No spell scaling ?

[Schmilblick]

Hi, is there a way to increase spells damage by other then spell+ items ? does this mean that Ret and Enhance will do the same damage with their abilities till TBC?

[shaunika123]

no there isnt.

but you can still get some spellpower even on enh gear (pretty sure the pvp set has quite a bit)

and if you could scale both attacks AND spells at the same time easily it'd be pretty broken

focus on one

[Schmilblick]

and if you could scale both attacks AND spells at the same time easily it'd be pretty broken

Actually that's why Ret and Enhance are bad in vanilla and literally an auto attack spec, the mana drain didn't help too.

[Cracked]

Well having literally no buttons that trigger on attack effects and scale from weapon damage to press doesn't help ret or enh.

And no, there isn't. Only +magical damage effects will increase your spell damage.

[shaunika123]

Actually that's why Ret and Enhance are bad in vanilla and literally an auto attack spec, the mana drain didn't help too.

enh isnt bad at all

it's just not a pve spec.

[ItsRainingMetal]

Ret scaled with both AP and SP in vanilla, no idea if that's the case in classic.

[Schmilblick]

enh isnt bad at all

it's just not a pve spec.

then it's bad.

[shaunika123]

then it's bad.

then so is fire till AQ40

in fact it's literally unplayable...

anyway, if you wanted to play enhancement you could, since the raids are easy anyway, but enha is mainly for pvp.

you need to leave your retail mentality of "everything for everything" outside the door I'm afraid.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Hi, is there a way to increase spells damage by other then spell+ items ? does this mean that Ret and Enhance will do the same damage with their abilities till TBC?

Some, most, spells scale with spelldamage and not attackpower. The only ability that scales with attackpower for Ret Paladins is Seal of Command which is based off your auto attack damage (not Judgement of Command iirc).

Also; not all spells scale at a 1:1 ratio to spelldamage or healingpower. I have a list of all the known scalings for abilities, inclyding the few that scale with attackpower.

[Druitz]

Ret scaled with both AP and SP in vanilla, no idea if that's the case in classic.

???

Ofc they didn't change scaling in classic remake because they want it to be like it was in past. Also idk why people still name wow classic as vanilla. Blizzard named it classic so it's classic It's lile calling bfa battle for andorhal

If you want spell dmg you need items that increase spell dmg, intellect does not affect spells dmg.

[Caperfin]

Actually that's why Ret and Enhance are bad in vanilla and literally an auto attack spec, the mana drain didn't help too.

You say "bad" but they still do WAY more than the required dps to kill a boss. Or just calling them bad because they're not adderal fuelled fury warrior dps?

[Schmilblick]

You say "bad" but they still do WAY more than the required dps to kill a boss. Or just calling them bad because they're not adderal fuelled fury warrior dps?

When the dps is far below most classes, then yes, the spec is bad.

[Machismo]

When the dps is far below most classes, then yes, the spec is bad.

Then don't play that spec. It's not as if you were not warned for 14 years.

You came in asking a question you already knew the answer to.

[Kralljin]

You say "bad" but they still do WAY more than the required dps to kill a boss.

That is a low bar to begin with.

The hardest part of MC is to get 40 people which follow the raid leaders call, the bosses themselves, especially the early ones are an utter joke.
A melee Hunter could "succeed" within this enviroment.

If people want to play Enhance, that is their choice, but then they need to accept that they're not top tier dps and some people may not want due to that.

The weaknesses of Enhance really come to light once you take them out of the static, single target (and quite boring) enviroment of Vanilla boss fights, but put them into something like efficient (a.k.a. fast) dungeon runs.
The only hope for Enhance to succeed there is to be the WF bitch and offhealer while the real healer drinks.

[Schmilblick]

Then don't play that spec. It's not as if you were not warned for 14 years.

You came in asking a question you already knew the answer to.

