Mega-Thread: Impeachment Proceedings & Inquiry of Trump

[Edge-]

I want to see Adam Schiff (best House rep for this, imo) on TV every day talking about the fucking nonsense this Administration has gotten up to.

Given the Democrats performance so far...we know this ain't gonna happen. They've missed so many opportunities to blast the airwaves with their messaging and try to set/shift the narrative and pretty much miss every single one. Sure we'll get Ted Lieu or someone else dropping some fire during the odd spot here or there, but there's no real concerted effort that I can see.

Democrats don't need to be patiently waiting for news show bookers to call them for a spot, they need to have their communications folks contacting every booker at every national and regional news broadcaster offering up anyone they can to hammer the messaging repeatedly.

And ads. They need to be creating and starting their ads NOW. These will matter, a lot, and can help them reach folks who aren't watching cable news shows. If they're not in hardcore strategy sessions now, as they're already behind on planning, then they're basically making sure they start the race before they've even put their spikes on.

[Doctor Amadeus]

We will see what comes of this but this effectively could put Pelosi's feet to the fire, there as been a lot of grumbling about Pelosi's unwillingness to go forward. Honestly this should have nothing to do with the election.

As for the possibility of being left with Pence, while he isn't any different than Trump at least he isn't as stupid or inept.

[Edge-]

As for the possibility of being left with Pence, while he isn't any different than Trump at least he isn't as stupid or inept.

Oh he's very different, and his intelligence and competency potentially make him more dangerous. The only hope is that rather than take office and try to turn the country into a Christian theocracy that he acts as a lame-duck president and simply doesn't rock the boat until an elected president can take office.

[Zaydin]

We will see what comes of this but this effectively could put Pelosi's feet to the fire, there as been a lot of grumbling about Pelosi's unwillingness to go forward. Honestly this should have nothing to do with the election.

As for the possibility of being left with Pence, while he isn't any different than Trump at least he isn't as stupid or inept.

Oh, Pence as president would be awful. He'd just be a more traditional sort of Republican awful compared to Trump.

It's like having to choose between whether you'd rather be shot or stabbed; you have to decide which will hurt less.

[Breccia]

I agree, the odds of Pence getting caught up in any of this seem pretty minimal.

Pence knows his only chance to be President are if Trump resigns, is impeached, or dies. He will never be elected. He has nothing to lose by pardoning Trump -- it was lost already.

[Wyrt]

Which leads to an interesting dilemma for Trump. If he gets voted out of office in 2020, then he can either attempt to pardon himself as a lame duck, or else face the rest of his life under continuous criminal investigations. However, if he leaves office early, Pence has more or less free reign to pardon him, since it won't hurt Pence's already abysmal chances in the general election.

So it may be in Trump's personal best interests to resign beforehand. And as we all know, it is his personal interests that matter most to him. If he has a Presidential pardon, he can still go on to run his own TV network where he screams about how he was wronged.

Yes, pardoning himself will absolutely be challenged in courts and hopefully the courts would decide a president can not pardon himself because that'd be fucking insane.

His safest bet is to resign and let Pence pardon him.

[SirBeef]

Let's hope they don't screw this up. :/

What's there to screw up? They will pass the motion to impeach and the senate will not vote or vote to acquit. Unless the Dems win the Senate, which is unlikely to happen until 2022.

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Yes, pardoning himself will absolutely be challenged in courts and hopefully the courts would decide a president can not pardon himself because that'd be fucking insane.

His safest bet is to resign and let Pence pardon him.

Are the pardon powers in the constitution? If not they really should be removed.

[Doctor Amadeus]

Oh he's very different, and his intelligence and competency potentially make him more dangerous. The only hope is that rather than take office and try to turn the country into a Christian theocracy that he acts as a lame-duck president and simply doesn't rock the boat until an elected president can take office.

Yeah I'll admit it's difficult, but when we have a Trump who literally ignores the advice of seasoned generals and experts when it comes to not only the defense of this nation, but also seeks to undermine the very country he claims to love. The question really becomes is it worse to have someone who's intention is to do what he is doing, or someone so clueless whatever is happening despite himself.

