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  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by Sanstos View Post
    Right. I get that. Thats not what I asked...

    The question is, THEN what? Again, you clear every instance, you have ALL the gear you want over several YEARS of playing Classic.

    Is that it? It just becomes a frozen state where pretty much everyone who has been playing for years is fully geared out?
    Did you ignore the other people who commented before you instead of this one guy? They all want the never going to exist Classic+ experience.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Velerios View Post
    Vanilla didn't had the "big baddie"
    Nefarian, Kel'Thuzad, C'Thun... what do you mean?

  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by Sanstos View Post
    Okay so I need some help here. Couple of threads now talking about how Blizzard will be stupid to release BC as an xpac on top of Classic.

    I dont understand whats so stupid about it. People want the "Classic experience", sure. But then what?

    Like is everyone on the server just going to farm the same instances over and over, and be geared to the teeth, just to do what? Run around in your awesome gear and kill the same things that you pretty much have on farm and have no use for since you already own every piece?

    I guess what im asking is, whats the end game? What am I not seeing?

    We level up, we raid, we are full geared... Alts? Whats next?
    People are tossing out opinions. Some vocal people don't want BC. But I'd put good money on TBC being announced at Blizzcon this year.

  3. #183
    I think its partly fear of missing out. Blizzard has two options for a BC release. Either they progress classic realms to the BC expansion. Or they launch a third version of wow, further fragmenting their player base. Personally I would like a standalone BC with the option of copying your characters one-way to the BC realms from the classic realms. That way we will always have Classic, instead of losing classic in 2 years, assuming the phases roll out roughly every 4 months, which isn't to much of a stretch.

    If they go the split route, I would like to see a Legacy Realms subscription. That way, those games can get the support they need without burdening retail.

  4. #184
    Quote Originally Posted by Monteverdi View Post
    People are tossing out opinions. Some vocal people don't want BC. But I'd put good money on TBC being announced at Blizzcon this year.
    I say they will announce it at Blizzcon next year. The WoW plate is already more then full with the next expansion.
    Maybe they will give us the phase release schedule of Classic, that would be nice. As an Alliance on Herod, im a bit afraid of what the world will look like during phase 2 with honor but no BG. I really hope it wont last more then 4-6 weeks.

  5. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanstos View Post
    Right. I get that. Thats not what I asked...

    The question is, THEN what? Again, you clear every instance, you have ALL the gear you want over several YEARS of playing Classic.

    Is that it? It just becomes a frozen state where pretty much everyone who has been playing for years is fully geared out?
    Sure! Why not? A lot of people just want that! Been players on classic only realms for years…
    Not sure if I'm a good guy but I'm working hard on it...

  6. #186
    OP, what you're talking about is a progression server. If Blizz wants to be smart, what they would do is release the progression server independently of the Classic server and just give people the ability to copy their characters over from Classic. Win-win, the Classic experience is left untouched and BC can happen as intended while people aren't having to level through vanilla content over and over.

  7. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akibaboy View Post
    I think there's an even more elegant solution that would emulate the expansion release experience - server duplication. For example, on TBC launch day you'd get:
    Server
    Faerlina - Classic
    Faerlina - TBC Classic

    TBC Classic is a 100% copy of the prior server with characters, gold, etc. - a snapshot of the server the day of launch, but then would divert out from there. The two remain completely separate from that point on.

    Why do it that way? Simply because that's how the launch of TBC was. You weren't copying over characters or transferring to new servers trying to get your name, hoping that your guild master also transferred so the guild was intact, your AH items still existed, and other weird interactions of a character copy... you just logged in and everything was exactly the same except you were playing TBC now.
    Exactly this! I want the option to play classic OR tbc on seperate servers with the same copied character.
    Not sure if I'm a good guy but I'm working hard on it...

  8. #188
    What is wrong with keeping Classic as it is forever? Some of the private servers had been around for 15 years. Just keep it vanilla. If people rush to 60, get BiS within 3 weeks that is their problem.

  9. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by Fred Skinner View Post
    Well, probably classic should stay as it is, but if blizzard adds TBC realms, you should have the chance to copy your classic char to it.
    No, it should be a hard decision to move to the next expansion, no copy only transfers. This helps keep the server population healthier as to not have flip floppers.
    Lead Game Designer

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  10. #190
    TBC is NOT classic, the design is different. I play classic for the design, TBC would ruin it. If the release TBC tons of people that want classic would quit and some will just go back to private servers.

  11. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by Ragedaug View Post
    For your first point I would add that to reducing the frustration of classic. I don't think it's a game changer to add Green's to quest rewards.
    I think it is a rather big change.

    In Classic, you didn't get any decent gear by just questing, so you had to enter dungeons in order to get decent rewards from quests or drops themselves.
    In TBC, the gear from questing was already decent enough.

