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  1. #261
    Quote Originally Posted by Thereturn View Post
    Everywhere you look its people asking for mage aoe or cleave comp or ridiculous level requirements, like 46+ for things like ZF.

    The result of years worth creating a playerbase with a "400ilvl minimum for a mythic +1 zerg derp" mentality.

    And yes, i know i can make my own groups. Who cares. Its about retail mentality seeping into classic, which sucks balls.

    Thoughts?
    ZF boss is 48. Wanting 46, while not required sure, is not rediculous. At all.

  2. #262
    Quote Originally Posted by Thereturn View Post
    Everywhere you look its people asking for mage aoe or cleave comp or ridiculous level requirements, like 46+ for things like ZF.

    The result of years worth creating a playerbase with a "400ilvl minimum for a mythic +1 zerg derp" mentality.

    And yes, i know i can make my own groups. Who cares. Its about retail mentality seeping into classic, which sucks balls.

    Thoughts?
    Haha. Oh, this is actually funny.
    But hey, we actually found out that you can sell runs at max level for quite a bit. Mages are awesome, I hardly have tank at all. Its like retail but easier.

  3. #263
    Tbh I'm one of the mages that do quad mage runs with a priest or a shaman. I hated mythic +. At the same time I hate waiting hours for a tank when I know theres a steady stream of talented mages.

    If I'm smart enough to do it efficiently I'm going to. It just works really well and suits my needs. If a mage drops, I'm able to quickly find a replacement to keep running.

    I'm specifically looking for mages though, so I mean it shouldnt affect your runs really. You still wait for a tank, can find your own groups and can run your own groups. If anything it's leaving a lot of the tanks for you guys. Should be more groups for everyone else.

  4. #264
    Quote Originally Posted by Tonus View Post
    The worst part about general and lfg chat on my server is the people trying to recreate the community "as it was". Every once in a while someone posts in general chat about a ninja asking that people ignore "cause in vanilla ninjaing got you blacklisted" which is bullshit, especially when talking about a silly level 35 Scarlet Monastery item.

    Then there's the debate about rolling need when an item is higher level than you can currently equip, and it immediately goes into "Well in vanilla blah blah blah".

    The vanilla community developed organically, and I wish people would let that happen in classic instead of trying to force everyone to try to match their memories of 15 years ago.
    Fully agreed

  5. #265
    As a classic tank I create my own groups. Looking for a SM library group one DPS said to find "cleave" what the hell does that even mean. I just rolled my eyes and ignored him.

  6. #266
    Quote Originally Posted by Thereturn View Post
    Everywhere you look its people asking for mage aoe or cleave comp or ridiculous level requirements, like 46+ for things like ZF.

    The result of years worth creating a playerbase with a "400ilvl minimum for a mythic +1 zerg derp" mentality.

    And yes, i know i can make my own groups. Who cares. Its about retail mentality seeping into classic, which sucks balls.

    Thoughts?
    I agree the cleave groups have had a detrimental impact on the game... moreso on PvP servers than PvE... it has taken a decent number of people out of the world and put them in instances. Still, there is a plethora of people who do not participate in them... because they are enjoying the game.

    The thing is.. you can't stop it. People are gonna do what they want to do. I suspect they will get bored of Clasica and leave.. or maybe they will roll an alt and experience the way it should... that is.. if they are mature and disciplined enough to not always take the easy way.

    The ones who read the book instead of the Cliff Notes.

  7. #267
    If they would take the old retail off the shelves and redo it like they have with classic they would have a much better selling game world wide. Just Saying

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    Classic has made people see what it feels like to work for something and earn something not to have it given to them so easily.

  8. #268
    Quote Originally Posted by Wbell1956 View Post
    If they would take the old retail off the shelves and redo it like they have with classic they would have a much better selling game world wide. Just Saying

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    Classic has made people see what it feels like to work for something and earn something not to have it given to them so easily.
    Are you trying to say classic is hard?

  9. #269
    Quote Originally Posted by Maudib View Post
    I agree the cleave groups have had a detrimental impact on the game... moreso on PvP servers than PvE... it has taken a decent number of people out of the world and put them in instances. Still, there is a plethora of people who do not participate in them... because they are enjoying the game.

    The thing is.. you can't stop it. People are gonna do what they want to do. I suspect they will get bored of Clasica and leave.. or maybe they will roll an alt and experience the way it should... that is.. if they are mature and disciplined enough to not always take the easy way.

