The myths about Classic that have fallen apart

[Florena]

So far what heard from other players normal is pretty close to LFR. There should not be any lfr or any difficulty levels at all. There shouls be 1 raid with 1 difficulty with reasonable difficulty what scales up as you progress trought raid or expansion.

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I think i have screenshot. i am gonna show it to you once i get back home. And no we were not. And if you would actualy watched some of the streamers or top end raiders they also died lot during leveling.

I pull freaking rare mob in BFA and he hits me for like 3% hp. I pull rare or elite mob in classic and i die in 4 hits.

I strongly disagree with this. At least, if blizzard is going to continue its current trend of raids being climaxes and major story moments of the main story.

If raids were say side stories, that would be another matter. But if you're going to have the story begin and build through casual quests and dungeons, organized raiding should not be required to see how it ends.

Maybe there isn't a big enough gap between lfr and normal. If that's the case then maybe the difficulty needs to be adjusted. But unless the game's general story structure changes, I'm against taking away lfr entirely. Though I didn't mind when lfr didn't have class sets. (A moot point now anyway.)

[rohoz]

I strongly disagree with this. At least, if blizzard is going to continue its current trend of raids being climaxes and major story moments of the main story.

If raids were say side stories, that would be another matter. But if you're going to have the story begin and build through casual quests and dungeons, organized raiding should not be required to see how it ends.

Maybe there isn't a big enough gap between lfr and normal. If that's the case then maybe the difficulty needs to be adjusted. But unless the game's general story structure changes, I'm against taking away lfr entirely. Though I didn't mind when lfr didn't have class sets. (A moot point now anyway.)

the story was 100% always in the raid lol

like, were you asleep during the ahn'qiraj thing? what about lady prestor and her brother (father). half of the quests in brd/burning steppes talk about the mad king of the iron dwarves and his pact with ragnaros.

[Florena]

the story was 100% always in the raid lol

like, were you asleep during the ahn'qiraj thing? what about lady prestor and her brother (father). half of the quests in brd/burning steppes talk about the mad king of the iron dwarves and his pact with ragnaros.

I didn't say this was a new development in recent expansions. I'd just rather keep the current status quo then go back to the old way unless they also change up the fact that raids thend to be big main story moments. If they were all say, largely disconnected like Kharazhan and Zul'aman in BC I wouldn't mind going back to one organized raiding difficulty. but as is, no thanks. I know that's how it used to be, I'd just rather not go back to that.

[SirCowdog]

According to your logic, tons of games are mmorpgs. Even game like Elite: Dangerous. You can play a role as well in it. See how stupid it is?

Why is a broad definition covering a lot of games "stupid"?

Maybe instead you should explain why you don't think something like Elite Dangerous falls into the definition. Or maybe explain what you think a MMORPG actually is instead of just calling other people's opinions "stupid" without actually providing any supporting arguments.

[unbound]

So the myth that Classic would implode into nothingness after a month has fallen apart. If anything, for a Thursday night, the servers are a bit more crowded than normal.

I've heard 2 and 3 month predictions. So I guess I'll pop back when that timeframe happens.

[rohoz]

So the myth that Classic would implode into nothingness after a month has fallen apart. If anything, for a Thursday night, the servers are a bit more crowded than normal.

I've heard 2 and 3 month predictions. So I guess I'll pop back when that timeframe happens.

layers are down on most servers because the curiosity is over. a lot of "casuals" (read: gamerdads) aren't 60 yet so yeah

[Costa]

I agree with the 1st point, but the talent system is 100000% better than the crap that is on live lol. To make live better for me straight away is just import Classic talent system into it and i would be happy haha.

[shuubu]

Wish people would just let the vanilla crowd be. All the flaws and erronous conceptions of classic are well known, but some people still like it nonetheless. Just let them be.

[Improtaight]

i agree with most points, i dont agree with the fact that the current talent crap is better than the old talent tree.
u dont have any sense of "hooray i lvled up!" with the current state, u got a talent (sometimes useless) every 15-20 lvls? its crazy, and boring.

