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  1. #341
    Quote Originally Posted by Trend View Post
    Your whole argument seems to be based on your experience in undergeared PUG's.
    Now I do think you have a point in specific cases. In my opinion, G'huun was just a terrible fight, even on Heroic. It's just too specific and when the whole encounter goes off the rails when your monk gets stuck on a twig or you don't have enough warlocks, that points to a design problem. But to make Heroic EP bosses more loot piñatas than they already are would be an entirely bad thing. If you're putting together a group that can't manage it, working as intended ... go run Normal. If they skew the game even more to handing out 430's just for showing up it would be disappointing.

    Fortunately, I can say with assurance they have not and will not intentionally design Heroic raids around PUGs. You can be sad or mad, but that is a core philosophy that I don't see changing because it would just lead to the real target audience getting entirely bored and uninspired.
    Oh no, not at all, I've been pugging with every type of raid and the thing is that I was able to pug and carry with or without gear, but now, if you want to kill more than 3/4 bosses in Heroic, is just hard. In past expansions it was easy to just start a group and kill everything with your own effort and not having to risk your time because now you need that almost everyone knows the bosses and also know how to use their chars properly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozyorkbourne View Post
    That isn't what the game is supposed to be at all. I've put some parts of your post in bold. Can I just say, if ever 2-3 people can carry the entire mechanics for a 15+ group on hc or higher, I'd cancel my subscription right there and then because that's a symptom of shit design.

    You have failers in the group? Kick them. When recruiting them, check to see what they've killed, how many times, gear choices/ilvl etc. It's hard to trust pugs but if you want to pug raid, guess what, you're going to have to. Pug with more people more regularly, get a guild alt run together or something.

    You claim the game was "Never like that". Having raided since TBC, I can assure you, it's very rarely not been like that. There's been something that someone could fail at and wipe the group consistently. Although sometimes it would only kill a few people, that then left you generally unable to kill the boss or meet checks. So there were less insta-wipes, but plenty of mechanics that if failed would cost you the kill.
    The game was always like that before Legion.
    Speaking of kicking people, yes, of course that's part of the solution, but not for every single party.

    About the rest of solutions you gave, it's nice to say a lot of things to solve this but the game is not puggable like it was before, now there's no fun on pugging with an alt and not all the guilds play together outside the schedule.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Segus1992 View Post
    Yes, the 'adults' saying "roflmao", "lul", and having to make themselves feel better by saying inane shit.
    Blame on twitch kappalol gachibass mydude
    Last edited by Levogames; 2019-09-26 at 11:10 PM.

  2. #342
    Quote Originally Posted by Segus1992 View Post
    Yes, the 'adults' saying "roflmao", "lul", and having to make themselves feel better by saying inane shit.
    "inane shit"



    <s>Yeah dude vanilla wow is totally harder than lfr </s>

    the rofl and the lmao are for your obvious sarcasm. Noone could be that stupid

  3. #343
    Quote Originally Posted by Levogames View Post
    Never said anything about Mythic, in fact, I never had problems with a single mechanic, I learn and Understand every boss because I pay attention. Just read the first post and let me know what you think abotu the thread and not about what you think I'm saying...
    I understand what you are saying mate, but I do not agree with you at all. I don't see a single reason to make heroic raids easier. They're not supposed to be killed by a pug group with random people with no communication whatsoever.

    I understand your issue too, because I have the same, puging EP heroic is near impossible after Orgozoa. But what I did do, instead of wanting to make the game easier, was make my own group only with people who were using voice, and raid lead the fights. And guess what, we actually cleared it (well, up to Azshara because fk doing that with randoms).

    You wanna pug with no effort, sure, go ahead and do normal. Or just make a small group of your own like 2-2-6, where you wont need to carry anyone and you'll clear it without an issue.

  4. #344
    Quote Originally Posted by Levogames View Post
    Oh no, not at all, I've been pugging with every type of raid and the thing is that I was able to pug and carry with or without gear, but now, if you want to kill more than 3/4 bosses in Heroic, is just hard. In past expansions it was easy to just start a group and kill everything with your own effort and not having to risk your time because now you need that almost everyone knows the bosses and also know how to use their chars properly.
    You didn't really address what I said, but ok, let's go on this tangent.

