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  1. #141
    These stat squishes happen not because of inflation but because of planned obsolescence,

    Blizz is demanding that all gear be replaced with every patch, but it's not just 1 set of gear either, it's gear ranging from LFR to Mythic.

    Look at the ilvl difference from Molten Core to Naxx 40, then look at the difference from Uldir to EP.

    The reason stat squishes have to happen, and happen every xpac, is because blizz decided that you must have exponential growth from raid to raid.

  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by Mashanerz View Post
    These stat squishes happen not because of inflation but because of planned obsolescence,

    Blizz is demanding that all gear be replaced with every patch, but it's not just 1 set of gear either, it's gear ranging from LFR to Mythic.

    Look at the ilvl difference from Molten Core to Naxx 40, then look at the difference from Uldir to EP.

    The reason stat squishes have to happen, and happen every xpac, is because blizz decided that you must have exponential growth from raid to raid.
    so, if a new raid tier came out and the gear was not a noticible upgrade, you would be fine raiding? or m+ gear stayed the same.

    i kind of doubt it.

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by Carolus Rex View Post
    Wasn't there a stat squish right in BFA? I just reached 120 and got some benthic gear and my stats are as high as 1500 stamina on some pieces. What the fuck are they doing? Wouldn't they need another stat squish again right at the beginning of the next expansion? Why are they even doing this?
    They're doing a stat squish for the next xpac. Along with a level squish so I don't think they care how crazy it gets during bfa.

  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by dcc626 View Post
    so, if a new raid tier came out and the gear was not a noticible upgrade, you would be fine raiding? or m+ gear stayed the same.

    i kind of doubt it.
    m+ gear stops getting better after +10...but for some weird reason I do keys twice that, it's almost like gear has nothing to do with it?

  5. #145
    It has been stated the previous squish was made in such a way to make future squishes easier, so they basically accept that this will have to happen recurrently

  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by Hey There Guys its Metro View Post
    Wait what? Did you play Legion?
    Don't see how you can think the numbers are big after Legion.
    Take a look at this and you'll see the difference.

    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/17

    - - - Updated - - -



    You are 100 percent right, but using Classic and TBC gear is not helping you make your point.
    There was no concrete stat budget at that point. There were items that were from dungeons that were better than items from raids.
    That doesn't happen any more.

    Would be best to compare it to Cata and onwards.
    If you choose to do so, I'd actually be interested.
    Before Legion, I do feel like the power curve was much much less.

    I also agree that the answer is less raid difficulties for sure.

    I'd like to see Heroic and "max level normal" removed from dungeons. Only the leveling versions, then mythic only with Mythic+.
    For raids, remove two difficulties.
    I'd prefer LFR and Heroic, but either way, there should be one "easy" flexible difficulty, and one Hard progression fixed size difficulty.

    LFR has no purpose any more, but if we have to placate that crowd in order to make this happen, I'm willing to do it as long as they remove certain features like getting buffs when you wipe.

    Either way, that should free up at least 30 item levels, right?
    Could be 45 depending how they do it.

    EX
    Leveling dungeons at 119 or higher are 280
    World content is 300-330 depending on quality of world quest.
    Mythic dungeons are 340.
    Normal raid is 355.
    Mythic raid is 370.

    The problem comes in with Mythic+
    Typically Mythic+ goes from
    0 - 340
    2
    3 - 345
    4
    5 - 350
    6
    7 - 355
    8
    9 - 360
    10 - 365
    Chest 375.

    Obviously can not work given this current situation.
    So they would have to change how M+ works too in order to make this happen.
    It does have a purpose. A relatively low amount of people do non-matchmade content regardless of what you want to believe. Not necessarily as true for WoW players, but in games like Destiny, which has an extremely similar reward structure to WoW, very few people do the nightfall and raids as a ratio to the total amount of players. It's not always because it's too hard. It's socialization that a community of primarily introverted people don't want to deal with.

    Raid Finder may not have a purpose for you, but to expect every part of a game that millions play to cater to you is a level of egocentrism that should be studied.

  7. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by Carolus Rex View Post
    Then why squish them?
    I'm not 100% sure but I believe some of the reasons they gave for the squish is to

    A) Make things easier to understand at a glance (whatever that means)

    B) Make it easier for the game engine because raid bosses had too much health and it was hard to calculate.