[Somewhatconcerned]

classic is way more casual than retail... i don't understand how anyone can think otherwise.


retail is more alt friendly in regards to 1-120 vs classic 1-60. 1-120 on retail for a fresh account with no wod or bfa flying, no gold for heirlooms, etc, does take pretty close to the ~4-5 days that 1-60 takes in classic.

but there is nothing to do at 60.


MC/ony have no gear requirements, so if you hit 60 and did most of your dungeon quests and quests in 50+ zones, and maybe spend a small amount of gold on BoEs that will be all you need.

mc takes a whole 4 hours to clear with a pug and it takes longer to get to ony as alliance than it does to clear the place. there are no raid mechanics in most of MC, and ony has about 2 simple mechanics. it takes one afternoon to get attuned to onyxia.


all of the raids beyond tier 1 are relatively simple compared to any raid released since wotlk.


it is not overly difficult to hit 60 and already have enough gold to buy epic mount. that is the only gold sink that really exist. there are no stupid good BoE epics to craft or buy, consumables are not required, either.

there is not much theory crafting in terms of dps and classic has the simplest rotation out of any expansions.


its a simple game but there is nothing wrong with that.

Great post.

As I've said before, Classic was tailor made for the clickers, back pedalers, and the people who get overwhelmed by having to do a few dailies or what have you.

[Granyala]

i agree with most points, i dont agree with the fact that the current talent crap is better than the old talent tree.
u dont have any sense of "hooray i lvled up!" with the current state

Uuh neither do I have that in Classic despite getting to click something that gives some single digit % based improvement I don't notice.
Also I always find it kinda confusing when people go all "grats" on every friggin level as if it meant sth special. Dunno leveling is a byproduct of playing the game, the only ding that actually interests me is the max level ding because it opens a lot of content (in live, not classic).

[facefist]

Biggest myth was: classic dungeons are hard, you must use CC or wipe etc. In reality they are easier than normal mythics in retail

[Improtaight]

Uuh neither do I have that in Classic despite getting to click something that gives some single digit % based improvement I don't notice.
Also I always find it kinda confusing when people go all "grats" on every friggin level as if it meant sth special. Dunno leveling is a byproduct of playing the game, the only ding that actually interests me is the max level ding because it opens a lot of content (in live, not classic).

i guess its also a matter of personal opinion then.
i'm playing classic, not hardcore, just lvling when i have time... it really makes a difference when u lvl up, every level feels powerful, some talents are static but in most cases u feel the change, at lesat i do.

[d00mh4cker]

That the game was hardcore and difficult.

Molten Core was recently cleared under 18 minutes. The most difficult content takes 18 minutes to clear.
Meme.

[Specialka]

Why is a broad definition covering a lot of games "stupid"?

Maybe instead you should explain why you don't think something like Elite Dangerous falls into the definition. Or maybe explain what you think a MMORPG actually is instead of just calling other people's opinions "stupid" without actually providing any supporting arguments.

Why should I waste my time trying to explain something so simple? According to you, even CS;GO is a mmorpg. You can play a role of Terrorist or Counter-Terrorist. Like seriously?

[Caliph]

That the game was hardcore and difficult.

Molten Core was recently cleared under 18 minutes. The most difficult content takes 18 minutes to clear.
Meme.

it takes 18 mins to run from place to place. to spout non sense. If it was rag in 18 mins then fine. but don't make stuff up

[SirCowdog]

Why should I waste my time trying to explain something so simple? According to you, even CS;GO is a mmorpg. You can play a role of Terrorist or Counter-Terrorist. Like seriously?

Because the burden of proof lies with the person making a claim. If you can't defend point that you bring up, your opinion is effectively worthless. Your opinion is even less credible when you claim to not want to waste your time backing up your opinion, but wasted your time making not one, but two posts with no point.

But let me go ahead and make some educated guesses, based on your responses: You think an MMORPG should only be a game with a large persistent world, classes set by the game, and perhaps raids or dungeons of some kind. You probably also enjoy making the tired joke of "WoW was the first MMO".

