Question, should we drop down the ranks in the future?

[Lochton]

Disclaimer: This thread is not meant for the discussion of Classic Vs. Retail, or the discussion of general Game Vs. Game. TL : DR; Is it time that we lose some glory? We don't have to lose the fight but to be pushed down a few steps at least?

The reason everything is harder and takes longer in Classic Vs. the reason everything is easier and faster in Retail is:



In Retail, you are currently in the storyline built up to be a glorious hero. A beacon of hope and power for the world of Warcraft to bask in your glory. You are offered powerful gifts because you are the bringer of peace, commander of some forgotten Garrison, the lord of your path (class), the foe of the dead, the foe of the many, and conqueror of other realms. You are made up to be the grand hero in the story.

In Classic, you are Larry. Say 'Hi' Larry. You might've been the local farmer, a janitor? Maybe a lone priest in the abbey. A Scholar just back from studies or even just plain ol' Larry, the beggar from Stormwind City. You are the unknown traveler of the realms, the unknown wanderer of the shoes, the line explorer of the mountains. No one really knows you in classic - a few knows you and they do help you, while others rather just fend you off. "Oh, you killed a few boars? Well.. uhh... Have this pickaxe" - Larry is still innocent. He knows not of the threat in the future and is treated as such, handed over common commodities to at least offer you something.

Larry can be a nice guy, the glorious hero can be a bad guy but they both know that Larry could also be a ninja looting little shit while the glorious hero could be holding the new player's hand while taking them through the darkest caves for a quest. Doesn't matter if we like Classic or Retail, two different books with two different characters, two different paths of alternate stories - the only main difference is, that Larry's path is a history, while the current glorious hero's path is a story in the making.

So, I'll say this.. Why can't Blizzard just knock off a few stars from the glorious hero. Disgrace him, take away some of his gilded trust by the Horde/Alliance. Larry is the past and cannot offer much more than being a dot on the chart as we drag the heroes down the mud till we are carrying less demands, we are offered less expectations. Venture out, adventurer! We don't have to sit in the dark as a nobody like Larry started out to do, but maybe we should be kicked down the ranks a few - maybe even be pushed back behind the frontlines by the actual hero characters?



Just my view on the divide between Classic's experience upon people, and the experience of Retail.

[Mirishka]

We need an expansion that opens with us failing, like badly. Legion came close but stopped short of the player characters themselves getting their asses handed to them. I'm talking about something that hurts our reputation as heroes and champions and wielders of god-toys.

Maybe a bad judgment call that backfires, something where Anduin could say e.g. 'you should have listened. Because of you people died that didn't have to.' etc etc.

Anthem made a lot of mistakes but one thing it got right IMO was the skepticism that people have when it comes to the freelancers, who dropped the ball at the start of the game and have to earn that trust/goodwill back. I'd like to see WoW do something along those lines.

[Lochton]

We need an expansion that opens with us failing, like badly. Legion came close but stopped short of the player characters themselves getting their asses handed to them. I'm talking about something that hurts our reputation as heroes and champions and wielders of god-toys.

Anthem made a lot of mistakes but one thing it got right IMO was the skepticism that people have when it comes to the freelancers, who dropped the ball at the start of the game and have to earn that trust/goodwill back. I'd like to see WoW do something along those lines.

Never had a chance to explore Anthem, didn't know such.

I've always had this internal theory with N'zoth's release, that once the expansion was over, people were going to turn to us - blame us. Pull us down from the stage in disgrace as we basically fed Azerite into the system. Having the grand leaders judge us.

[Ange]

I just kill boars till my quest is done. Works in both game versions.

The lore part seem to divide the playerbase, maybe people should just kill more boars?

[qactuar]

That's what a lot of MoP was, wasn't it? The Pandaren by and large were pretty indifferent towards us when we landed on Pandaria. Outside of interactions with our own faction, we were essentially nobodies again as the Pandaren didn't really have any reason to care about what the Alliance and Horde had done outside of their land, much less our individual characters. Perhaps another expansion will come along eventually where the story 'resets' our characters' status again?

[Nnyco]

Being the hero makes sense, since you have killed so many giantic threats in the last 15years and you can always play classic if you wanna be the adventurer bobby, who nearly dies to two pigs.

[derpkitteh]

i want power and respect.

i want to be the order hall leader i was in legion, not another soldier. not a member of the horde or alliance.

[Lochton]

That's what a lot of MoP was, wasn't it? The Pandaren by and large were pretty indifferent towards us when we landed on Pandaria. Outside of interactions with our own faction, we were essentially nobodies again as the Pandaren didn't really have any reason to care about what the Alliance and Horde had done outside of their land, much less our individual characters. Perhaps another expansion will come along eventually where the story 'resets' our characters' status again?

Indeed. Mists of Pandaria did nudge us down a bit. We couldn't flash our smile as much for them.

