If the shadowlands leak is fake, then its a very logical, well thought one.

[Wyrt]

Why do people say Old Gods and Undead hate eachother so much? Sometimes they coexist just fine.

Because people decided that undead were immune to the old gods despite every indication in game that forsaken were just as susceptible to old god whispers as any other race.

It's a bit of headcanon that people just took and ran with without any kind of critical thinking.

[Corroc]

Shadowlands map could very well be real. It actually makes sense. But the story is total bullshit, it will never be something as ridicolous as that.

[Fred Skinner]

I cannot really imagine there would be an expac playing in the shadowlands, a region which is dark and depressing. That would be suicidal world design, considering the fact people want a beautiful world, and not leveling for 10 levels in a shadowy copy of the real world. Running around as a ghost in the shadowlands, even over multiple regions cannot be what blizzard plans to put their players into.

Only because Diablo IV is going to be dark and depressing does not mean WoW should go the same path.

Yet, i think we will get an expac about Sylvanas becoming the next Lich queen. She will command all undead, and invade Azeroth. This could allow Blizzard to reuse the old regions slightly redesigned for a new leveling experience and events and Warfronts. This time, not against the horde or alliance, but against the scourge and its undead minions.

If that is going to be the next expac topic, Dark Rangers could be very likely as new class. Lead by the slain nightelf general.

Beside that, blizzard has proven to be unpredictable. We also could get an expac called "World of Warcraft: Attack of the Gnomes" so there would be a justification that @Teriz gets his Tinker class.

[Thage]

it's about as logical and well thought out as the rest of bfa's story.

that is to say, absolutely awful and stupid.

This. If the leak is legit, then the writers truly have passed the point of no return when it comes to their inability to write stories as opposed to writing shock-and-awe moments and bludgeoning the story into fitting around those moments. The final raid involves Saurfang, Baine, Lor'themar, Thalyssra, and Thrall (who are committed to deposing Sylvanas) siding with Sylvanas against the Alliance leaders they'd been working alongside to lay down groundwork for a significant de-escalation, because Bolvar Deus Ex Machinas his way into the story from literally nowhere (as he's done precisely fuck-all this expansion beside mention he thinks Sylvanas is an asshole muscling in on his turf when Vol'jin asked) and rather than make good on his character thus far, he suddenly goes all blue because his daughter (who he's never so much as mentioned in passing since putting the helm on and despite his treating his old self as dead) rather than focusing on prepping the Scourge for a potentially-resurgent Black Empire.

And then we need another almost-literal Deus Ex Machina to save Mekkatorque, who then allies with a goblin that has not been shown to be a particularly gifted engineer, never mind one on Mekkatorque's level (Gallywix's strengths lay in more Machiavellian pursuits, whereas many of the gnomes' most significant modern advances have all been attributed to Mekkatorque's blueprints, including the Deeprun Tram) to design... a third Deus Ex Machina, all in the same patch story, so our character can go back and forth from the land of the dead, a land so ripe with Deus Ex Machina that the leak suggests we'll have our pick of the best and brightest dead heroes from all across lore to save the day and fix everything with.

Oh right, and there's literally no closure for the events of Battle For Azeroth, as Sylvanas's 7,000-D super megamind big brain chessmaster plan (the sort that gives Gendou Ikari from Evangelion and David Xanatos from Gargoyles throbbing wood) goes off without a hitch and all the mass murder and attempts at purging an entire species off the map are swept under the rug.

Don't get me wrong. This level of absolute, autistic mongoloid fanfic-tier horseshit is well within the current writing team's comfort zone. Most of us are just holding out the last glimmer of hope that they can restrain the urge to swan dive directly into the dregs of AO3's metaphorical Hall of Shame.

[Benomatic]

reploid Think about it. We've been hearing since WOTLK about the curse of flesh and how it's a weakness that drove all beings into old god submission.

I do not believe that to be true.

