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  1. #41
    I've only really played Demo this expansion so I would like to see the following:

    1. Axe-toss as an actual interrupt.

    2. Reconsider our AOE. Implosion is a very cool spell. Being able to cast it a single time as your only AOE (before rebuilding) is lame. There are very few classes where your AOE takes so much time to setup and relies so heavily on preparation. I would be OK with the blight bomber spell being our reskinned Rain of Fire. Basically any AOE that doesn't involve crippling your sustained damage to pull off.

    3. The Demo rotation doesn't ever have big payoffs. You build a small number of shards to summon a small number of imps or your dogs. The spec is textbook builder/spender, but you aren't spending your shards in fun ways.

  2. #42
    The Unstoppable Force Gaidax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shandalar View Post
    That's supposed to be bad, cupcake?

    *shakes head*

  3. #43
    Herald of the Titans enigma77's Avatar
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    Too much to mention.

    The talents need to be scrapped entirely, we should play Warlocks again, not Affliction, Destruction or Demonology.

    Things like Chaosbolt, Unstable Affliction or Incinerate should be talents, and a Warlock specialized into Destruction should still use Corruption and Curse of Agony. Likewise an Affliction Warlock should still have access to Rain of Fire. Soul Shards should be a bar we fill up by draining shit. Instead of having items put into our inventory, we fill up the bar.
    Last edited by enigma77; 2019-10-03 at 12:42 AM.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by enigma77 View Post
    Too much to mention.

    The talents need to be scrapped entirely, we should play Warlocks again, not Affliction, Destruction or Demonology.

    Things like Chaosbolt, Unstable Affliction or Incinerate should be talents, and a Warlock specialized into Destruction should still use Corruption and Curse of Agony. Likewise an Affliction Warlock should still have access to Rain of Fire. Soul Shards should be a bar we fill up by draining shit. Instead of having items put into our inventory, we fill up the bar.
    idk if destro getting corruption or curse of agony back would improve it in any way. In fact, it might make it worse. I'm all for restoring class identity, but stuff like corruption and agony in destruction just screams button bloat. It would probably do shit damage, and likely have little to 0 synergy with the spec. Unless if you want it to return for flavor reasons, or to break stealthies. But to actually be used in a dps rotation, I don't think so.

  5. #45
    Herald of the Titans PickleballAce's Avatar
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    Yeah, I'd really like to go back to the glory days of Cataclysm where every Lock spec was balanced around the exact same half-dozen dots and none of them had any burst because of it except for the Two-Minute-Hero Demonology (which still didn't burst that hard anyway).
    Last edited by PickleballAce; 2019-10-03 at 04:33 AM.

  6. #46
    Bring back BC-MoP Warlocks.

    Warlocks went from my favourite class to least favourite this expansion. It's horribly boring to play

  7. #47
    The Unstoppable Force Gaidax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by enigma77 View Post
    Too much to mention.

    The talents need to be scrapped entirely, we should play Warlocks again, not Affliction, Destruction or Demonology.

    Things like Chaosbolt, Unstable Affliction or Incinerate should be talents, and a Warlock specialized into Destruction should still use Corruption and Curse of Agony. Likewise an Affliction Warlock should still have access to Rain of Fire. Soul Shards should be a bar we fill up by draining shit. Instead of having items put into our inventory, we fill up the bar.
    One of the biggest things MoP did for Warlocks (and many other classes) is finally sorting out the trash that gathered up as a result of several expansions of adding random shit to a giant pool of shit.

    No, it's fine to have 3 specs that use spec unique arsenal of spells as opposed to a random soup of abilities we had in Cataclysm.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Th3Scourge View Post
    Bring back BC-MoP Warlocks.

    Warlocks went from my favourite class to least favourite this expansion. It's horribly boring to play
    "Warlocks are horribly boring to play" - Th3Scourge
    "Bring back TBC Warlock" - also Th3Scourge

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

  8. #48
    No talk of soulburn and non dps options? In mop, demonology had demon form that allowed them a ton of utility and complex shifts in the rotation, but affliction's soulburn was the real gem. It gave you non dmg options to use your resources on. Stuff like a massive health funnel to the pet, 50% spewd after demonic circle port, bigger heal from drain life. Really fun stuff for leveling, pvp and outdoors.