I mean, in connection to this question, Saurfang and Jaina has gone through these stages already and are on their way up again (Well, Jaina is at the top again but Saurfang is still climbing).

[spalernTJ]

The reason everything is harder and takes longer in Classic Vs. the reason everything is easier and faster in Retail is:



In Retail, you are currently in the storyline built up to be a glorious hero. A beacon of hope and power for the world of Warcraft to bask in your glory. You are offered powerful gifts because you are the bringer of peace, commander of some forgotten Garrison, the lord of your path (class), the foe of the dead, the foe of the many, and conqueror of other realms. You are made up to be the grand hero in the story.

In Classic, you are Larry. Say 'Hi' Larry. You might've been the local farmer, a janitor? Maybe a lone priest in the abbey. A Scholar just back from studies or even just plain ol' Larry, the beggar from Stormwind City. You are the unknown traveler of the realms, the unknown wanderer of the shoes, the line explorer of the mountains. No one really knows you in classic - a few knows you and they do help you, while others rather just fend you off. "Oh, you killed a few boars? Well.. uhh... Have this pickaxe" - Larry is still innocent. He knows not of the threat in the future and is treated as such, handed over common commodities to at least offer you something.

Larry can be a nice guy, the glorious hero can be a bad guy but they both know that Larry could also be a ninja looting little shit while the glorious hero could be holding the new player's hand while taking them through the darkest caves for a quest. Doesn't matter if we like Classic or Retail, two different books with two different characters, two different paths of alternate stories - the only main difference is, that Larry's path is a history, while the current glorious hero's path is a story in the making.

So, I'll say this.. Why can't Blizzard just knock off a few stars from the glorious hero. Disgrace him, take away some of his gilded trust by the Horde/Alliance. Larry is the past and cannot offer much more than being a dot on the chart as we drag the heroes down the mud till we are carrying less demands, we are offered less expectations. Venture out, adventurer! We don't have to sit in the dark as a nobody like Larry started out to do, but maybe we should be kicked down the ranks a few - maybe even be pushed back behind the frontlines by the actual hero characters?



Just my view on the divide between Classic's experience upon people, and the experience of Retail.

Could be a pretty cool setup for an expansion. The "Hero" is set up by either an infiltrator, political agendas, or something else, and is sentenced to death. Before it comes to that, the "Hero" is rescued by a band of nobody adventurers, like we used to be, who is setting up a neutral guild outside the factions, made up of heroes and adventurers, and then the upcoming expansion is about uncovering a greater plot, branching into several bigshot villains, that can be built up over the course of more expansions.

It'd be a great way of removing the faction barrier that is at this point, in my opinion, bad for the game in many ways, most of all the story telling.

[Lochton]

i want power and respect.

i want to be the order hall leader i was in legion, not another soldier. not a member of the horde or alliance.

The Order Hall leadership, as well as commander of a Garrison put me off a bit. Didn't feel right to be up at almost the top with the other major characters ending up as almost servants.

[derpkitteh]

The Order Hall leadership, as well as commander of a Garrison put me off a bit. Didn't feel right to be up at almost the top with the other major characters ending up as almost servants.

i loved it. it's where we should be at this point, after all the crap we've pulled.

i specifically wanted more interaction with my entire army, commanding troops and stuff. that's why i was excited for warfronts, blizz played them up like you'd be able to command troops, but that fell flat because we're literally just an elite troop unit.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

I want to be divorced from orders and factions. Be a lone wolf. A wandering hero.

[Leodok]

I actually think Kul'tiras had a nice middle ground. We go there as champions, because we are in a mission with Alliance characters, who know us. But as soon as we get to Drustvar, for example, we're the outsiders and we have to earn the locals' trust. And when we leave the place and go do "super important stuff", we're champions again.

[Nathasil]

Being the hero makes sense, since you have killed so many giantic threats in the last 15years and you can always play classic if you wanna be the adventurer bobby, who nearly dies to two pigs.

I disagree. Being the Hero does not make any sense at all. You were AROUND when those threats were defeated. You did not duel Arthas while alliance+Horde were watching and cheering from the sidelines. At best, you were among the Vanguard of Adventurers who fought him. Why would any of the leaders know you personally and treat you as an equal or their personal champion for that?

Whenever the game singles you out and tells you that you are not "one of many who are currently doing this" but the ONE GUY who can and is doing it (like Order Halls) it basically says "Ok, you see all those other players around you who are just like you and that you need to get anything done? Ignore them for the sake of this story. A story that will later conclude in a raid that you cannot possibly finish alone while it's current. KKTHXBYE!"

I think they should simply be consistent and always treat you as "one of many". You can be powerful, but you should NEVER be anything special or unique.