    Can you name the heroic raids you cleared successfully with under-geared PUGers that didn't know mechanics? You have advanced a vague notion and I would like some specifics. I might have missed something, but I don't think you've said anything more specific than that it was 'past expansions'. Since this is the third expansion with the current four difficulties, I would think the discussion would be about WoD/Legion/BfA. From these three expansions the only raid I can think of that fits your description is EN, which was massively under-tuned and boring AF as a consequence. I didn't play WoD but my impression is that those raids were actually good, but maybe I'm mistaken. In any case, what raids are you pointing to that were easy like you like them?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Segus1992 View Post
    Yes, the 'adults' saying "roflmao", "lul", and having to make themselves feel better by saying inane shit.
    Just want to point out that you childishly avoided addressing the objective truth in what he said by redirecting the conversation to trite personal opinions about what adults would or would not say on a fan forum for a video game.

  5. #345
    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrt View Post
    If you want easy WoW then classic is there for you.
    Classic is harder than retail. You have to use twice as many abilities because of spell ranks, and leveling is so tedious.
    Last edited by muto; 2019-09-30 at 08:29 PM.

  6. #346
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    Quote Originally Posted by vipers View Post
    Nope its not easy because there is just no way to solo elite quests alone and many times there is no people to do those quests
    Yeah...can't solo some elites...that makes so much difference compared to everything in Classic's endgame being a complete pushover?

    Who cares about endgame when there exists a few quests in the world you can't do alone!

    Classic is easy and everyone knows it, you just deny it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by muto View Post
    Classic is harder than retail. You have to use twice as many abilities because of spell ranks, and leveling is so tedious.
    Tedious /= Hard

    It just doesn't...Classic isn't hard, stop pretending it is.

  7. #347
    Quote Originally Posted by Sorotia View Post
    Yeah...can't solo some elites...that makes so much difference compared to everything in Classic's endgame being a complete pushover?

    Who cares about endgame when there exists a few quests in the world you can't do alone!

    Classic is easy and everyone knows it, you just deny it.

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    Tedious /= Hard

    It just doesn't...Classic isn't hard, stop pretending it is.
    Hmm same argument can be applied to retail then. Only hard bosses in the raid are the final 2 on Mythic. The rest of the game is a joke. Friend came back and he hasn’t played since Uldir and he tanked a 10 in his 1 year old gear set, but you know retail is “hard”.
    Last edited by muto; 2019-09-30 at 08:42 PM.

  8. #348
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    Quote Originally Posted by muto View Post
    Hmm same argument can be applied to retail then. Only hard bosses in the raid are the final 2 on Mythic. The rest of the game is a joke. Friend came back and he hasn’t played since Uldir and he tanked a 10 in his 1 year old gear set, but you know retail is “hard”.
    Hey, I'm not the one going around bragging how hard retail is...I know it isn't all that hard besides mythic stuff.

    But you're going around talking how hard Classic is when only the smallest fraction of it is hard.

  9. #349
    When I have a feelings like you, I play x30 ;D where I am the BOSS

  10. #350
    Quote Originally Posted by Trend View Post
    Just want to point out that you childishly avoided addressing the objective truth in what he said by redirecting the conversation to trite personal opinions about what adults would or would not say on a fan forum for a video game.
    Avoided the 'argument' that LFR is harder because "there are more buttons on live"? I didn't consider that an argument because you'd have to be A) really fucking stupid to think more buttons = harder and B) really fucking stupid to think you even need to know beyond the simplest level what button to press to beat LFR.

    I didn't consider it an argument because only people who don't play Classic would even think it to be an argument. Why would those people's opinions be relevant?

  11. #351
    Quote Originally Posted by Segus1992 View Post
    Avoided the 'argument' that LFR is harder because "there are more buttons on live"? I didn't consider that an argument because you'd have to be A) really fucking stupid to think more buttons = harder and B) really fucking stupid to think you even need to know beyond the simplest level what button to press to beat LFR.

    I didn't consider it an argument because only people who don't play Classic would even think it to be an argument. Why would those people's opinions be relevant?
    If you can't even read what you quoted for your redirection attempt I can't help you. What you responded to was not "there are more buttons on live". That is just a straw man, another attempt to redirect.