Beings such as Deathwing, Loken, and more recently Diamond boy magni, Anduin, and so many others.

I do not think this is accurate. Please can your provide sources that state Anduin and Magni are serving the old gods, also, please can you specify others?

Undeath frees us from that. That is why the Legion created the lich king, to fight old god corruption, since they are mortal enemies.

That is not true at all.

Arthas bathed in old god blood without being influenced.

Where and when did this happen?

Fast forward, Sylvanas is the only racial leader that knows this because shes the only one free from old god influence. Has a chat with her pal Helya who made her warchief, and discovers why she was put in that position of power.

How does she know this? How do we not know this? if we do know this, when was this revealed?

She already has orgrimmar, now she needs stormwind.

Ogrimmar belongs to the orcs. Why does she need stormwind?

With everyone dead and hence free of influence

Sylvanas wasn't very keen on free will with risen forsaken though?

now we can fight the old gods, which are really just pawns of an even greater evil called void lords.

Why now? Why not before? What about what we did in AQ, Ulduar, Pandaria? Uldir?

Once the old gods are dealt with we are gonna chill with illidan and sargeras who by now are best buddies and plot the end of the void lords.

Where is the source for this please? I do not ever see a redemption arc for Sargeras, he is pretty much the definition of unredeemable.

Only huge plot hole, to me, is how are we going to deal with the whole sword stabbed into the planet incident, and mr diamond boy who put the key to n'zoth's release around our neck.

Entire post is misleading. Wildly divergent tangent. Lacking comprehensible direction. Balderdash and ballyhoo.

[Hitei]

I cannot really imagine there would be an expac playing in the shadowlands, a region which is dark and depressing. That would be suicidal world design, considering the fact people want a beautiful world, and not leveling for 10 levels in a shadowy copy of the real world. Running around as a ghost in the shadowlands, even over multiple regions cannot be what blizzard plans to put their players into.

This same argument has been said about many different expansions.

Realistically there's no reason a shadowlands expansion needs to be any more dark or depressing than a Northrend expansion, or a Legion expansion. Shadowmoon Valley (Draenor)'s aesthetic, for example, would work perfectly fine in the Shadowlands and is not depressing at all.

[KayRule]

No, it doesn't make sense at all if you actually play the game. In the Horde war campaign you create a ritual to enter the Shadowlands and find Vol'jin, and travel around in it with him for a few more quests.

In Legion Deathknights enter the Shadowlands at several parts for their campaign.

Not only have we explicitly entered the Shadowlands already, but the Chronicle describes the Shadowlands as we see it in those instances and in regular gameplay occurence: the washed out colorless world you go to when you're a ghost.

The idea it's some pocket dimension continent when the game has you go into the Shadowlands and see it's what they already said it was in Chronicle in this VERY EXPANSION and people still think this expansion in anyway makes sense are delusional.

[Wyrt]

No, it doesn't make sense at all if you actually play the game. In the Horde war campaign you create a ritual to enter the Shadowlands and find Vol'jin, and travel around in it with him for a few more quests.

In Legion Deathknights enter the Shadowlands at several parts for their campaign.

Not only have we explicitly entered the Shadowlands already, but the Chronicle describes the Shadowlands as we see it in those instances and in regular gameplay occurence: the washed out colorless world you go to when you're a ghost.

The idea it's some pocket dimension continent when the game has you go into the Shadowlands and see it's what they already said it was in Chronicle in this VERY EXPANSION and people still think this expansion in anyway makes sense are delusional.

You also go into it for a quest with Auchenai in WoD. There's no reason we would need to die to go to the Shadowlands. And yeah, every time we've been it looks exactly the same as the real world, just spooky. The leak is nonsensical.

[Varodoc]

It's not too outlandish to think that N'Zoth would first recuperate his forces before doing something. Maybe build back his mass, spit out enough Faceless and Aqir before waging war against Azeroth and it's very, very efficient and murderous Champions.

