The Worgen - Goblin monk (8.2.5)

[Kyphael]

no its because you can't, you already dropped the ball real hard and its looking bad for you, especially the part where yous aid you could not make profit from a monk

I have and this is becoming pointless, you might have the time for this but I definitely don't. We're literally repeating ourselves in circles so it's best to agree to disagree, you think a singular background character monk is precedent for a large enough number of goblins to become monks based on that one Easter egg character that might or might not have been placed there as a sign of things to come, or simply, no reason at all. Goblin monks in Warcraft lore aren't playable, they're not a thing and they may never be. If they ever do become a thing, you can tell me to eat crow, but until then, you're leaving in a fantasy RPG world of "what may comes." Debating that is like running in a hamster wheel.

Even trying to decipher half your argument became a headache, it's like you saw @Super Dickmann use the straw man argument reference and started throwing that word out inappropriately, don't even get me started on knowing what you meant by indigenous. I had to decipher what you even meant by "strawmaw." Then you keep repeating the term "head canon" after you read me using it at a nausea and continued to shoe horn it in every other sentence to prop up your argument, gets kind of annoying. Even if you had a point, you might consider taking a debate class and spell check. It's not my job to make heads or tails of half of what you type.

There's really nothing else to rebuke beyond this, consider the debate over.

[Syegfryed]

I have and this is becoming pointless, you might have the time for this but I definitely don't.

sure

We're literally repeating ourselves in circles so it's best to agree to disagree,

you are repeating yourself, i constantly bring up new things and examples you sty in the old "greeeeeeedy"

you think a singular background character monk is precedent for a large enough number of goblins to become monks

it don't need to be a large number, and a singular character monk IS precedent, since other races had NONE

based on that one Easter egg character that might or might not have been placed there as a sign of things to come, or simply, no reason at all.

so, a goblin monk cannot be considered as a precedent of goblins being able to roll monk, bu somehow other races got monk without a single fucking monk character in their entire lore

like rly? you made no sense

Goblin monks in Warcraft lore aren't playable, they're not a thing and they may never be.

thanks captain obvious, regardless this don't mean they can't be in the future, and there is no lore fact saying they can't

Even trying to decipher half your argument became a headache

next time i will use a picture or a drawing with some colors, maybe will be enough for you

because its pretty simple:

>other races became monk without any single monk in their lore and backstory
>other races with worse moral compass and worse negative traits are monks

but somehow for you, goblins cannot be monks because one monk character is not enough(despite other races having none) and being greedy automatically exclude you from being a monk( despite other races being cruel, evil, twisted, barbaric and other negative traits in the same lv but this don't exclude you from being a monk)

Also for you, somehow, for some reason, unknown and yet unproved, goblins are unable to train to be monks because reasons you made up, despite being able to be other classes who need the same or more prepare and commitment

And the golden one "you cannot made profit from being monk like other classes"

or the nonsense one (goblins cannot be monks because they already are shamans omegaLUL

it's like you saw @Super Dickmann use the straw man argument reference and started throwing that word out inappropriately,

no, i said strawman because you spend more time attacking arguments that i never made and inventing shit up

don't even get me started on knowing what you meant by indigenous.

its disingenuous, waow i typed wrong, sure make you argument more valid

Then you keep repeating the term "head canon" after you read me using

its to show much a hypocrite you look like, claiming the lore high-ground accusing others to use "personal headcanon" yet its the only thing you did in the entire topic

There's really nothing else to rebuke beyond this, consider the debate over.

it was over a couple of pages ago, with this:



refuting your entire argument of they being unable to be monks

[Kyphael]

refuting your entire argument of they being unable to be monks

Singular background character with no lore means Easter egg until proven otherwise, but nice try hanging on to that.

[Syegfryed]

Singular background character with no lore

>apear in wod as one of the recruits of the Garrison
>traveled to the temple of five dawns to be a member of the Order of the Broken Temple.

<no lore

Again, its more than other races ever had before being monks, by your own logic other races could not be monks because there was no monk characters among then and there was literally zero monk lore in their race background.

means Easter egg until proven otherwise

you are saying he is an easter egg, proof how he is an easter egg please, until that is proven he is just an normal character in the game.

[Kyphael]

>apear in wod as one of the recruits of the Garrison
>traveled to the temple of five dawns to be a member of the Order of the Broken Temple.

<no lore

Again, its more than other races ever had before being monks, by your own logic other races could not be monks because there was no monk characters among then and there is was literally zero monk lore in their race background.



you are saying he is an easter egg, proof how he is an easter egg please, until that is proven he is just an normal character in the game.

Other races were implemented into the game as monks. Goblins were not. A singular background character isn't sufficient evidence of goblin monks being a thing, he's clearly the only one.