There is a reason Trump has gone through so many people. Pence on the other hand might be able to think and chew bubble gum at the same time. I can trust someone who is misguided and has conviction to be reasonable.

However Trump believes in nothing but his own bullshit.

But more importantly I don't know that Pence has literally broken any laws. Yet!

[SirBeef]

I know my LGBTQ+ friends are terrified of what a Pence agenda would look like.

Not much different than Trumps.

[Doctor Amadeus]

Oh, Pence as president would be awful. He'd just be a more traditional sort of Republican awful compared to Trump.

It's like having to choose between whether you'd rather be shot or stabbed; you have to decide which will hurt less.

Yes he would be awful, but Trump is catastrophic not only to the women, minorities and LBGT but to everyone who relies on having a leader who isn't this inept. Trump would never protect this country or put it first as he says over his own ego. If he would he would have stepped down by now.

But he won't because even a Crook like Nixon has more integrity.

[bagelmanman]

Oh boy another nothingburger mm mm mmmmm

But the usual people will eat up anything despite the facts.

[Edge-]

Oh boy another nothingburger mm mm mmmmm

Nothingberder*, we're talking about hamberders after all.

[Jimmy Woods]

My favorite 2 things about Trump's impeachment are:

1. The whole feelings brigade screeching that this is going to guarantee Trump landslide. LOL. They like to include some feelings poll about Trump at 52/53% approval. Double LOL.

2. Conservative talking heads gaslighting their FUCKING DUMB BASE by attacking capitalism. Yeah, big companies have huge boards of well connected people or wealthy elites that usually have nothing to do with anything the company does. WELCOME TO FUCKING CAPITALISM. It's sad if Biden is the nominee we're going to have to put up with dumb fucking trump supporters claiming this is somehow a scandal for the next year because they are too small minded to understand how the world and business works.

[Zaydin]

Oh boy another nothingburger mm mm mmmmm

Except for Trump admitting he did it.

[Thekri]

Are the pardon powers in the constitution? If not they really should be removed.

Let's see..

he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.

Yep, it is in there. Doesn't say he can't pardon himself with, nor does it say he can't pardon before charges are brought. It is a really broad power, and frankly it needs to be. However clarification that he can't use it on himself would be extremely nice.

But he won't because even a Crook like Nixon has more integrity.

However, Nixon was actually a really good President despite his lack of integrity. He is a perfect example of a terrible person, but a good person (I consider LBJ to be similar). The list of accomplishments in Nixon's first term is staggering, and I would argue it was the most successful Presidential term at least since WWII, and possibly ever. He actually had a bold, well thought out, and ultimately successful foreign policy, he passed a huge number of conservation bills including creating the EPA, Clean Air Act, Clean Water Act (Doesn't really count, because he actually vetoed it over spending concerns, but he drove it initially) Endangered Species Act and the environmental policy act (Which requires environmental impact statements). In short, Richard Nixon is why we still have Bald Eagles, Bison, Alligators, Cougars, and wolves, as well as clean rivers and breathable air.

He also federalized Medicaid to provide it to low income families for free, created OSHA, massively boosted government spending on health research, and drove through the ERA. He was willing to compromise on some areas of Civil rights, but managed to successfully steer it into the mainstream and kill off most of the controversy. He stripped the Soviet Union of their key ally in the PRC, and created long lasting trade agreements with Asia. He ended the war in Vietnam, deescalated the space race by partnering with the Soviets, oh yeah, and we landed on the Moon.

In short, Nixon was an amazingly good President, despite being a crook. Trump has all of Nixon's lack of morals, but none of his convictions that helped the nation.

[Edge-]

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKBN1WA01M

Whistleblower complaint going to Congressional committees.

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https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...e90_story.html

President Trump’s attempt to pressure the leader of Ukraine followed a months-long fight inside the administration that sidelined national security officials and empowered political loyalists — including the president’s personal lawyer, Rudolph W. Giuliani — to exploit the U.S. relationship with Kiev, current and former U.S. officials said.