Calm down kid, i wasn't asking if it was good or bad.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

if you could scale both attacks AND spells at the same time easily it'd be pretty broken

Ironically, if you played on Nost you'd remember the evidence people found that select spells DID scale on both. Its a very common function in video games and even though it might sound weird for how stats work in WoW, its perfectly understandable for many spells.
One such was consecrate, and of course it scaling with AP and SP made paladins pretty solid.

But the evidence was always controversial, and I can't remember why exactly.
Nost was ran by respectable people and they were always open source with their code, but when it was passed to Elysium it was deemed not intended, and was removed from their server.

I assume it seems to be not scaling with AP in official classic too right?
Allowing spells like that to do so would be a pretty small but generous nod towards balancing the off-specs more, but god forbid!
Can't consider changes to the bible of 1.12!

[Caperfin]

That is a low bar to begin with.

The hardest part of MC is to get 40 people which follow the raid leaders call, the bosses themselves, especially the early ones are an utter joke.
A melee Hunter could "succeed" within this enviroment.

If people want to play Enhance, that is their choice, but then they need to accept that they're not top tier dps and some people may not want due to that.

The weaknesses of Enhance really come to light once you take them out of the static, single target (and quite boring) enviroment of Vanilla boss fights, but put them into something like efficient (a.k.a. fast) dungeon runs.
The only hope for Enhance to succeed there is to be the WF bitch and offhealer while the real healer drinks.

Why would dungeon runs be a thing you value over raids? The single thing most people care about is single target static fights.
The necessity of a WF slave is greatly exaggerated, most people underestimate the potential of a pure damage dealing shaman, but I'd understand it for progression.

[Kralljin]

Why would dungeon runs be a thing you value over raids? The single thing most people care about is single target static fights.

As elaborated earlier, said ST fights are a complete joke, there is absolutely no need for optimization to beat them.
Especially if you just hit 60 and want to grind dungeons en masse for gear, setup makes a massive difference how quickly you can clear a dungeon.

Because if you would have to optimize for raiding, things like Enhance would be chopping block anyway.

Sorry, you cannot say on one side "as long as the boss dies, it's fine!" but then go "You should optimize around raid bosses!", these two narratives don't mix.

One can argue over difficulty later on, but in the current stage, the bosses are a joke and it's far wiser to run a solid dungeon spec as long as you need gear from dungeons.

The necessity of a WF slave is greatly exaggerated

It's not, it's the saving grace of the Shaman class compared to Paladin.
In anything else besides Raidhealing, Shaman is objectively worse than Paladins as far as raiding is concerned.

most people underestimate the potential of a pure damage dealing shaman, but I'd understand it for progression.

You are a worse dps than a Warrior or a Rogue on Single target, therefore, you're the one who exaggerates the value of an Enhancement Shaman.
Whose Dps drops significantly after a sort time unless they're ready to chain chug Mana pots in order to spam Shocks on CD.

The most useful thing that can happen to an Enhancement Shaman is being in the same party as 4 warriors.

I'll reiterate it, if you want to play Enhancement, that's fine, that's your choice, but don't pretend like it's any shape or form competitive with Warriors or Rogues who have remotely equivalent gear.



But anyway, going by your sig & avatar, i don't see any point in further discussing this topic with you.

[RobertMugabe]

you need to leave your retail mentality of "everything for everything" outside the door I'm afraid.

I don't think you know what retail mentality is then... If anything it was in vanilla were certain specs weren't given a chance (even if they could perform well) simply due to how the game was designed

[shaunika123]

Can't consider changes to the bible of 1.12!

sure you can.
after a full cycle of content.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't think you know what retail mentality is then... If anything it was in vanilla were certain specs weren't given a chance (even if they could perform well) simply due to how the game was designed

yeah that's my point.

vanilla specs are designed to be good for specific things. while classes as a whole are viable.

whereas in retail all 36 specs have to be balanced and good for everything.

it's a completey different design.

and enhance shamans are a pvp spec.
just like sub rogues, or arms warriors.