Regardless, as I said in an earlier post: Even if we rule out Path of Exile because it doesn't fit the narrow definition of an MMO that people seem to like, the other three examples I gave still fit the bill. Do you even have an opinion on the original question about the Trinity of Tank/DPS/Heal? Or would that be a waste of your time too? :/

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Also I always find it kinda confusing when people go all "grats" on every friggin level as if it meant sth special. Dunno leveling is a byproduct of playing the game, the only ding that actually interests me is the max level ding because it opens a lot of content (in live, not classic).

It's a tradition of recognizing that leveling in Vanilla/Classic is a significant investment of time, and attaining a new level is both a payoff in terms of talent points and such, and one step closer to reaching 60. When getting to 60 takes the average person several weeks of logging in and playing each day, every ding is to be celebrated.

Maybe it's not a tradition for everyone. I know I personally don't care much about birthdays in real life(which is a similar celebration), but a lot of people do.

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Biggest myth was: classic dungeons are hard, you must use CC or wipe etc. In reality they are easier than normal mythics in retail

IIRC the "dungeons are hard" and "must use CC or wipe" didn't really kick in until TBC. Maybe people are getting confused about that?

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it takes 18 mins to run from place to place. to spout non sense. If it was rag in 18 mins then fine. but don't make stuff up

Lots of buffs, ridiculous OP raid comp full of cleaving warriors and rogues, clearly a highly skilled and practiced group. But this is VERY not normal. This is what 10+ years of private servers refining techniques and strategies looks like, and should not be mistaken for a representation of what the average MC raid would actually be to regular players.

Of note, the timer is from first boss pull to last boss kill, not from entering the dungeons. Which is apparently how speed-runs are timed in general.

[Specialka]

Poe is a hack and slash, a.k.a diablo-like (though now the diablo series has lots is shine thx to D3).

Now I have to back up claim my claim about the definition of mmorpg lile seriously? The first mmorpgs were most probably things like the 4th prophecy, ultima online, ragnarok online and such, and I probably forgot some.

And yes, Eve is a mmo, but if you think that it is a rpg like wow, ff14 or even gw2, good for you. Won't waste my time with you.

[SirCowdog]

Poe is a hack and slash, a.k.a diablo-like (though now the diablo series has lots is shine thx to D3).

Now I have to back up claim my claim about the definition of mmorpg lile seriously? The first mmorpgs were most probably things like the 4th prophecy, ultima online, ragnarok online and such, and I probably forgot some.

And yes, Eve is a mmo, but if you think that it is a rpg like wow, ff14 or even gw2, good for you. Won't waste my time with you.

/facepalm


Ok...you didn't actually make any points. All you did was state some irrelevant facts.

HOW does POE being a "hack and slash" disqualify it from also being an MMORPG? As I said before: It's Massive. It's multiplayer. It's online. And it's an RPG. Does one style of combat in an MMORPG somehow disqualify it because it doesn't copy/past the same combat as WoW, like every other lazy MMO on the market?

How does the listing the "first" MMORPGs from nearly 20 years ago bear any relevance to the definition of a modern MMORPG? Are you using this as a basis to define the genre, as though the genre hasn't evolved in that time? If that's the case, then you should say so and we can go from there.

I never claimed EVE online was an "RPG like WoW, FF14, or GW2". In fact the entire point of listing EVE online is specifically because it's NOT like those games. Remember the initial point of contention was if an MMO could be done without the Trinity. If you want to limit the definition of MMOs to only fantasy RPGs that use a WoW-like formula, then you should say so instead of STILL avoiding making a clear statement of what you believe an MMORPG is.

Maybe you're just not good at articulating your points. Maybe you've never had to actually defend your beliefs by using actual facts and supporting arguments. But so far all you're doing is spouting meaningless sentences that don't actually support your position.

I don't have high expectations. This entire discussion about what constitutes a MMORPG is pointless, anyway. Unless you have something significant to add, we're done here.

[Specialka]

/shrug whatever buddy.