    I still remember that i practically skipped all low level dungeons past Ramparts / Blood furnace, as i didn't feel it was worth the time, especially as most of the items that i had were "good enough" already.
    Due to quests also being designed in a more efficient manner, running dungeons wasn't exactly superior in terms of XP compared to questing, unless you could speedrun them.

    I think doing dungeons while leveling was an important aspect, taught people the ropes of the endgame that lied ahead, someone who went from 1-70 without doing any dungeons suddenly had to learn the very basics of 5man party.
    Whereas in Classic, you were confronted with this early on, because dungeons were rather important unless you played a class that excelled at solo leveling.

    TBC turned the questing experience into a "just get to 58 ASAP" because Outland questing was so much more rewarding and efficient than Vanilla.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ragedaug View Post
    While this was the XPac where arenas were introduce, we didn't see PVP balanced around them until later. There were many classes & specs that were completely broken in arenas during TBC, that were either very overpowered, or hardly worked at all in the arena.
    The more fitting description would be that Blizzard didn't bother to balance PvP at all.
    It's not like Blizzard made changes that made sense for a BG setting but nonsense for Arena, they just didn't do anything on that front.

    However, based on the fact that Arena both yielded the best PvP gear (even so far that buying the weapon / shoulders required a rating) and awarded titles & Mount on top of that, showed that Blizzard wanted to push PvP players towards Arena.

    Battlegrounds went from the "real deal" to the place where you farmed honor for catchup gear and badges for offset pieces.
    Like seriously, Random BG's in TBC were infested with utterly undergeared people that just wanted to jump from greens to gladiator gear and Honorbots.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ragedaug View Post
    I know there were a lot of changes, but overall, TBC still had a lot of what we like from Vanilla and with the comparatively few things we see now that have completely changed WoW in the time since, TBC is still close to Vanilla.
    I disagree.
    The overall gameplay and reward structure was still similar, that's what makes a lot of people say that, but it changed a lot of other aspects and set up changes with heavy implications down the line.
    Last edited by Kralljin; 2019-09-24 at 03:45 PM.

  12. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by Unholyground View Post
    No, it should be a hard decision to move to the next expansion, no copy only transfers. This helps keep the server population healthier as to not have flip floppers.
    Well, without flip floppers classic would not have been successfull. Or do you think more than 1% who created a char will stay?
    Rinse and repeat. For the rewards. Send even more turtles into the water.

  13. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by Fred Skinner View Post
    Well, without flip floppers classic would not have been successfull. Or do you think more than 1% who created a char will stay?
    Well it all depends when they decide to do Classic+
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  14. #194
    I think a lot of people would like to re-live the expansion they started in, so while Vanilla is #1, there are plenty of people interested in at least BC and WOTLK, and all three are/were very popular in the not-public-server-world.

    If they do BC I'd do something like create new BC servers and have the option whether you want your character to (irreversibly) transfer from Classic to Classic-BC etc. Then people can decide how they want to progress.

    But at some point when they're announcing the availability of Classic-BfA servers you would have to consider that things have gone too far

    I REALLY don't think you'll see new original development in the Classic world at this point. It's just too much money and Blizzard already thinks they made things better with every release. At best you might see a future Retail expansion swing back in the direction of those aspects of vanilla that everyone now recognizes as having been superior.

  15. #195
    Quote Originally Posted by Unholyground View Post
    Well it all depends when they decide to do Classic+
    WoW Classic plus+ Patch 2.0: Revenge of the Zhevras
    WoW Classic plus+ Patch 3.0: Mists of Moonsabers
    WoW Classic plus+ Patch 4.0: Return of Onyxia
    Rinse and repeat. For the rewards. Send even more turtles into the water.

  16. #196
    Quote Originally Posted by Akibaboy View Post
    I think there's an even more elegant solution that would emulate the expansion release experience - server duplication. For example, on TBC launch day you'd get:
    Server
    Faerlina - Classic
    Faerlina - TBC Classic

    TBC Classic is a 100% copy of the prior server with characters, gold, etc. - a snapshot of the server the day of launch, but then would divert out from there. The two remain completely separate from that point on.

    Why do it that way? Simply because that's how the launch of TBC was. You weren't copying over characters or transferring to new servers trying to get your name, hoping that your guild master also transferred so the guild was intact, your AH items still existed, and other weird interactions of a character copy... you just logged in and everything was exactly the same except you were playing TBC now.
    I don't disagree necessarily, but I think it would fall somewhere in the middle - character copies with prio for your duped server, for instance - perhaps a stipulation that servers without enough people signed up to transfer get merged. Too much overhead to just automatically copy every character created during classic.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    Nah nah, see... I live by one simple creed: You might catch more flies with honey, but to catch honeys you gotta be fly.

  17. #197
    I don't want to be forced to have my classic characters pushed into post vanilla content. If it was opt in to COPY classic characters to a C+/BC realm, I'd consider it.
    Bandwagon sports fans can eat a bag of http://www.ddir.com/ .