    Like I said, I'm not certain but these of the reasons I remember reading about.
    "Honor, young heroes. No matter how dire the battle, never forsake it."
    Varok Saurfang

  8. #148
    As long as the ilvl inflation is that extreme between tiers,it's a problem that will never be fixed regardless of how hard they try

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by SoundOfGuns View Post
    Valid argument? But i am pretty sure they changed that ages ago. Im also certain that such an integer overflow would have happened in the past years already if there was one in reach.
    IIRC, it was the reason why Garrosh had to stop the fight like 3 times to refill his health in SoO. His total HP in Mythic came dangerously close to the cap, and if they didn't drop the numbers a bit, it would've been needed for every raid boss in WoD.

    That said, I'm pretty sure they fixed the issue sometime in WoD.

    I don't mind the numbers getting up there, as long as they don't overcompress how they're displayed. (ie, showing 1M for anything between 951k-1049k instead of, y'know, 451k-1049k. ElvUI does that and I hated it in Legion)

  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by Shaetha View Post
    It does have a purpose. A relatively low amount of people do non-matchmade content regardless of what you want to believe.
    and far less play WoW now-days, your point other then a failed appeal to popularity based on a contextless report from cata almost 8 years ago?

    by the way, said player activity report failed to mention how after the BC dungeon EXP nerfs everyone had to quest to get lvled so by then no shit pretty much everyone spent alot of time questing it was the most effective method to lvl for a while.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Bwgmon View Post
    IIRC, it was the reason why Garrosh had to stop the fight like 3 times to refill his health in SoO. His total HP in Mythic came dangerously close to the cap, and if they didn't drop the numbers a bit, it would've been needed for every raid boss in WoD.
    no because one of the major changes they made going into WoD was to upgrade WoW's engine from 16bit to 32bit, which wouldn't of had the 255billion integer cap.

  11. #151
    b.c. in blizz's mind (and likely right) going from 150 stam to 155 for the next teir wouldnt reward people enough anymore. people want the big jumps between tiers.
    Member:BFA Alpha, Member since 2/7/2018

  12. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReleaseDay View Post
    This. Why the fuck does it matter? Why is this even an issue to some? Are there so many like OP that suffers from sever dyscalculia? Because I keep seeing these bs threads pop up.

    There should never have been any squish to begin with. Even the first one in WOD was terrible.
    The real problem is inflation within an expansion, and it's pretty serious at the moment. A not terribly well geared, but current, character (e.g. has gear solely from open world content, hasn't maxed out all their benthics yet) has four+ times the health of a new L120, and the DPS increase is comparable. This has serious implications for PvP, and for PvE content - it makes older PvE content irrelevant extremely quickly.

    Making room between tiers for titanforging has made the inflation from having four layers of raids even worse. On top of that, in WoD they moved from a 13 ilevel per raid level step to a 15 ilevel per step increment. IMO they should have gone down to 10/step, and stayed with MoP's +5 ilevel warforging, possibly with a very rare +10 ilevel titanforge step. That would reduce a 45+ ilevel per raid patch jump to no more than 30 ilevels.

    Further reductions in ilevel increase could be made by reducing the step between raid types to +5 ilevels, and instead putting fixed sockets in the original BC-to-MoP style on raid and m+ gear, and having higher difficulty gear have more sockets. That would also give us a bit more customisation (yes, most people would just go and look up the latest builds in their favourite guide, but that'll happen regardless).
    Last edited by Kalisandra; 2019-09-23 at 01:23 AM.

  13. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by Malikath View Post
    and far less play WoW now-days, your point other then a failed appeal to popularity based on a contextless report from cata almost 8 years ago?

    by the way, said player activity report failed to mention how after the BC dungeon EXP nerfs everyone had to quest to get lvled so by then no shit pretty much everyone spent alot of time questing it was the most effective method to lvl for a while.
    Since you're so interested in correlating sub losses with changes Blizzard made to the game while also claiming the reports we do have do not matter without context, here's an article about this very subject from a dude who's actually seen the data.

    Take from it what you will, though I'm sure you'll just say "lol Ghostcrawler" and go right on pretending like you've decoded the human genome by calling retail shit.
    Last edited by otaXephon; 2019-09-23 at 01:23 AM.

