progress in cleansing the Great Dark Beyond, stating that there are only a handful of worlds that still remain, Azeroth being one of them. By the time Legion takes place, nearly every single planet in the Great Dark Beyond has been destroyed by the Legion. Azeroth is one of the absolute last hold outs of life in the universe, which is why Sargeras went through such great lengths to claim it. Azeroth was his end-game, and had he managed to destroy the World Soul, or turn it into his Dark Titan, or really do whatever he had wanted, he would have succeeded in protecting the Universe from Azeroth.

So in summary: If Sargeras never created his Burning Crusade or destroyed the Nascent Titan - WoW simply would not exit. The Void Lords would have arrived, consumed the universe, and the story would have ended there. It would have been the very definition of a Bad End.

[Musta]

BFA /10chars

[Claymore]

So, here's the thing; does the retcon mean that things progress in whatever way I dictate? Or you just get to change the particular details surrounding a specific event?

If the latter, I'd have had the Alliance march on Lordaeron *BEFORE* the Burning of Teldrassil. Literally everything about the story would be more palatable had that been the case. Genn and Tyrande would've goaded him into making the first move, which plays right into Sylvanas' paranoia, so her burning Teldrassil would feel far more natural and justified. THAT would've introduced real moral ambiguity to the story, giving the Alliance a ***MUCH NEEDED*** black mark upon their history and reputation.

It would've totally given justification for this entire stupid expansion, because suddenly, the Horde really ARE just various groups banding together to try and survive.

Now, if I could change something, and everything that follows also changes?

Honestly, I'd have never killed Arthas. Instead, I'd have had Ner'zhul wrest control over "the Lich King" after defeating "Arthas", and explain that everything he'd done -- trying to expand the Scourge, all this stuff -- had really been an attempt to build a force capable of standing against the full might of the Burning Legion. I'd have never introduced any of this garbage about "Void Lords", and instead, I would explain that the "Old Gods" were, in fact, the various remnants of Sargeras' corpse, attempting to reunite into his true, horrific form.

The Legion attacks, and the Lich King and the remnants of the Scourge become a tentative ally in the fight against the FULL might of the Burning Legion, with the Old Gods (you'll note they all took the form of various "organs") were transported back to Argus, in an attempt to fully resurrect him in the heart of the Legion's power.

I'd have done a "Cataclysm-type" expansion, where the entirety of Azeroth was being assaulted by the Burning Legion, which could bring access to various other continents. Then, the following expansion has you heading to Argus, which is re-envisioned on a more colossal scale, mostly hellish landscapes, but maybe a couple things more along the lines of "Suramar" (that is, overtly "magical" in nature, but a bit prettier).

Final boss would be Kil'jaeden, but you're too late, Sargeras is resurrected.

He begins waging war across the cosmos, empowering the Legion with more... power, than ever before. The Titan Pantheon shows up, shakes their head at us stupid fucking mortals for allowing this to happen, and then empower us to travel to these other worlds and fight this new "Super Legion". Maybe at that point, each Titan gets their own "expansion", empowering you to fight on another world?

That's obviously taking it to a very far extreme... but I feel like that could've been a lot cooler.

In any case, I honestly don't know what Blizzard could do to make me give a shit about the story anymore. BFA somehow managed to fuck up a whole bunch of things in very short order, to the point I'm not sure the Lore can even be salvaged.

[Magical Mudcrab]

Blizzard has just given you a golden ticket, good for one free retcon to anything in the Warcraft universe.

What do you choose?

The Burning Legion defeats us on Draenor and we're forced to retreat and close the portal, making the Legion seem like an actual threat.

[Claymore]

The Burning Legion defeats us on Draenor and we're forced to retreat and close the portal, making the Legion seem like an actual threat.

Hah, that's actually a really clever one!

That would actually have made WoD seem a lot more relevant, oddly enough. I like it!

[Rexosaurus]

I'll toss in my golden ticket for this too

I would also like to throw my ticket in that hat.

[Aucald]

Not to sound like a jerk, but your understanding of the Lore is incredibly poor. Pretty much everything you've typed in regards to Sargeras, the Pantheon, and the Void Lords is wrong.

I've always liked that form of preamble - "I don't mean to offend, but..." followed by a litany of offenses. But considering this is crouched entirely in form of a vast set of "what if" type scenarios my understanding of the lore isn't really paramount here. It's a situation that didn't happen after all, so a bit of leeway and imagination is going to be a given.

Let's start with the Void Lords, and why they seek a Void Titan. As the other poster said - if Sargeras did not destroy the nascent Titan that was consumed by the Old God parasties, it would have created a Void Titan, and that would have spelled our doom. That is because the Void Titans are little more than a gate way device to be used by the Void Lords to usher in their coming. Once in our dimension, the Void Lords would spread over all existence like a wave, consuming all matter until literally nothing is left in their wake. This leads us to our second point of contention in your understanding of the lore - Sargeras and his reasons for forming the Burning Crusade.