  18. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by Velerios View Post
    As said before: we could have a different timeline. Not idiotic different timeline that we had in WoD when we travel back in the past through a stupid time-change of the dark portal aka it's magic, no, simply a timeline where the Portal does not open, instead different things happen.
    Ahh, so this time they'll do multiverse correctly. Gotcha. Yeah, I don't have as much faith as you have. Time Travel and Multiverse always screw with lore.


    Quote Originally Posted by Velerios View Post
    Also we don't need always the "big threats" we had in the upcoming expansions, Vanilla didn't had the "big baddie" too, so why should we need it here. South sea expansion was always something people wanted to see, but i doubt we will see something like this on retail where we are the big bad champion. In an classic+-timeline we could avoid this, instead we will still be the adventurer, so let us adventure something. Or open the dark portal to a complete different location, not draenor. Or maybe a continent behind the forbidding Sea where we could have tons of new content.
    So after we have shown ourselves to be able to defeat the greatest known threat in the world, we then progress to fighting some scrubs...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Dundebuns View Post
    You split your customer base. The more diluted an MMO gets, the less viable it becomes.
    We are already split. There's literally no connection between Classic servers. Furthermore, as people stop playing Classic Vanilla, servers will get smaller and eventually consolidated. That will happen without Classic TBC. But when that does happen, they can release Classic TBC and folks will jump back in like they are doing now with Classic Vanilla.

    "Take the time to sit down and talk with your adversaries. You will learn something, and they will learn something from you. When two enemies are talking, they are not fighting. It's when the talking ceases that the ground becomes fertile for violence. So keep the conversation going."
    ~ Daryl Davis

  19. #199
    Releasing tBC's content is fine.

    Updating the systems and design philosophy to tBC is not.

    That means:
    Every single thing added except the landmass itself should be kept out - including increased level.
    - No arenas
    - No new abilities
    - No core class changes
    - No flying (that's a big one!)
    - No heroic dungeons (retune existing dungeons to be harder - they are now extending level 60 content)
    - 40-man and 20-man raids instead
    The content will have to be retuned for Classic.
    Ensure that the old world is still completely relevant and viable, that is do not make Outland give excessive amounts of XP per hour and do not let the gear completely eclipse anything from Azeroth.
    Make adjustments to keep the game philosophically in line with Classic:
    - Remove the portals from Shattrath and add an Auction House that is separate from the others. (No portals! Important aspect of Classic)
    - Make sure it's possible to get to all instances and content without a flying mount. Use gnomish/goblin teleporters
    - Remove flying mounts, and Netherwing Ledge, Shagri'la, Elemental Plateau, etc. with it.
    - Remove dailies
    - Merge dungeon wings together (to the extent it is possible)
    - Remove dungeon lockouts
    - Karazhan on a 3 day lockout

    Etc.
    Basically, take all the systems advancements and just drop them. Retune the content to the systems of Classic. Remove content that won't fit.

  20. #200
    Quote Originally Posted by Unholyground View Post
    No, it should be a hard decision to move to the next expansion, no copy only transfers. This helps keep the server population healthier as to not have flip floppers.
    To me, this makes the most sense. C TBC on it's own. C Vanilla on it's own. Your characters will live on in C Vanilla whenever you want to log in and play them. TBC characters should start from scratch. Everyone has a level playing field, especially considering a lot of folks changed the class they played in BC based on the changes, and you can't transfer Ally Shaman or Horde Paladin.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ishayu View Post
    Releasing tBC's content is fine.

    Updating the systems and design philosophy to tBC is not.

    That means:
    Every single thing added except the landmass itself should be kept out - including increased level.
    - No arenas
    - No new abilities
    - No core class changes
    - No flying (that's a big one!)
    - No heroic dungeons (retune existing dungeons to be harder - they are now extending level 60 content)
    - 40-man and 20-man raids instead
    The content will have to be retuned for Classic.
    Ensure that the old world is still completely relevant and viable, that is do not make Outland give excessive amounts of XP per hour and do not let the gear completely eclipse anything from Azeroth.
    Make adjustments to keep the game philosophically in line with Classic:
    - Remove the portals from Shattrath and add an Auction House that is separate from the others. (No portals! Important aspect of Classic)
    - Make sure it's possible to get to all instances and content without a flying mount. Use gnomish/goblin teleporters
    - Remove flying mounts, and Netherwing Ledge, Shagri'la, Elemental Plateau, etc. with it.
    - Remove dailies.

    Etc.
    Basically, take all the systems advancements and just drop them. Retune the content to the systems of Classic. Remove content that won't fit.
    Sounds to me like you would prefer to just stay on Classic Vanilla servers, which is fine. Don't try to ruin Classic TBC for those of us who liked it, and I promise not to recommend they ruin Classic Vanilla.

    "Take the time to sit down and talk with your adversaries. You will learn something, and they will learn something from you. When two enemies are talking, they are not fighting. It's when the talking ceases that the ground becomes fertile for violence. So keep the conversation going."
    ~ Daryl Davis

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