  14. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malikath View Post
    they could just remove, LFRtards, heroic and mythic, set the game back to "hard" by default.
    which is what started this extreme power scaling in wrath when there were 4 modes per raid creating tiers within tiers.
    Wrath that three layers ICC - 10, 10-hard/25, and 25-hard. Before that hard modes added about half a tier worth of ilevel (and in theory some better itemisation).

  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by Malikath View Post
    and far less play WoW now-days, your point other then a failed appeal to popularity based on a contextless report from cata almost 8 years ago?

    by the way, said player activity report failed to mention how after the BC dungeon EXP nerfs everyone had to quest to get lvled so by then no shit pretty much everyone spent alot of time questing it was the most effective method to lvl for a while.
    It's not just WoW. Every recent game uses matchmaking for its primary multiplayer modes, so unless all those games are using whatever nonsense you mentioned, you should probably observe reality to see what people are actually doing. Games companies aren't trying to have less people play their games, so to deny that matchmade content is more popular is absurd. Stating WoW players are somehow different from other people playing the same types of games is also absurd.

    It might not have concrete evidence, but things rarely do, and the circumstantial evidence is overwhelming.

  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by Shaetha View Post
    It's not just WoW. Every recent game uses matchmaking for its primary multiplayer modes, so unless all those games are using whatever nonsense you mentioned, you should probably observe reality to see what people are actually doing. Games companies aren't trying to have less people play their games, so to deny that matchmade content is more popular is absurd. Stating WoW players are somehow different from other people playing the same types of games is also absurd.

    It might not have concrete evidence, but things rarely do, and the circumstantial evidence is overwhelming.
    and entirely irrelevant, as LFR isn't just a multiplayer match-make but a dumbed-down game mode that's had far-reaching effects on the game as a whole causing things in normal/heroic/mythic to be nerfed aswell.

    again, appeal to normalcy is just another fallacy.
    furthermore many of those games have been on the same slow decline as WoW, MW and BF both have on average sold less and slower then their predecessors, meanwhile apex died faster then the ghost of christmas present.

  17. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    It's "natural" inflation. Think of it this way: without the stat squishes, instead of seeing 1500 stamina, you'd be seeing upwards of 1.5 mil stamina. Or even 15 mil.
    just put 1.54m stamina, whats the difference between that and 1540 stamina? oh nothing just blizzard doing pointless "busy work" to look like they're doing something useful but really they're just fucking shit up again with every squish they do. Just like redesigning specs is "content" yeah amazing your spec gets broken for 6 months until they redesign it again....main reason i quit, too much squishes and redesigning of things that aren't broken then they break the fucking game and you wait months for a spec to be playable, or old content gets buffed because squishes didn't actually squish properly. No thanks blizz but keep busy doing that redesign and squish "content"

  18. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucetia View Post
    The only pieces I see huge amounts of stamina on are the Azerite pieces which makes sense because of their purpose and stuff.

    The rest of the Benthic pieces I'm looking at (around 410-415) aren't that big at all. I think leg slot was the biggest slot I saw for stamina anywhere. Cloak/Bracers were in around ~300-400
    Legs were always one of the high-stat pieces (equal with helms and chests). The benthics start with +556 Stamina at i385, and go to +851 at i425. While not "+1500", that's a pretty serious amount of health, especially as the amount of health per +1 Stamina has been going up over the years. It's also about a 50% increase in stamina from 'starting catchup gear' to 'current normal raid level'. Going from LFR to mythic raid levels is an even bigger ~60% increase in stats, inside a single raid tier. It's way out of hand, in my opinion.

  19. #159
    They have it set up to squish every 2 xpacs now. Also, 30 ilvl jump between tiers, and they've been adding additional stamina to azerite pieces with new seasons.

  20. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by Socialhealer View Post
    just put 1.54m stamina, whats the difference between that and 1540 stamina? oh nothing just blizzard doing pointless "busy work" to look like they're doing something useful but really they're just fucking shit up again with every squish they do. Just like redesigning specs is "content" yeah amazing your spec gets broken for 6 months until they redesign it again....main reason i quit, too much squishes and redesigning of things that aren't broken then they break the fucking game and you wait months for a spec to be playable, or old content gets buffed because squishes didn't actually squish properly. No thanks blizz but keep busy doing that redesign and squish "content"
    i wish they would of just taken their new versions and made new classes with them rather then redesign the classes again and again.
    because after cataclysm alot of classes weren't anything like what they used to be.

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