We don't demonstrably *know* that it would "spell our doom," because it's never happened. Sargeras believed that was the case, he argued it with the Pantheon before he struck off on his own - and the Pantheon didn't agree with this reasoning either. We also have no idea what a Void Titan might mean or is, because again, it's never happened to our knowledge (internally or externally). We have zero idea if a Void Titan could open the way for the Void Lords, or if they're just a tool of the Void Lords to act in the material universe, or if they're just a corrupted Titan that could wreck havoc in the physical universe - it's an unknown unknown. Sargeras believed that the existence of a Void Lord was a fatal flaw that the Void Lords could exploit, and so all worlds capable of hosting vulnerable World-Souls must therefore be destroyed before that could be realized. We have "Chronicle Vol. 1" to tell us exactly what Sargeras' rationale was.

Sargeras never fell to insanity or corruption, he simply was devoted to his grim duty. He DID go to the other Pantheon members originally when he discovered the Void-consumed World Soul, and pleaded for their help. The Pantheon, however, shunned him aside saying that he was a fool for believing the Void to be stronger than they were, and even worst for killing a nascent Titan. The Titan's had no understanding of the Void (and still do not), they arrogantly thought they could have purified the Titan, and in doing so, could have risked the entirety of creation.

"Fear, doubt and despair overwhelmed him, and he eventually came to the conclusion that the only way to spare the fundamentally flawed universe from the void lords was to purge it all of life." "Sargeras instantly shattered the prison world, unleashing its countless demonic inhabitants onto the cosmos and creating an explosion of fel energies so powerful that it warped his form into a horrific being of blistering hatred." Perhaps you draw your line somewhere else, but those twin descriptions certainly sound like "insanity" and "corruption" to me? The Pantheon thought there could be other solutions to the problem Sargeras prevented them, such as saving the World-Soul that Sargeras slaughtered out of rage according to "Chronicle Vol. 1." Perhaps the Pantheon was wrong, and perhaps Sargeras was wrong - we'll never really know the answer to that because Sargeras slaughtered the Pantheon and enacted his omnicidal crusade without ever having questioned his own theory.

Sargeras formed the Burning Legion out of the necessity of sparing the Universe from utter annihilation by essentially burning it and letting it re-grow, believing that the Universe started from nothing, it could do so again. His ideology was that the Void Lords needed a Void Titan to usher in their coming, and if there were literally no Titans left in the Great Dark Beyond, then the Void Lords could never enter our realm, and the universe would be spared utter annihilation. His methodology might not have been the most morally righteous one, but in the face of a foe he knew could not be stopped in any other way, this was the only direction he saw possible.

Insofar as he was aware, which again, was a theory completely untested. Sargeras basically decided his own decision-making ability was the equal of *every other Titan*, including the wisdom of Aman'thul and the intellect of Norgannon (who quite literally the keeper of all celestial lore). Sargeras was also wrong in his belief, at least insofar as Azeroth was concerned, as the Pantheon was able to rehabilitate Azeroth and safeguard her from nascent Old God infestation, proving that the World-Soul Sargeras destroyed could indeed have been saved with some effort. Had they not been destroyed by Sargeras in his arrogance they may well have refined a solution to protect all worlds, we'll never really know.

Next - we did not defeat Sargeras, not in any sense of the word. Sargeras is in a league all of his own, and we would have never stood a chance against him without some serious deus ex machina plot device to get us there. Even the battle against Argus was barely a victory - and it was considerably weaker compared to Sargeras. Remember, what we fought of Argus was it's avatar, similar to what we fought of Aggramar right before hand. We did not fight Argus in his pure Titan form, and it's arguable that Argus was in a severely weakened state when Sargeras transferred his soul into his avatar. Let's also not forget that Argus killed us during the raid as well without breaking a sweat - and it took Eonar and the other Titans to bring us back and give us a fighting chance.

We were instrumental in his defeat, as we defeated the Coven of Shivarra who were holding the Pantheon prisoner in Antorus, and we acted in the Pantheon's stead to defeat the avatar of Argus when they were subdued by it. I never said we were alone in victory, but the Titans themselves herald us as their champions as well as the victors. It was because of our actions freeing both the Pantheon and contending with the realized Argus that Sargeras was able to be contained in the Seat of the Pantheon - which I will call his defeat. The Lich King also killed us all in that specific encounter, and it took the intervention of Terenas' spirit to resurrect us and the souls within Frostmourne to hold the Lich King in place for the final strike - but it was still a victory for us, and loss for the Scourge.

Then, when all was said and done, the Titans had to use the last of their power to bind Sargeras to his seat on the Pantheon, and even then they still needed Illidan to serve as his Jailor to ensure that the Titan wouldn't break free. That's barely a victory in any sense of the word.

