The Worgen - Goblin monk (8.2.5)

[neik]

WoW is silly enough already. No kung fu werewolves, please.

Not an argument

[Ielenia]

<snip>

I'm snipping this for the sake of post size. Anyways, on to some of your points.

Regarding the 'priest' thing. Again, the 'priest' class is not themed around a single culture. The goblins could just revere the Light in their own way, and their society 'adapted' the concept to suit their needs with time. Are there selfless goblins? I'm sure there might be one or two in a sea of goblins. I don't recall ever seeing one, though.

About the 'shaman' thing, yes, I do think the goblins' 'contract' with the elements is more literal than the contract the other shamans have with them, but to say goblins 'manipulate' the elements? I think that may be going a bit far. And the shamans' goal is not to "protect the world" but to "mediate the elements".

Back to monks, and the AU orc boss in BoD. We did have pandaren around back in WoD, and while there is no lore saying pandaren stayed behind to teach them... there is also no lore staying that they didn't. So it's completely feasible to assume a pandaren stayed behind to help the orcs and draenei rebuild after the fight against Archimonde. Either that, or she learned the martial arts from the monks after she came to Azeroth. Same for Mestrah, in this case. Or, third option, picking those races was an oversight of Blizzard's regarding their lore (wouldn't be the first time).

They want to live a life of luxury and debauchery, but not all of them have that ability. We see plenty of homeless people on Kezan, mostly living in Drudgetown - a slum. In lore, Goblins work in factories, like Healthy Foods factory, where they develop an illness due to the exposure of the sludge. Gallywix's father, Luzik Gallywix, was a small-time tinker who was constantly being harassed by a gang in Drudgetown.

It's easy to write off Goblins as one-dimensional - most are presented this way. However, it's absolutely false to say that Goblins in general wouldn't have a need to learn martial arts - and it's 100% false to claim that all Goblins on Kezan live a life of luxury. If the teachings you're talking about are things like inner balance, atonement, and peace, well that can all be interpreted in many ways, which Goblins could (and would) easily manipulate, as mentioned above with priests and shamans.

Well, here's the thing: if the goblins in the upper echelons allowed pandaren in Kezan to teach the "less fortunate" goblins their lifestyle, that would've negatively affected the richer goblins as the poorer ones wouldn't depend on them as much. And considering we've seen goblins are willing to sell each other as slaves, I don't think pandaren would be allowed in Kezan.

I didn't say that Hobgoblins didn't exist, I said that the majority of Goblin society isn't Hobgoblins. Besides, they do have bodyguards and town guards that aren't Hobgoblins in most Goblin towns/cities - bruisers, which are sometimes presented as Warriors, sometimes presented as hand-to-hand brawlers.

Yes, but we are talking about Kezan, are we not?

That's not entirely true. While many Brewmasters go through Monk training, not all have to in order to be seen as the Monk-style Brewmaster. The aforementioned Aegira is a brewer, and never once had Pandaren Monk training in Stormheim. However, she's considered a Monk, joins the Order of the Broken Temple, and becomes a Monk champion for players. The same could easily be written in lore for Goblins.
Another example, Coren Direbrew is a brewmaster, as you mean, and brawls. While not a monk, and never called a monk, he is a Brewmaster that brawls - which could easily translate to the brewmaster spec. He does, in fact, have history with Chen Stormstout as well.

That vrykul is an odd case, to be sure. I'm convinced that she's only a "monk brewmaster" in game title only to fit within the monk's order hall and be a follower, since all followers have to be actual monks and she's something else entirely: a "brew maker that brawls" and not an actual "monk brewmaster".

Coren Direbrew, though, it's a clear-cut case of a "beer maker that brawls". His "history" with Chen is nothing but him arguing his way into Chen's beer drinking contest and then having his ass handed to him in a silver platter.

Gnome Gunners aren't Warriors. They're a "lore class" that fits the best with hunters. That's the point, here.

Not really. All they do is shoot their guns, which is something warriors do. I haven't seen them use traps or other hunter abilities.

Yup, I know. The point was that player orcs don't have to be shadow, but there's no lore to suggest that Shadowmoon Mag'har Orcs follow the Light at all.

Again, doesn't matter, because Priests are not "only" about the Light. Priests can just be shadow priests. You don't need to worship the Light... to be a 'shadow priest'.

[Mitters]

Lorewise, Worgen Monks could just be Human Monks who got cursed or whatever

[Fahrad Wagner]

Yeah. That has always been the case. It's in Rise of the Horde and even got specifically mentioned in Durotan's Lords of War episode. I mean where do you think it is coming from?