And on the other side of the coin - what will Azeroth do against him? Swim to the bottom of the sea to poke his eye? He literally can wait, he's untouchable right now.

He's been building his forces for thousands of years. We already say how many armies he had at his disposal during the Siege of Wyrmrest Temple in Cataclysm.

[Jalham]

IF we all dead at end of patch 8.3, Does that mean my character is stuck in beginning area for patch 9.0 for months until that expansion is launched ?

[Benomatic]

Don't deathknights go to the shadowlands in their opening quest area to get their mount?

[A Chozo]

He's been building his forces for thousands of years. We already say how many armies he had at his disposal during the Siege of Wyrmrest Temple in Cataclysm.

We killed everything that attacked that temple.

We killed lots, lots of Naga right in the middle of their empire. We obliterated his mightiest champion, Deathwing, and killed the Queen of his empire.

Until he produces something stronger than the Champion of Azeroth (maybe an... Opponent of Azeroth), then he can act. Otherwise he'll be horribily vunerable. Do not forget that he was defeated before.

[Carolus Rex]

Think about it. We've been hearing since WOTLK about the curse of flesh and how it's a weakness that drove all beings into old god submission. Beings such as Deathwing, Loken, and more recently Diamond boy magni, Anduin, and so many others. Undeath frees us from that. That is why the Legion created the lich king, to fight old god corruption, since they are mortal enemies. Arthas bathed in old god blood without being influenced. Fast forward, Sylvanas is the only racial leader that knows this because shes the only one free from old god influence. Has a chat with her pal Helya who made her warchief, and discovers why she was put in that position of power. She already has orgrimmar, now she needs stormwind. With everyone dead and hence free of influence, now we can fight the old gods, which are really just pawns of an even greater evil called void lords. Once the old gods are dealt with we are gonna chill with illidan and sargeras who by now are best buddies and plot the end of the void lords.
Only huge plot hole, to me, is how are we going to deal with the whole sword stabbed into the planet incident, and mr diamond boy who put the key to n'zoth's release around our neck.

Deathwing was not affected by the Curse of Flesh

[Varodoc]

We killed everything that attacked that temple.

We killed lots, lots of Naga right in the middle of their empire. We obliterated his mightiest champion, Deathwing, and killed the Queen of his empire.

Until he produces something stronger than the Champion of Azeroth (maybe an... Opponent of Azeroth), then he can act. Otherwise he'll be horribily vunerable. Do not forget that he was defeated before.

I mean, does it really matter? The void elves were created last year and they already have an army. N'Zoth had thousands of years of isolation to build up his forces. If he really needs more troops, he can just borrow one of the cloning machines that Stormwind or the Horde have.

[Carolus Rex]

1. Do you think we're just gonna die and then be undead... everyone forever undead? Or are we gonna be cured by the undeath at some point? How would that even work and wouldn't that make the whole undead thing pointless in the first place if it was so easily reversed?
2. If Sylvanas really just wants to unite us against the Old Gods, then why didn't she tell anyone? Not even her own people. Why doesn't she, instead of trying to incite a war with the Alliance, sit down with the Alliance and tell them about what she knows... why did she kill some of her own people when Calia visited Undercity, just because they wanted to meet their families... why did she do everything to antagonize, not only the Alliance, but her own people, see Baine, Saurfang and Thrall, instead of trying to just convince people we need to go to the Shadowlands.

I mean none of this makes sense. It's just a poor fanboy attempt at whitewashing this lunatic cunt. Everything Sylvanas does has psychopath written all over it and it is consistent with everything she has been doing since Vanilla.

[matrix123mko]

What? No, the Scourge was not made to fight old god corruption. Where did you get that? It was made to take care of mortal resistance that prevented the Legion from invading.

Legion was to prevent old god corruption in the first place.

[Polybius]

So Arthas's motivation is basically Sargeras's. God why can't he just be evil.

To be fair the Lich King would not exist without the Legion. Nerzhul must have known something.

