Mega-Thread: Impeachment Proceedings & Inquiry of Trump

[Elegiac]

Obstruction in an impeachment probe isn't the same as obstruction in a criminal investigation. It's just another thing that can be added to the articles of impeachment that will be laughed out of the Senate. (i.e. it ultimately means nothing)

Yep.

And while Donald Trump is busy ragetweeting at the proceedings, he'll be unable to devote his attention to the Democratic candidate as they are out campaigning and showing clips of John Goodman narrating the various text messages and such coming out of the administration in the wake of this Ukraine scandal.

Meanwhile, all GOP members present will have to sign their names either to Donald Trump's impeachment, or endorsing blatant corruption and misuse of public funds - both outcomes that will be featured in every Democratic attack add in the 2020 cycle as they cast the former as traitors to the Trump cause, and the latter as part of the swamp to be excised.

Pelosi outmaneuvered these chucklefucks so far, so I'm fairly confident.

[Edge-]

Abusing a weakness/loophole in the House Rules to deny precedent and due process is the Democrat's prerogative.

What does "deny precedent" mean? Are you talking about following norms? Because if so, you can blame Republicans for blowing up almost every Congressional norm around over the past 3 years.

And how is Trump being denied due process? There is no trial, this is just an investigation right now.

Just as it is the White House' prerogative to use every legal recourse to put them in their place and force them to do what they're unwilling to do.

It is! And we'll likely see plenty of lawsuits over this, and given the administrations batting average on this they won't be winning many of these court battles.

It doesn't help with the kinds of legal arguments they make are, "The president is literally above the law."

[Elegiac]

Hell, Elegiac can't make up his mind in his posts between admitting that it's nothing more than a distraction and meant to stop Trump from legislating or whether its something the Democrats can actually pull off.

Porque no los dos?

The only difference is whether or not enough Republicans manage to grow a spine and admit that enough is enough.

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You can deny precedent, and I'll deny your whataboutism. We're not talking about other Congressional norms, we're talking about this super cereal impeachment.

Author's Note: To Republicans, the only 'serious' Congressional norms are the ones that don't threaten their political agenda.

[Orbitus]

Your post speaks volumes...ty.

That you are ignorant of reality? We know.

[Edge-]

You can deny precedent, and I'll deny your whataboutism. We're not talking about other Congressional norms, we're talking about this super cereal impeachment.

Literally don't know what you're trying to say here.

As far as the lawsuits, that takes time, time the Democrats don't have.

Things move pretty quickly, see Trumps latest loss on his taxes in New York -

Sued on September 19 - https://www.politico.com/story/2019/...-taxes-1502799
Humiliated by a judge for offering such a piss poor legal argument and lost on October 7 - https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/07/n...uit-vance.html

That's less than a month and remember, each instance of this attempted stonewalling is just another bullet point if impeachment proceedings begin and obstruction of justice is included.

[Edge-]

When you're left with appealing to a lie (i.e. getting Republicans to forsake their entire position for some false sense of morality in D.C.), you're not left with much at all...

What do you mean "a lie"?

Remember fiscal responsibility? Yeah, that was a lie from Republicans and the past 3 years have shown that.

Remember their hemming and hawing about security relating to Hillary's email server? Yeah, Trump's daughter and son-in-law have their own private emails they use for government communications, and we have repeated instances of extremely poor security procedures in the White House including Trump literally tweeting out an image from one of our most classified spy satellites for foreign powers to analyze its capabilities.

Free market economy? Tariffs say hello.

I could go on if you want.

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LOL, I can see you're not a serious person when throwing up a lower court ruling by an Obama appointee as something to be worried about. It was immediately appealed and will be headed to the desk of less clearly biased people to look at eventually. That's not a win, hoss.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victor_Marrero

Clinton, actually. Helps to get your facts straight if you're going to try to undermine a judges authority and credibility.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...mp/2083399002/

And it's not just "Obama appointees", Bush appointed judges have repeatedly ruled against Trump because, as shown with the New York tax case, the Trumps lawyers are garbage of the highest order.

[Elegiac]

When you're left with appealing to a lie (i.e. getting Republicans to forsake their entire position for some false sense of morality in D.C.), you're not left with much at all...

That's cute, Karen, but there's no "lie" involved.

We've all read the text messages and the transcripts. Trump admitted his actions several times. He and his staff know it was unethical and illegal, which is why they tried to cover it up - and public opinion is reflective of how clear cut this incident actually is. So while the weight of evidence may not be enough to convince the chudly circles of the internet, the reality is that most people can see this for what this is; and the GOP is aware of it. Which is why so many are retiring, and why there's so much grumbling behind the scenes in the Senate.

They hang on to Trump because they are afraid of his base, not because the allegations are spurious.

[Dontrike]

You know we talk about quite a lot more in this forum than that? I know it's hard for you and others to stay focused on topic when you have no actual way of winning this thing that you like to bluster about, re: impeachment.

Hell, Elegiac can't make up his mind in his posts between admitting that it's nothing more than a distraction and meant to stop Trump from legislating or whether its something the Democrats can actually pull off.

Considering the Dem's very poor track record of getting Trump after so many promises, I would definitely try to keep a healthy sense of skepticism about your sides' ability to do so after 3 years of failing.