    The ones who read the book instead of the Cliff Notes.
    Why are some people so stuck with "people experiencing it THE RIGHT WAY"? Isn't vanilla famous for "I play the way I want with the build I want" ? Why would it mean, if they picked up fastest route, that they are not mature or disciplined? They might as well be very mature and very disciplined, because aoe grind for hours is not extremely fun for most, therefore requires discipline. Also it is smart way, because of all the drops, it's quite good source of income while overcoming competition and world dangers.

  10. #270
    Quote Originally Posted by Nobleshield View Post
    The main thing I'm noticing though is there's this entire "meta" that creeped out out of nowhere in the past month or so, when before it was never mentioned at all in any guide, forum, Reddit post or media as far back as has been able to tell. Not only this AOE cleave stuff but tanks going into dungeons and tanking with a 2H because they can (which apparently "was" how it was in 1.x from what people say, except there's no information stating that and in fact are stating the opposite).

    It's a bit hypocritical if you ask me. The #NoChanges crowd dogpiled and jumped on anyone who suggested things be different to accommodate the things we've learned, but somehow this underlying meta changes that popped up are fine and dandy despite being drastic changes to how things were known and expected to play out.

    It's just interesting how this came up out of nowhere, and has almost universally been accepted when nearly every piece of information from private servers beforehand said no such thing, yet somehow "everyone" knows that's the way it is. Something is fishy here and I'm not sure what, but there's not only a lot of misinformation being peddled around but a change in mindset that didn't seem to exist until the day Classic launched.
    You don't tank with a 2hander, you DW. Yes that has been a thing since vanilla. It is so mainstream you can find it in guides like icy viens. A shield gives you 8-12% physical damage resistance and access to occasional blocking, which isn't exactly very powerful in vanilla, and both are useless against spells. More damage = more threat. 8% less physical damage isn't going to keep you alive if the thing would get you low enough for it to matter in the first place. All dungeons can and should be tanked DW so long as you are not below the mobs level.
    Last edited by Firefall; 2019-09-21 at 07:46 PM.

  11. #271
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefall View Post
    You don't tank with a 2hander, you DW. Yes that has been a thing since vanilla. It is so mainstream you can find it in guides like icy viens. A shield gives you 8-12% physical damage resistance and access to occasional blocking, which isn't exactly very powerful in vanilla, and both are useless against spells. More damage = more threat. 8% less physical damage isn't going to keep you alive if the thing would get you low enough for it to matter in the first place. All dungeons can and should be tanked DW so long as you are not below the mobs level.
    it 100% hasn't been a thing since vanilla

    it's a pserver thing that leeched into the game, pirate server meta isn't vanilla meta.

    but sure, go off.

  12. #272
    Quote Originally Posted by Nobleshield View Post
    The main thing I'm noticing though is there's this entire "meta" that creeped out out of nowhere in the past month or so, when before it was never mentioned at all in any guide, forum, Reddit post or media as far back as has been able to tell. Not only this AOE cleave stuff but tanks going into dungeons and tanking with a 2H because they can (which apparently "was" how it was in 1.x from what people say, except there's no information stating that and in fact are stating the opposite).

    It's a bit hypocritical if you ask me. The #NoChanges crowd dogpiled and jumped on anyone who suggested things be different to accommodate the things we've learned, but somehow this underlying meta changes that popped up are fine and dandy despite being drastic changes to how things were known and expected to play out.

    It's just interesting how this came up out of nowhere, and has almost universally been accepted when nearly every piece of information from private servers beforehand said no such thing, yet somehow "everyone" knows that's the way it is. Something is fishy here and I'm not sure what, but there's not only a lot of misinformation being peddled around but a change in mindset that didn't seem to exist until the day Classic launched.
    When I played a warrior during Vanilla, I tanked in whatever way made the run go the easiest, often times that meant sword and board, but occasionally that meant with a two hander using sweeping strikes with whirlwind and cleave. I never did anything crazy difficult that way, but I would do the Onyxia escort solo (as in no healer, no cc) as a warrior with a Zin'Rok and a mix of MC/ZG gear.

    There’s a number of people yelling about how Classic is no changes, and it is the game we were asking for, and they’re right. Classic is closely replicating patch 1.12, which contains many changes and fixes to the game, it’s sort of like if people were complaining Uldir is too easy when 8.3 comes out.

  13. #273
    People played like this in vanilla too, people just got nostalgic with time and forgot about it and/or streamers never talked about it because "Muh everything was better".