[Carolus Rex]

To be fair the Lich King would not exist without the Legion. Nerzhul must have known something.

Ner'zhul just wanted to be free.

[Wyrt]

Legion was to prevent old god corruption in the first place.

By destroying everything in the universe and starting over.

[Whitedragon]

This. If the leak is legit, then the writers truly have passed the point of no return when it comes to their inability to write stories as opposed to writing shock-and-awe moments and bludgeoning the story into fitting around those moments. The final raid involves Saurfang, Baine, Lor'themar, Thalyssra, and Thrall (who are committed to deposing Sylvanas) siding with Sylvanas against the Alliance leaders they'd been working alongside to lay down groundwork for a significant de-escalation, because Bolvar Deus Ex Machinas his way into the story from literally nowhere (as he's done precisely fuck-all this expansion beside mention he thinks Sylvanas is an asshole muscling in on his turf when Vol'jin asked) and rather than make good on his character thus far, he suddenly goes all blue because his daughter (who he's never so much as mentioned in passing since putting the helm on and despite his treating his old self as dead) rather than focusing on prepping the Scourge for a potentially-resurgent Black Empire.

And then we need another almost-literal Deus Ex Machina to save Mekkatorque, who then allies with a goblin that has not been shown to be a particularly gifted engineer, never mind one on Mekkatorque's level (Gallywix's strengths lay in more Machiavellian pursuits, whereas many of the gnomes' most significant modern advances have all been attributed to Mekkatorque's blueprints, including the Deeprun Tram) to design... a third Deus Ex Machina, all in the same patch story, so our character can go back and forth from the land of the dead, a land so ripe with Deus Ex Machina that the leak suggests we'll have our pick of the best and brightest dead heroes from all across lore to save the day and fix everything with.

Oh right, and there's literally no closure for the events of Battle For Azeroth, as Sylvanas's 7,000-D super megamind big brain chessmaster plan (the sort that gives Gendou Ikari from Evangelion and David Xanatos from Gargoyles throbbing wood) goes off without a hitch and all the mass murder and attempts at purging an entire species off the map are swept under the rug.

Don't get me wrong. This level of absolute, autistic mongoloid fanfic-tier horseshit is well within the current writing team's comfort zone. Most of us are just holding out the last glimmer of hope that they can restrain the urge to swan dive directly into the dregs of AO3's metaphorical Hall of Shame.

You forgot the contrived plot point where Sylvanas manages to trick everyone with the same exact plan she had at the start of the expansion.

Another where she manages to sack what is probably the best defended city the Alliance has by landing directly in their harbor which is probably the best defended point in said city (An interesting notion considering it took the Horde rebels and all the Alliance, just to take Orgramar from a portion of the orcs, and a handful of goblin and mantid.), She dose this with a force that is already split 3 ways (The rebels, the force attacking TB, and the Force attacking SW), After that she still has enough of a force left to pose a major threat to the combined might of the Horde and Alliance up until the last boss fight.

Yet more BS where somehow Thrall, Saurfang, Baine, and Sylvanas are seen as an even match for Anduin, Tyrande, Malfurion, Jaina, Genn, Velen, the dwarf leaders, and the Lichking's supposed help (Or dose he bugger off after killing Lor'themar...).

After this Gallywix somehow finds out where Mekkatorque is being held and is allowed anywhere near him.

And as you said it is all warped up nicely in the end where Sylvanas tells us all that now we are ready to fight N'zoth..... After she shattered both factions forces by running them into each other.... all to make us undead.... something that we have plenty of examples of the void being able to manipulate... And for some reason the Alliance just up and forgives her for the destruction of Stormwind.... and Darnassus..... And killing them all....

Ohh and did I forget to mention the Only reason Sylvanas's plan actually worked, is because of a random appearance of the Lichking? Because ya if he hadn't shown up we would have promptly slaughtered Sylvanas and gone into a relative peace again...