    It added complexity and options without being hard to understand, it was fun, and it was only a single button on the action bars which simply modified other spells. Something like that is sorely needed, and no reason it had to go. Demon form for demo was also great, even if the form itself was stolen by demon hunters, we can still have parts of the demo kit that use shards for utility, maybe temporary armor cd vs melee pvp?

    In more mundane issues:fix afflic aoe. Maybe have seed instant and cost two shards, and have another 2 sec one shard cast that applies agony to all corruption targets. That way we have some weak burst for dungeons, and solid aoe over time which relates to our dots.

    Fix afflic pvp, give us instant ways to use soulshards for when we're trained by melee (3 shards instant application of ua and all base dots and siphon, maybe with short cd, obviously making it inefficent, but better than nothing). Make it so being trained isnt a death sentence, but a challenge to overcome with your team. Also bring back 1 gcd for dots.

  9. #49
    Herald of the Titans enigma77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    One of the biggest things MoP did for Warlocks (and many other classes) is finally sorting out the trash that gathered up as a result of several expansions of adding random shit to a giant pool of shit.

    No, it's fine to have 3 specs that use spec unique arsenal of spells as opposed to a random soup of abilities we had in Cataclysm.

    - - - Updated - - -



    "Warlocks are horribly boring to play" - Th3Scourge
    "Bring back TBC Warlock" - also Th3Scourge

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    The 'trash' in many instances made the class feel complete and fun.

    Hellfire, Rain of Fire are iconic warlock abilities, so are curses and dots. Just because you throw fire instead of shadow doesn't mean you should not have access to Curses and shadow based abilities.

    I did not play Lock in Cataclysm, but I play it in Classic and I used to play it in BC.

    I must honestly say, I enjoy my warlock more in Classic than in BFA or Legion by a considerable margin. I feel like a Warlock, not like an Affliction. I like that my specializations merely make me more powerful in a specific way, rather than totally replacing my abilities. As a warlock with the typical Destro build you still use your dots if you can. If you go for an Affliction build (SM/RUIN) you still have all your Destruction ablilities and will still use Hellfire and/or Rain of Fire and Immolate, if you can. If you go for a demo heavy build (SL PVP) you still use Immolate and all your Affliction debuffs.

    You never stop being a warlock, you simply become more of one particular kind of warlock. In retail if I go for a destro build my character somehow forgets all his other abilities, even though they would come in quite handy. For example, Destro would feel much better in my opinion if I had more than just one debuff. Affliction would feel much better if I had Immolate as well and Rain of Fire/Hellfire for aoe. And don't get me started on all the utility spells they either removed or gave to one spec only. Death Coil and Demonic Circle are baseline abilities. Or at least they should be. What happened to our curses? Why are most of our utility spells limited to pvp and even then you have to choose between them? Why is an ability that Warlocks know at lvl 1 in Vanilla a pvp talent (Demon armor) ?

    The class design is an abomination that needs to be purged in fel fire. And they should start by removing specializations and the current talent trees, because I should play a Warlock, not a Demonology or Destruction or Affliction. And a Warlock doesn't forget how to afflict his enemy with curses while throwing fire at them!
    Last edited by enigma77; 2019-10-03 at 02:12 PM.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    One of the biggest things MoP did for Warlocks (and many other classes) is finally sorting out the trash that gathered up as a result of several expansions of adding random shit to a giant pool of shit.

    No, it's fine to have 3 specs that use spec unique arsenal of spells as opposed to a random soup of abilities we had in Cataclysm.

    - - - Updated - - -



    "Warlocks are horribly boring to play" - Th3Scourge
    "Bring back TBC Warlock" - also Th3Scourge

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    Yes. SB Spam was more engaging than the current iteration. That's saying a lot.