Illidan chose to stay behind for his own reasons - the Pantheon didn't request he do so, and it doesn't seem like it was ultimately necessary. Illidan stayed because he wished to revenge himself directly on Sargeras, which is both why he repeated the refrain "the hunter is nothing without the hunt" and why when Sargeras is finally teleported into his throne in the Seat that Illidan says "at last." He's glad to finally contend with Sargeras once and for all. Binding away Sargeras is likely the best we can hope for, given his sheer scope and power, and in that I think "victory" is an apt description. At least for the time being both he and his Legion are powerless.

Lastly, on the subject of there potentially being more than one Titan out there - there isn't. This doesn't just come from the fact that the Titans themselves seem to be aware of the fact that Azeroth is the last Titan, but it also comes from the Illidan book, where a scene depicts Magtheridon discussing the Legion's progress in cleansing the Great Dark Beyond, stating that there are only a handful of worlds that still remain, Azeroth being one of them. By the time Legion takes place, nearly every single planet in the Great Dark Beyond has been destroyed by the Legion. Azeroth is one of the absolute last hold outs of life in the universe, which is why Sargeras went through such great lengths to claim it. Azeroth was his end-game, and had he managed to destroy the World Soul, or turn it into his Dark Titan, or really do whatever he had wanted, he would have succeeded in protecting the Universe from Azeroth.

As I said before, Azeroth being the "Final Titan" has been lore since MoP - and yet Argus came from nowhere, presenting to us yet another Titan World-Soul no one knew existed. Perhaps in that handful of worlds exists one last World-Soul, still a scintilla in a slumbering world, who can really say. Perhaps there's even another fully realized Titan out there in Great Dark, having seen firsthand the pillaging of the Legion across the universe and hiding itself out of fear. Who really knows what's out there. The universe is also not a static place - worlds may still be forming out there in the vast, especially now that no one is actively annihilating them. Sargeras claimed that life flourished once in the universe and it may take root once again - that may well happen now since the Legion has been broken.

So in summary: If Sargeras never created his Burning Crusade or destroyed the Nascent Titan - WoW simply would not exit. The Void Lords would have arrived, consumed the universe, and the story would have ended there. It would have been the very definition of a Bad End.

I already offered a counter to your idea a good ways back, although I suppose you missed it. I said Sargeras could've destroyed the world, gone to the Pantheon, but instead of storming off half-cocked could've instead heeded their council and atoned for his rash action. From there, who can say what might've happened. Perhaps the Void does indeed invade and end all things, perhaps the Pantheon enacts a universal safeguard by finding all World-Souls and tending to them. That's the whole thing about a "what if" scenario - you get to write your version of the story. That was, after all, the entire idea.

[Nerovar]

Just remove the BC Draenei/Eredar retcon. Everything got significantly worse after that and it will spare us the worst excrements of WC lore like speaking windchimes, "I am my scars", space ships, argus, light undead, light powered mechs, priest king golden boy Anduin and so on.

[Kwento]

Forsaken never joined the Horde.

[Naitsade]

That whole part with Fandral and the druids of the flame. He was cleared from corruption and left as an emotional wreck by the end of the book leading up to cata. All of a sudden he is evil for no reason.

Have him being released by Tyrande (Illidan style) and have him help lead the night elves in bfa as they figgured that he was actually right all along.

[Wyrt]

Garrosh killed Anduin. I know, it's really hard for an orc to cleave through that level of plot armor bullshit, but come on, at least check that he's dead before leaving.

[Arrashi]

This isn't exactly retcon, but it would make few things diffrent:

Im a massive fan of Ultimate Relatable Strong Female Character Jaina Proudmoore. But there is one thing that would make her better. Max Payne style internal monologues. Like 15 minutes of them for her every apperance. I think they would help flesh out this great character.

[Typhon DeLeon]

Instead of Illidan being brought back and " redeemed " I would have him die at the end of Black Temple instead. Replacing him, I would have Arthas not die at the end of ICC, and after Frostmourne is broken in half and he loses the Helm of Domination he reverts back to plain ole' Arthas. Still having knowledge of what he's done but no longer sinister/evil.

He would then be imprisoned for his crimes, and although he is adamant he is back to normal, he accepts his consequences.

..Oh wow this sounds exactly like Kerrigan in StarCraft 2. Disregard all of what I just wrote.

[Arrashi]

Instead of Illidan being brought back and " redeemed " I would have him die at the end of Black Temple instead. Replacing him, I would have Arthas not die at the end of ICC, and after Frostmourne is broken in half and he loses the Helm of Domination he reverts back to plain ole' Arthas. Still having knowledge of what he's done but no longer sinister/evil.

He would then be imprisoned for his crimes, and although he is adamant he is back to normal, he accepts his consequences.

..Oh wow this sounds exactly like Kerrigan in StarCraft 2. Disregard all of what I just wrote.

But plain ole'Arthas was also just asshole.