[Syegfryed]

Other races were implemented into the game as monks.

with:

1- no monk characters before then
2- no monk lore pior then
3- negative traits and behaviors who don't mesh with the monk philosophy that you preached about it

But with goblins its not possible even when:

1- there is monk goblins
2- meaning there is monks in the goblin lore
3- goblin behavior is not worse than other races behavior.

Goblins were not.

purely because they were stuck in the time locked starting zone, being tied with the cataclysm,meaning pandarens could not be there to teach then, cause Pandaria wa sonly find out later

its not about they being unable to be, they being greedy or other things you made up.

A singular background character isn't sufficient evidence of goblin monks being a thing,

one character is not enough, but somehow zero characters are enough

despite we having examples of races being able to roll a class based with one singular or no singulars at all

he's clearly the only one.

until we find out more :´)

[Kyphael]

until we find out more :´)

We won't. Blizzard hasn't touched Monk lore in five years. They're not going to start now. It's not even hinted at. It's a pipe dream.

[Syegfryed]

We won't.

is like a Bold prediction here nostradamus

Blizzard hasn't touched Monk lore in five years.

except now in mechagon

It's not even hinted at.

[Kyphael]

is like a Bold prediction here nostradamus


except now in mechagon

Been five years since they showed a singular goblin monk in no meaningful way as a background character. You can stop waiting.

[Syegfryed]

Been five years since they showed a singular goblin monk in no meaningful way as a background character. You can stop waiting.

gladly they don't have to do that to give then a new class

[Kyphael]

gladly they don't have to do that to give then a new class

Don't hold your breath waiting.

[Syegfryed]

Don't hold your breath waiting.

don't have a stroke if indeed happens,you now know how and why they can be a possibility.

[Kyphael]

don't have a stroke if indeed happens,you now know how and why they can be a possibility.

If it ever does, I'll admit I was indigenous and arguing a strawmaw.

[Syegfryed]

If it ever does, I'll admit I was indigenous and arguing a strawmaw.

you know the old proverb when you have to go for grammar is basically admitting defeat right?

i am dyslexic and obviously not a native, typed wrong, good for you, but you were wrong the whole thread about multiple subjects.

[Kyphael]

you know the old proverb when you have to go for grammar is basically admitting defeat right?

i am dyslexic and obviously not a native, typed wrong, good for you, but you were wrong the whole thread about multiple subjects.

There is no such "old proverb."

[Syegfryed]

There is no such "old proverb."

because i said as a form of satire, but is something well know among the internet.

[Kyphael]

because i said as a form of satire, but is something well know among the internet.

I don't care.

[Ogren]

Easiest solution would probably just to have worgen and goblin monks start at 10 and skip the starting zone.

I don't even think that's needed, could just say Worgen and Goblin are some form of brawlers until reaching past their zone and into level 20 turns them into a real Monk in training.

There isn't even a need for a Pandaren Monk trainer in either of their starting zones as well because class trainers have gone the way of the dodo.

[FossilFree]

I don't even think that's needed, could just say Worgen and Goblin are some form of brawlers until reaching past their zone and into level 20 turns them into a real Monk in training.

There isn't even a need for a Pandaren Monk trainer in either of their starting zones as well because class trainers have gone the way of the dodo.

If Stormwind humans, Lordaeron "humans" (forsaken), and Kul Tiran humans can all be monks, then there is no reason for worgen to be excluded.

As for goblins, they wouldn't let the gnomes get one up on them on anything with that arms race the two always have going on.

[Destinas]

Not really. It's kind like an "apples and oranges", here. Most of the base classes of the game were generically-designed, with no specific culture in mind, the priest included. Meanwhile, the monk has been designed heavily around the pandaren culture, and the only monk trainers are pandaren.

True, most classes were designed to be generic, but in lore it depends on how it's presented around each race.

It's less apples and oranges than you might think. Airborne Goblin Priests are actually Priests of the Holy Light, where on Azeroth most of their teachings have been taught through the Church of the Holy Light - we know this because they say "Praise to the Light!" when they're summoned, a phrase commonly used by its members. The goal of such priests, usually, is to create a world of honor and justice, aid those in need, and be good in all actions. This directly contradicts with the Goblin lifestyle of swindling, only looking out for themselves. The way around this is that Goblin Priests "help" people, and charge them money. They made it fit into their culture.

In a more specific example, however, Shamans are heavily featured around Orc, Tauren, and Troll cultures, culminating in the Earthen Ring - a faction originally created by Tauren a couple hundred years ago. The goal of the Earthen Ring is to maintain balance in the elemental forces in order to protect the world. This quite heavily contradicts with the lifestyle of most Goblins. We see different Goblin organizations reshape mountains/entire landscapes, force mountain giants to crap crystals, drill for oil (in an area/tribe ruled by an elemental, with Shamanistic people living there), strip mine, and destroy ecosystems. Much of Kezan is polluted, like the beach, Drudgetown, and their factories.