The sequence, which began early this year, involved the abrupt removal of the U.S. ambassador to Ukraine, the circumvention of senior officials on the National Security Council, and the suspension of hundreds of millions of dollars of aid administered by the Defense and State departments — all as key officials from these agencies struggled to piece together Giuliani’s activities from news reports.

Several officials described tense meetings on Ukraine among national security officials at the White House leading up to the president’s phone call on July 25, sessions that led some participants to fear that Trump and those close to him appeared prepared to use U.S. leverage with the new leader of Ukraine for Trump’s political gain.

As those worries intensified, some senior officials worked behind the scenes to hold off a Trump meeting or call with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky out of concern that Trump would use the conversation to press Kiev for damaging information on Trump’s potential rival in the 2020 race, former vice president Joe Biden, and Biden’s son, Hunter.

“An awful lot of people were trying to keep a meeting from happening for the reason that it would not be focused on Ukraine-U.S. relations,” one former official said, speaking on the condition of anonymity to discuss the sensitive matter.

White House officials disputed these accounts, saying that no such concerns were raised in National Security Council meetings and that Trump’s focus was on urging Ukraine to root out corruption. A White House spokesman did not respond to a request for comment.

...

“Rudy — he did all of this,” one U.S. official said. “This s---show that we’re in — it’s him injecting himself into the process.”

Several officials traced their initial concerns about the path of U.S.-Ukrainian relations to news reports and interviews granted by Giuliani in which he began to espouse views and concerns that did not appear connected to U.S. priorities or policy.

The former New York mayor appears to have seen Zelensky, a political neophyte elected president of Ukraine in April and sworn in in May, as a potential ally on two political fronts: punishing those Giuliani suspected of playing a role in exposing the Ukraine-related corruption of former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort, and delivering political ammunition against Biden.

After the conclusion of the Mueller investigation, Giuliani turned his attention to Ukraine, officials said, and soon began pushing for personnel changes at the embassy while seeking meetings with Zelensky subordinates. He also had his own emissaries in Ukraine who were meeting with officials, setting up meetings for him and sending back information that he could circulate in the United States.

The U.S. ambassador to Ukraine, Marie Yovanovitch, became a primary Giuliani target.

Yovanovitch, a longtime State Department Foreign Service officer, arrived in Ukraine as ambassador at the end of the Obama administration, more than two years after an uprising centered on Kiev’s Independence Square ousted the Russian-leaning government.

Though she was widely respected in the national security community for her efforts to prod Ukraine to take on corruption, Giuliani targeted Yovanovitch with wild accusations including that she played a secret role in exposing Manafort and was part of a conspiracy orchestrated by the liberal financier George Soros.

Not looking any better for Trump based on this report. More in the link.

[Thepersona]

Which leads to an interesting dilemma for Trump. If he gets voted out of office in 2020, then he can either attempt to pardon himself as a lame duck, or else face the rest of his life under continuous criminal investigations. However, if he leaves office early, Pence has more or less free reign to pardon him, since it won't hurt Pence's already abysmal chances in the general election.

So it may be in Trump's personal best interests to resign beforehand. And as we all know, it is his personal interests that matter most to him. If he has a Presidential pardon, he can still go on to run his own TV network where he screams about how he was wronged.

Remember that the NY state charges can not be pardoned.

[Thekri]

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKBN1WA01M

Whistleblower complaint going to Congressional committees.

- - - Updated - - -

https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...e90_story.html



Not looking any better for Trump based on this report. More in the link.

I mean it was pretty inevitable that Rudy would be involved in Trump's demise. If Trump had two functioning brain cells he would have fired that moron a long time ago. Rudy has never encountered a problem he couldn't make worse by talking about it.

Still, I wasn't expecting the White House to cave this fast. It is a good move on their part, and I think it dramatically increases the chance we won't actually see articles of impeachment passed by the house. I fully expect the Democrats to flake on this, and not keep up the pressure. Once they get all the evidence, I suspect they will wag their finger and move on, allowing Trump to keep crowing about a "Witch Hunt".