So adorable, we're now at the point of insults. Considering Trump's poor track record of everything the fact you still cling to him like a newborn is hilarious. You keep shilling though in sure he'll hire you any day now.

[Elegiac]

Yeah and we have Democrats... coming out in favor of war this week.

So, we've resorted to blatantly lying now have we?

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Well, the original point was that the court cases will take time (+ appeals). Democrats have to get this thing wrapped up before the new year if they don't want to ride the polls and not look like they're blatantly interfering in the election. Good luck.

The polls which....show a steady and increasing support for impeachment inquiries and proceedings.

Right. Funnily enough, I think most people can make the distinction between interfering with an election and putting a criminal on trial.

[cubby]

That's cute, Karen, but there's no "lie" involved.

We've all read the text messages and the transcripts. Trump admitted his actions several times. He and his staff know it was unethical and illegal, which is why they tried to cover it up - and public opinion is reflective of how clear cut this incident actually is. So while the weight of evidence may not be enough to convince the chudly circles of the internet, the reality is that most people can see this for what this is; and the GOP is aware of it. Which is why so many are retiring, and why there's so much grumbling behind the scenes in the Senate.

They hang on to Trump because they are afraid of his base, not because the allegations are spurious.

And this is why the Trumpkins are so desperate to deflect and dismiss. Their Dear Leader was caught red handed, and the Trumpkins are still playing their same old games. Trump broke the law, admitted it, then provided the documentation to prove it. Over and done with - we're really just waiting for the vote at this point. People like @Sulla are so detached from reality they've convinced themselves that Trump's lies actually mean something. It would be adorable if it wasn't so sad.

[cubby]

I'm glad you can find so many ways to think you're winning when you're going to clearly lose this in the Senate. As it stands, there is literally zero chance that Trump is convicted there.

Awwwww, look at you, thinking that political winds never change. Adorable as always.

[Elegiac]

I'm glad you can find so many ways to think you're winning when you're going to clearly lose this in the Senate. As it stands, there is literally zero chance that Trump is convicted there.

I mean we've still got a long way before Pelosi initiates the trial after Super Tuesday wraps up.

I'm sure we'll see plenty Moore leaks from the administration in the meantime.

[Shadowferal]

*shrugs*
Court cases take time, add appeals...and it drags out. And when Trump loses all of them, he fumes...has his little temper tantrum and refuses to cooperate anyway, calling it all illegal and unconstitutional no matter what the law is.
Fuck that.

[Dontrike]

When you're left with appealing to a lie (i.e. getting Republicans to forsake their entire position for some false sense of morality in D.C.), you're not left with much at all...

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LOL, I can see you're not a serious person when throwing up a lower court ruling by an Obama appointee as something to be worried about. It was immediately appealed and will be headed to the desk of less clearly biased people to look at eventually. That's not a win, hoss.

False sense of morality? Tell what a true sense is, I'm sure it's awesome.

What lie is that?

It's definitely a loss. Answer this. Why would Trump protect his taxes this much? If he has nothing to hide and nothing illegal the quickest way for this to stop would be to release them and show it's fine and yet he doesn't.

[Elegiac]

Just waiting for the vote, lol? You're lucky McConnell is even giving you one.

> Complains about Democrats not following precedent in not holding a floor vote for an inquiry
> Threatens to not have a vote on impeachment at all

Pot, kettle, et cetera.

[cubby]

Just waiting for the vote, lol? You're lucky McConnell is even giving you one.

Well yeah. Do you think this is a trial still?

[Edge-]

Yeah and we have Democrats acting like they care about the deficit

They do. That's why they generally try to offset additional spending with revenue increases or cuts elsewhere. Meanwhile, Republicans are running recession level deficits during a strong economy so...

and coming out in favor of war this week.

This is not remotely correct when discussing the situation in Northern Syria.

A lot of us here are capable of drawing colored and reductive paradoxes to make cheap political arguments.

And some of us use facts to underpin these arguments, while you seem more concerned with fiction.

Well, the original point was that the court cases will take time (+ appeals). Democrats have to get this thing wrapped up before the new year if they don't want to ride the polls and not look like they're blatantly interfering in the election. Good luck.

So the Trump strategy isn't to prove that Trump is innocent and that this is all a witch hunt, which should be easy if he's innocent and this is a witch hunt, but...to try to run out the clock?

[Shadowferal]

Please, don't feed "that guy."

Has everyone realized that no one in the GOP has actually defended Trump's actions? They decry Democrats...they condemn this or that going down...but not one in congress has gone to the wall, constitutionally-speaking for Trump.

[Machismo]

Yeah and we have Democrats acting like they care about the deficit and coming out in favor of war this week. A lot of us here are capable of drawing colored and reductive paradoxes to make cheap political arguments.

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Well, the original point was that the court cases will take time (+ appeals). Democrats have to get this thing wrapped up before the new year if they don't want to ride the polls and not look like they're blatantly interfering in the election. Good luck.

It's rather odd that Democrats care more about fiscal responsibility and capitalism than you Trumpsters do.

[Dontrike]

Polls change over time, especially when it comes to impeachment, didn't you know?

And the way those pills have changed is more people liking the idea of impeachment, man you're bad at this.