    There was also a life tap in there every now and then. Bring back that too

  11. #51
    The Unstoppable Force Gaidax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Th3Scourge View Post
    Yes. SB Spam was more engaging than the current iteration. That's saying a lot.

    There was also a life tap in there every now and then. Bring back that too
    KK breh, spamming "4" (or "3") more engaging than current Destruction, cool meme.

    Also if you don't remember we had Life Tap last expansion and people were not excited about it.

  12. #52
    Life Tap sucks, IMO. Should have been gone since forever ago. At best it added some flavor, at worst we were balanced arround it and it was so annoying to have talents balanced arround it or designed arround it.

    It was one of the best things about current Warlock to see Life Tap gone.

    As for the "Class design, not spec design". I disagree to some extent. I think we should have more mixed abilities, yes, but not for rotation. Demonic circle is a great example of skill that should be baseline again for all specs, another one could be some of the curses from the pvp talents. That means situational abilities could work, rotational I wouldn't like it.

    They did not went wrong with the specialization being very separated one from another, but they did it in a way that they can't design raids or dungeons to please every spec out there so a lot of them felt left in the dark, because the specs are waaay too niche right now, and I don't mean only warlocks.
    It's like you can see much more your weaknesses in play rather than your strenghts for each spec because there are so few encounters that suits it and because they are so apart from each other.

    A practical example would be afflic in most M+ (I really can't play it although I love it, and my IO is about 1900) and destro in Eternal Palace. The only fight I felt was destro friendly was orgozoa from the ones I did so far in Mythic. I'm sure council and Azshara also is but that's wayy too late into the raid tier.
    Thanks for the heads up!

  13. #53
    Herald of the Titans enigma77's Avatar
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    Lifetap is great in a game where mana matters.

  14. #54
    I just wish they'll revert demo locks to cataclysm version with meta, demon leap, carrion swarm, Hand of Guldan root, axe toss stun, demonic circle...and add an interrupt who isn't tied up to fel pup.

    I havn't touched my lock since legion when the smoldering ruin of this spec made finale when they removed meta and gave it to DH

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by enigma77 View Post
    Lifetap is great in a game where mana matters.
    For obvious reasons, yes. But for a long time we were the only ones to actually bother with mana management aside from arcane, and that is annoying. I don't think this design needs to come back also.
    Thanks for the heads up!

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    That's supposed to be bad, cupcake?

    *shakes head*
    Being the 10th of 13 classes is ok for you?

    "shakes head"

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    KK breh, spamming "4" (or "3") more engaging than current Destruction, cool meme.

    Also if you don't remember we had Life Tap last expansion and people were not excited about it.
    It was '2' for me. But really, how is the current 'builder-spender' playstyle of destro desirable?

    Yes, legion wasn't exactly peak class design either. Lifetap was pretty redundant at that point, and that's was a shame to have resources matter very little across the board.

  18. #58
    The Unstoppable Force Gaidax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Th3Scourge View Post
    It was '2' for me. But really, how is the current 'builder-spender' playstyle of destro desirable?
    You press more than one button.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Shandalar View Post
    Being the 10th of 13 classes is ok for you?

    "shakes head"
    If you are a 50% scrub that is...

    At my level it looks like this: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/st.../23#dataset=90

    L2P.

  19. #59
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    i wanted MOP back, but since its not possible..

    overall, i would like better demons, the same dumb ones for years get rly boring, we saw so many lately, we could get more glyphs or a hunter-like thing where you can catch demons, i would not mind they having the same skills, think by now my warlock could summon a pit fiend fine

    Loved the grimoire talents from mop, loved summon the infernal as permanent pet.

    Wish more fire talents for Demon, so i can finally get more use from the code of xerrath, change demonbolt to soulfire for me would be awesome, would like if the demons didn't de-spawn in a blink of way too

  20. #60
    The Choice of actual gun sounds for my hunter, since they fucked up sound mods for it and it currently sounds like a peashooter. Updated visuals for said hunter; BM and MM in particular. BM Plays kinda fine in my opinion, it's not super hard, but has optimization gameplay to work with. MM could use some more love and gameplay changes, it's a little too simple.

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