    Also, I played Vanilla from within seconds of the first servers going live and I raided from very early on and have continued to raid ever since with only a few breaks. I think your basic position (to deny how easy AF Vanilla/Classic raiding was/is) is significantly obtuse. This motivates your attempts to redirect rather than acknowledge how pathetically simple your cherished Classic raiding is.

    I understand why someone could legitimately see the Classic raids are "harder" because it is much more of a pain to get the group together than to simply queue. Overall I don't think there is an objective "harder", it's a matter of perspective. But sticking one's head in the sand to avoid valid points is just silly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by muto View Post
    Hmm same argument can be applied to retail then. Only hard bosses in the raid are the final 2 on Mythic. The rest of the game is a joke. Friend came back and he hasn’t played since Uldir and he tanked a 10 in his 1 year old gear set, but you know retail is “hard”.
    First of all, at this point in the season a +10 is not some significant bar to prove how easy the game is. Secondly, that's the whole point of keys - you can always push higher. If a 10 is boring then do 15's or 20's or whatever. Lastly, your friend did not come back in a year old tank set to do a mythic +10 without getting any other gear first. That is utter bullshit. Go ahead and share his character name and his raider.io will have logged every run he did and what he was geared with at the time. Really easy to prove if you're not just a liar.

  12. #352
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    Quote Originally Posted by Levogames View Post
    I'm pretty sure that everybody noticed this and now I feel this needs to be addressed.
    WoW is annoyingly harder than before because of the implementation of new "personal" mechanics where a single failure could wipe an entire raid and there's no way that 5 people can carry the full mechanic of an encounter.

    I KNOW that WoW is not hard at all if you learn, read and pay attention to every single mechanic and I'm not complaining about that. But the game was never like that and the best example are the pug raids.

    Now that everyone says that WoW is made for casuals or azerite farmers I have troubles to find a decent party to kill more than 5 bosses on HC, even since Uldir, even with the "multicurved" premades with overgeared people.

    I want to make my own premade with two of my friends and ensure that we will carry the entire mechanic of an encounter because, obviously, is hard to trust on pugs and expect that no one will leave after a single wipe.

    This happens even with Mythic farm, where almost all the guilds with 6/8 bosses still have struggles to kill Orgozoa or the nerfed Ashvane where in past expansions, farming after the first/second kill was easy and FUN to do.

    I hope Blizz someday does something to change the new "personal everything" and let us enjoy the game like before.


    Edit: Let me clarify, I do Mythic raiding with success. I'm not comparing anything with classic. I want to have better odds on clearing an entire HC raid with pugs, and I never went to any raid wearing full greens or wanting carry. I want to be able to carry a raid instead of wasting my time trying to find a party who doesn't wipe on the last 4/5 bosses which is extremely hard unless you queue a multicurved-overgeared premade and even by doing that there's no guarantee. Enjoy WoW
    Not trying to be a dick but really, why does it even matter what you want? There's other games out there, go find something you would prefer instead of complaining about what you have.

  13. #353
    Quote Originally Posted by Trend View Post
    If you can't even read what you quoted for your redirection attempt I can't help you. What you responded to was not "there are more buttons on live". That is just a straw man, another attempt to redirect.

    Also, I played Vanilla from within seconds of the first servers going live and I raided from very early on and have continued to raid ever since with only a few breaks. I think your basic position (to deny how easy AF Vanilla/Classic raiding was/is) is significantly obtuse. This motivates your attempts to redirect rather than acknowledge how pathetically simple your cherished Classic raiding is.

    I understand why someone could legitimately see the Classic raids are "harder" because it is much more of a pain to get the group together than to simply queue. Overall I don't think there is an objective "harder", it's a matter of perspective. But sticking one's head in the sand to avoid valid points is just silly.
    You mentioned me not responding to his "objective truths" - what aside from number of buttons would you consider objective? All he said was that LFR is harder. If you consider that an objective truth, you just don't know what the word means.

    I've never said Classic raids are hard, I've said Classic holds a general difficulty setting all throughout, while Live holds a much lower general difficulty setting but has the option of amping it up way higher than anything in Classic. It's a pretty neutral stance you're only going to disagree with if you've got some stupid "popular = bad" hatred for Classic.

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