However, Goblins are able to be Shamans. They get around this by making them act like Goblins with the elementals, using the teachings of the Earthen Ring much less rigidly than other Shamans. While most Earthen Ring shamans (not all) commune with the spirits in a peaceful manner, summoning them in order to ask for their help, Goblin Shamans get around that by creating contracts with their elementals. Their totems are machines - drills with bellows, fans, and tubes in order to manipulate the elements, rather than summon them or bind them like other Shamans.

If the argument is that Goblin Monks wouldn't work because of their lifestyle and Monk teachings, well, we've clearly seen that they can work around that kind of stuff. Despite the fact that Monk abilities and lore is based around Pandaren, we've also seen Monks that haven't been taught by Pandaren at all and have similar moves - like I mentioned before, Brother Korloff has no association with Pandaren, and simply uses fiery abilities of regular Monks. Ma'ra Grimfang is an AU Mag'har (calling herself the "Dragon of Draenor") that uses Pandaren-styled abilities, despite the fact that no lore exists stating that Pandaren taught the Mag'har on AU Draenor after we left. Likewise, Mestrah (Ma'ra's counterpart) is a Draenei that claims to have fought/killed countless demons in the Twisting Nether, calling herself a "Dragon of the Light" - presumably she didn't learn her abilities to kill demons as a Monk from a Pandaren. It's also interesting to note that Mestrah was originally a Lightforged Draenei Monk - they changed her model, but not her lore.

Also, there is one Monk trainer that isn't a Pandaren - Zabrax. However, he probably was taught by Pandaren as well. There were also teachers at the Peak of Serenity that were Gnomes, High Elves, and Tauren. There's nothing to suggest that a Goblin couldn't teach other Goblins, if they must learn to be a Pandaren-style Monk (which isn't entirely needed - more on that later). Gakkiz Blusterblast could be their teacher, or, once again, a Wandering Isle Pandaren could easily go to Kezan.

Not really. Again, the goblins of Kezan lived a life of luxury and debauchery. They had no need nor interest in the more humble lifestyle of the monk and their teachings.

They want to live a life of luxury and debauchery, but not all of them have that ability. We see plenty of homeless people on Kezan, mostly living in Drudgetown - a slum. In lore, Goblins work in factories, like Healthy Foods factory, where they develop an illness due to the exposure of the sludge. Gallywix's father, Luzik Gallywix, was a small-time tinker who was constantly being harassed by a gang in Drudgetown.

It's easy to write off Goblins as one-dimensional - most are presented this way. However, it's absolutely false to say that Goblins in general wouldn't have a need to learn martial arts - and it's 100% false to claim that all Goblins on Kezan live a life of luxury. If the teachings you're talking about are things like inner balance, atonement, and peace, well that can all be interpreted in many ways, which Goblins could (and would) easily manipulate, as mentioned above with priests and shamans.

Go play the goblin starter zone. Many hobgoblins around, being used as bouncers, guards and servants. Again: your own goblin playable character has their own personal hobgoblin.

I didn't say that Hobgoblins didn't exist, I said that the majority of Goblin society isn't Hobgoblins. Besides, they do have bodyguards and town guards that aren't Hobgoblins in most Goblin towns/cities - bruisers, which are sometimes presented as Warriors, sometimes presented as hand-to-hand brawlers.

No, it's not a "fine line". There's huge loads of differences between the two. The normal brewmasters are just that: makers of brews. While the monk brewmaster, while also making brews, have a whole different set of training, mentality, discipline and skills that the normal brewmasters not only don't have, but have no need for.

That's like saying fencing is the "martial arts version" of 'pin-the-tail-on-the-donkey' game.

That's not entirely true. While many Brewmasters go through Monk training, not all have to in order to be seen as the Monk-style Brewmaster. The aforementioned Aegira is a brewer, and never once had Pandaren Monk training in Stormheim. However, she's considered a Monk, joins the Order of the Broken Temple, and becomes a Monk champion for players. The same could easily be written in lore for Goblins.
Another example, Coren Direbrew is a brewmaster, as you mean, and brawls. While not a monk, and never called a monk, he is a Brewmaster that brawls - which could easily translate to the brewmaster spec. He does, in fact, have history with Chen Stormstout as well.

Also, Gakkiz Blusterblast is a Brewmaster Monk.

Warriors can use guns.

Gnome Gunners aren't Warriors. They're a "lore class" that fits the best with hunters. That's the point, here.

The Kul'Tirans' lifestyle was not like the goblins, and mage teachings does not clash with their lifestyle.

I didn't say that Kul Tiran lifestyle is the same as a Goblins. Again, it's an example of a lore class that is used as shorthand for a playable class.

And, Jaina had to go to Dalaran to learn how to be a mage.

Priests have a shadow spec, remember? Based on the void.

Yup, I know. The point was that player orcs don't have to be shadow, but there's no lore to suggest that Shadowmoon Mag'har Orcs follow the Light at all.