There is no Witch Hunt here, this is a very serious charge that seems to really be threatening the administration for the first time, and they seem to be caving at a spectacular rate. Still, I have seen Trump dodge too many things to have a lot of optimism here. Much like when the hero falls over a cliff, I want to see the corpse before I believe for a second that this is going to hurt him.

[Breccia]

“Rudy — he did all of this,” one U.S. official said. “This s---show that we’re in — it’s him injecting himself into the process.”

Damn. Now I don't know which thread this belongs in.

Though she was widely respected in the national security community for her efforts to prod Ukraine to take on corruption, Giuliani targeted Yovanovitch with wild accusations including that she played a secret role in exposing Manafort and was part of a conspiracy orchestrated by the liberal financier George Soros.

"Hey, we have to remove that ambassador, because she's going to ask for help going after a political rival! Now that she's gone, I will ask for help going after a political rival!"

Yet another case of "Republicans accusing others of what they're guilty of themselves".

[Doctor Amadeus]

However, Nixon was actually a really good President despite his lack of integrity. He is a perfect example of a terrible person, but a good person (I consider LBJ to be similar). The list of accomplishments in Nixon's first term is staggering, and I would argue it was the most successful Presidential term at least since WWII, and possibly ever. He actually had a bold, well thought out, and ultimately successful foreign policy, he passed a huge number of conservation bills including creating the EPA, Clean Air Act, Clean Water Act (Doesn't really count, because he actually vetoed it over spending concerns, but he drove it initially) Endangered Species Act and the environmental policy act (Which requires environmental impact statements). In short, Richard Nixon is why we still have Bald Eagles, Bison, Alligators, Cougars, and wolves, as well as clean rivers and breathable air.

He also federalized Medicaid to provide it to low income families for free, created OSHA, massively boosted government spending on health research, and drove through the ERA. He was willing to compromise on some areas of Civil rights, but managed to successfully steer it into the mainstream and kill off most of the controversy. He stripped the Soviet Union of their key ally in the PRC, and created long lasting trade agreements with Asia. He ended the war in Vietnam, deescalated the space race by partnering with the Soviets, oh yeah, and we landed on the Moon.

In short, Nixon was an amazingly good President, despite being a crook. Trump has all of Nixon's lack of morals, but none of his convictions that helped the nation.

Well Hitler did some great things to aside from that whole murdering entire segments of the German population. I mean what do you imagine the crime rate was in in 1934?

I bet you it was pretty damn low.

Didn't Hitler also bring Germany economic progress the likes that had never been seen?

As to Trump, I don't completely disagree with ALL of his policies, HELL I even support SOME of his initiatives. However here is the problem and the difference between Hitler, Nixon and Trump.

Trump is horrible in spite of himself, he is the perfect collection of unchecked greed and stupidity. I honestly believe if he had run as a Democrat it would have been just as bad.

Trump is a Con man, and evolutionary dead end, he doesn't know anything and there is nothing he has ever done that didn't have someone else's writing all over it. If they succeed he took the credit, if they failed he pointed to them for blame.

Never taking responsibility and never actually knowing what it means to speak the words he stumbles over in his speeches.

He's a racist, sexist and homophobic idiot, but that isn't new, but hell at least those that came before him succeeded.

There is one honor Trump has that no other national leader or politician to take office has ever had, he is singularly the stupidest human being to exist on a national scale. Hell shit even some of his so called converts like Kanye West and Kim Kardashian probably as close to being as stupid as Trump.

It's no wonder Con Artist and idiots look to him as a role model for just how far they can ruin people and achieve shit they didn't earn. Just lie tell more lies and keep telling them until people who don't know any better will buy your bullshit.

That will be Trumps legacy and that makes him worse than Nixon

Stupidity kills and causes more suffering than just about anything else. When you throw out any standards or moral compass that allows a person to become accountable and responsible, this is the result.

So bottom line is Nixon was loved and admired, but just as any leader some good things happened regardless. Nixon at least was as smart as he was corrupt. Trump is just Kim Kardashian on the right.