I had forgotten how heartbreaking this cinematic was.

[Al Gorefiend]

I have a hard time thinking a race rooted in greed and another that suffers from violent tendencies can master the strict disciplinary prerequisites to be a Monk.

Both blood elves and orcs can be monks.

[FossilFree]

I think if forsaken can be monks, anyone should be able to. Something that is dead has no chi, and being undead isn't being raised by chi but by unholy magic. Then with the rotting limbs and exposed joints, they would barely be able to throw a punch without shattering something. Yet here they are, with playable monks.

[Smarmy Orc]

Seems like there won't be much of a lore reason as to why they can't be monks anymore.

[spalernTJ]

Best choice of action imo, is to just give Worgen and Goblin monk special treatment. Make them skip their starting zones, start at level 10 in their respective capitals as regular citizens or something other than Volcano goblins and prime time Gilneans. The Goblins are a cartel right? Can't they "Recruit" players? And the worgen curse wasn't exactly cured cured right? They can still bite citizens of other human factions no? Wouldn't it make sense to allow a new Worgen, outside of Gilneas, to walk the path of the monk to help them retain peace with themselves?

[Amnaught]

No. Goblin monks don't make any sense with how they're a very selfish, profit-obsessed race. But then again, they somehow got to be shamans.

I can't imagine that monk is a better fit for undead or blood elves thematically, but they got it.

[Kayb]

With the new leveling system coming with Shadowlands I wouldn't be at all surprised if they opened up Monks to those two races. Starting zones as they are now won't matter

[Canirus]

I have a hard time thinking a race rooted in greed and another that suffers from violent tendencies can master the strict disciplinary prerequisites to be a Monk.

Why would greed prevent you from being a monk? And Worgen don't suffer from violent tendencies, they drink the potion in the starting zone. And even if they did, that would make them perfect Windwalkers. Orcs are suffering from their inherent bloodlust more than Worgen do from their condition.

[Halyon]

I can't imagine that monk is a better fit for undead or blood elves thematically, but they got it.

I couldn't imagine undead as monks either, as such, but undead and alchemy go hand in hand, why not tea-brewing and such. Besides, evil monks do exist.It's more the whole...teaching them monk stuff that bothers me there.

As for blood elves...they have farstriders, and after the reformation of their paladins to be less stealing-light and more traditional, they've had more apparent chill people to work with.

That said, I'm a proponent of everyone should be able to be everything, but when the class doesn't make sense, re-skin it to fit instead of just skimming over it in terms of lore.

[Yarathir]

I can't imagine that monk is a better fit for undead or blood elves thematically, but they got it.

It isn't really logic that floats, it's more so an appeal to status quo and then finding a hamfisted reason to justify its continued existence.

There is no reason that Worgen and Goblin can't be Monks other than Blizzard couldn't be bothered to update the starting zones with them. That's why they'll hopefully be playable as Monks when they change the starting zone experience in Shadowlands.

[Sangris]

The only thing about Worgen Monks that would irk me is how they'd use their hands in the same "Kung Fu" style as other races instead of using their claws to savagely maul the enemy.

[Yarathir]

The only thing about Worgen Monks that would irk me is how they'd use their hands in the same "Kung Fu" style as other races instead of using their claws to savagely maul the enemy.

I gotta agree to this. Worgen Monks that use their claws sound like a cool idea. Them slamming their fists into people? Eh, not so much.

[Jetstream]

No. Goblin monks don't make any sense with how they're a very selfish, profit-obsessed race. But then again, they somehow got to be shamans.

WoW Shamanism is a transactional relationship. You bargain with the spirits, convince them to do things. Goblins are great at negotiating.

[Halyon]

WoW Shamanism is a transactional relationship. You bargain with the spirits, convince them to do things. Goblins are great at negotiating.

Also very fond of pollution and such...things the natural elements aren't. I see them more as dark shamans than anything else.

[Jetstream]

Also very fond of pollution and such...things the natural elements aren't. I see them more as dark shamans than anything else.

The elements aren’t part of nature. They’re elemental spirits. They come from other planes of existence. Firelands, Deepholm, etc.

[Raetary]

The elements aren’t part of nature. They’re elemental spirits. They come from other planes of existence. Firelands, Deepholm, etc.

eh no.
The elements are naturally present on every world in the physical universe.

The elemental plane is a pocket dimension created by the keepers to contain the elements because of the Old Gods influence.