[Steelcryo]

I see both sides of this. I like that we're the hero and recognised as such after everything we've done. We took down the Lich King, we saved the world from Deathwing, we stopped the Legion from invading the world and helped imprison an evil Titan. So it makes sense, we should be revered for everything we've done. Although, that said, it does get a bit boring constantly been pushed to the forefront of everything and having everything handed to us. Land in an alternate timeline, have a garrison, demons are invading, have this awesome weapon, oh no, the worlds dying, have a necklace (although that last one was a bit lame).

I'd quite like what has been suggested before, a time hop expansion. Somehow our characters have been MIA for a while, new heroes and leaders have appeared and they've kind of forgotten about us as we were just stories to them. It'd give the best of both worlds, to many we'd be unknown heroes that have to prove ourselves again while occasionally running into "the old guard" who remember us and want to help us out.

Not to mention, and this is the main reason I want a time hop, it'd open up the potential for so many new stories and lore and get away from a lot of the current stuff that's got a bit convoluted.

[Lochton]

I see both sides of this. I like that we're the hero and recognised as such after everything we've done. We took down the Lich King, we saved the world from Deathwing, we stopped the Legion from invading the world and helped imprison an evil Titan. So it makes sense, we should be revered for everything we've done. Although, that said, it does get a bit boring constantly been pushed to the forefront of everything and having everything handed to us. Land in an alternate timeline, have a garrison, demons are invading, have this awesome weapon, oh no, the worlds dying, have a necklace (although that last one was a bit lame).

I'd quite like what has been suggested before, a time hop expansion. Somehow our characters have been MIA for a while, new heroes and leaders have appeared and they've kind of forgotten about us as we were just stories to them. It'd give the best of both worlds, to many we'd be unknown heroes that have to prove ourselves again while occasionally running into "the old guard" who remember us and want to help us out.

Not to mention, and this is the main reason I want a time hop, it'd open up the potential for so many new stories and lore and get away from a lot of the current stuff that's got a bit convoluted.

Honestly. I could go with a time hop, maybe have our glory getting a bit dusty, less relevant, more a name in the books than the fields.

- - - Updated - - -

I actually think Kul'tiras had a nice middle ground. We go there as champions, because we are in a mission with Alliance characters, who know us. But as soon as we get to Drustvar, for example, we're the outsiders and we have to earn the locals' trust. And when we leave the place and go do "super important stuff", we're champions again.

That is a true view but doesn't keep on, we have the experience from the Zandalari but then suddenly, "Speakah o dah Horde!".

[Nnyco]

I disagree. Being the Hero does not make any sense at all. You were AROUND when those threats were defeated. You did not duel Arthas while alliance+Horde were watching and cheering from the sidelines. At best, you were among the Vanguard of Adventurers who fought him. Why would any of the leaders know you personally and treat you as an equal or their personal champion for that?

Whenever the game singles you out and tells you that you are not "one of many who are currently doing this" but the ONE GUY who can and is doing it (like Order Halls) it basically says "Ok, you see all those other players around you who are just like you and that you need to get anything done? Ignore them for the sake of this story. A story that will later conclude in a raid that you cannot possibly finish alone while it's current. KKTHXBYE!"

I think they should simply be consistent and always treat you as "one of many". You can be powerful, but you should NEVER be anything special or unique.

What no, you are fightin arthas with 24 others of your "elite team"(raid group) + tirion, he even tells you at the end of the fight that you are the strongest champions on azeroth he could find and he will raise you because of that.

There isnt a vanguard or army, just your team+tirion. If blizzards wants to show you that you were fightin in an army they would've done so, just look at the battle for lordaeron.

Sylvanas for example even calls you a hero among the horde that people look up to after handing in one of the saurfang quests, or Xe'ra in legion aknowledged that you killed illidan.

[Wyrt]

I just want to be an adventurer. I strongly dislike being forced into faction military.

Would be nice if we had choices as players, but we really don't. We're just streamlined into being faction champion and have 0 choice in it. Some more RPGness in WoW would be very welcome.

A good choice to allow would be letting people choose between being hardline faction cock sucker and being a mercenary that occasionally does work with the faction, but is otherwise a free agent. This could be done with something as simple as just changing quest text. You get the same quest, but the text is different depending on your previous choice.

[Nnyco]

I just want to be an adventurer. I strongly dislike being forced into faction military.

Would be nice if we had choices as players, but we really don't. We're just streamlined into being faction champion and have 0 choice in it. Some more RPGness in WoW would be very welcome.

A good choice to allow would be letting people choose between being hardline faction cock sucker and being a mercenary that occasionally does work with the faction, but is otherwise a free agent. This could be done with something as simple as just changing quest text. You get the same quest, but the text is different depending on your previous choice.

Problem with that is that you can only be a mercenary that joined the fight so many times before you are a hero of the alliance/horde, if you like it or not.

[Azerate]

I think it's wrong to assume that if the lore changes, the world will suddenly become more dangerous. Lore doesn't necessarily have to carry gameplay changes. When it comes to the lore, I don't really care, when it comes to gameplay, I"d rather have the easy world, yes.