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    Quote Originally Posted by rohoz View Post
    it 100% hasn't been a thing since vanilla

    it's a pserver thing that leeched into the game, pirate server meta isn't vanilla meta.

    but sure, go off.
    It very much was a thing in vanilla.

    No matter how much people may try to push the narrative that vanilla players didn't know what they were doing, it'll never be true. It was only true in early levels. You may notice that the vast majority of old "My time in vanilla" stories are with the lower level dungeons, or grouped with friends they got in those lower level dungeons who didn't mind you playing a subpar spec. Because at higher levels people got their shit together and pugs wanted good classes.
    Last edited by Toppy; 2019-09-22 at 10:41 AM.
    World needs more Goblin Warriors https://i.imgur.com/WKs8aJA.jpg

  14. #274
    the only bad thing about classic is v3t3r@n clowns who think everyone has to play like 15y ago and fit their retarded memory

  15. #275
    Quote Originally Posted by Thereturn View Post
    Everywhere you look its people asking for mage aoe or cleave comp or ridiculous level requirements, like 46+ for things like ZF.

    The result of years worth creating a playerbase with a "400ilvl minimum for a mythic +1 zerg derp" mentality.

    And yes, i know i can make my own groups. Who cares. Its about retail mentality seeping into classic, which sucks balls.

    Thoughts?
    Actually I'm going to replace that with "Late TBC/Wrath talent updates ruined Classic dungeons"

    When those hit in TBC you went from "CC, focus tank target, misdirect / tricks X" to the "LFM Shattered Halls Pally Tank - AoE fast run!" Went from most heroics taking an hour or so to about 30 minutes, if that.

    By the time we hit Wrath, you had pulls mostly consisting of tanks that just couldn't die to anything and could hold full aggro with a thunderclap type ability while the rest of the party just AoE'd everything - dungeons and raid alike. When Wrath became seasonal with badge updates ensuring everyone was running dungeon spam, tweaks were made to mob density and boss difficulty to ensure that your average run was 20~ minutes or less.

    Cata tried to dial back from that into a Classic-esque style dungeon approach... that lasted all of one patch before it was nerfed out of the game into oblivion. MoP made Heroic dungeons so insultingly easy that 5 dps could do that, at launch without being geared.

    So you have more like 10+ years of WoW history that changed the player mentality and ruined Classic dungeons, not M+.

  16. #276
    This is going to sound elitist and condescending, but could it be that gamers in 2004 were just better gamers, players, and people?

    It isn’t retail, it’s this entire generation of gamers who have no respect, wanna zoom through everything, and generally are quick to be rude and insult.

    The cupcake generation of millennials show their absolute worst side in gaming

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    Quote Originally Posted by Estravolt View Post
    Are you trying to say classic is hard?
    The content can be easier, but more unforgiving. Gearing up is absolutely harder in classic than retail since retail showers you in epics

  17. #277
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post

    Gearing up is absolutely harder in classic than retail since retail showers you in epics
    Only if you measure gear in color and not ilvl/stats

  18. #278
    Quote Originally Posted by Estravolt View Post
    Only if you measure gear in color and not ilvl/stats
    Take the color out entirely. Go ahead and tell me you can get full raid gear in classic faster than retail, because that’s just not true

    I recently walked away from BFA as a MT (for classic) and by the time your guild is on the 2nd or 3rd boss in mythic; you are pretty decked out.

    By the time you are killing the 3rd or 4th boss in MC; you’ll be lucky to see a single drop a month you win

  19. #279
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    Take the color out entirely. Go ahead and tell me you can get full raid gear in classic faster than retail, because that’s just not true

    I recently walked away from BFA as a MT (for classic) and by the time your guild is on the 2nd or 3rd boss in mythic; you are pretty decked out.

    By the time you are killing the 3rd or 4th boss in MC; you’ll be lucky to see a single drop a month you win
    And that naturally isn't because the bosses drop a retardedly small number of items compared to the raidsize?

  20. #280
    Quote Originally Posted by Estravolt View Post
    And that naturally isn't because the bosses drop a retardedly small number of items compared to the raidsize?
    I didn’t give the why, just the reality of the situation.

    Yes, gear is much more exclusive in vanilla and it makes the gear have infinitely more meaning

    The biggest problem to me with retail is it devolved into play the patch, not the expac.

    Imagine stepping into tbc the week your guild starts illidan and being ready the next week by skipping 90% of the content. That’s retail. There’s no real progression ladder because each patch devalues the previous content and it makes the gear meaningless. Combined with m+, where you farm the same gear season after season; and retail is more diablo 3 than Everquest

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