Mega-Thread: Impeachment Proceedings & Inquiry of Trump

[Machismo]

How did I lose, lol? This is all about what we'll get the Senate to agree to.

Clearly, your heavy bias means you cannot be trusted, so we shouldn't care what you say. Thanks for arguing against yourself... twice.

[Machismo]

You guys have fun with him, he's already lost twice in the span of five minutes, that's enough for me.

I do enjoy getting people to argue against themselves.

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I have enough evidence to be extremely personally dubious about it all. Which is as much as I said. And is how things work in a legal proceeding when you start from a presumption of innocence and consider circumstantial second-hand accounts from biased sources.

So... no evidence, thanks for admitting it.

[Sorshen]

What's the point in engaging with Sulla? He's one of the most intellectually dishonest posters. Crooks defending crooks.

I'm glad you can find so many ways to think you're winning when you're going to clearly lose this in the Senate. As it stands, there is literally zero chance that Trump is convicted there.

Just waiting for the vote, lol? You're lucky McConnell is even giving you one.

[Elegiac]

Nah, we're just fed up with Democrats trying to get another 2016 re-do. Now that it's going to inevitably spill over into the election season for 2020, enough is enough.

Who is "we"? The minority of American citizens that still support Trump? Lol.

[Thepersona]

The people he is accusing of being "crooks".

All it takes is enough voters positioned in the right places to support him more than his eventual opponent. Or did you not actually learn the lesson you needed to from 2016?

And this is not the same as the majority of americans.
Sulla, You (and your POV) is losing. Badly. The support for the inquiry is almost at 60% and removal is almost at 50%. This is 2 weeks in.

[Bodakane]

The people he is accusing of being "crooks".

All it takes is enough voters positioned in the right places to support him more than his eventual opponent. Or did you not actually learn the lesson you needed to from 2016?

Blue Wave says "hi".

[Thepersona]

Congrats on winning elections you were supposed to win. Not the ones that ultimately mattered for passing any of your agenda, btw.

Dude, that's the last election that was done in the Trump adm. And he was trounced.
He's royally fucked, and will be running defense for... at the very least, 6 months

[Pendulous]

Guy guys, don't you get it? You're not allowed to have a political opinion, like at all. If you do, you can't be trusted for anything ever again, because of said political bias.

EVERYONE has a political leaning. Everyone who says "his testimony is null and void because he's for the other side" is delusional.

[Thepersona]

This really isn't the thread for re-arguing the 2018 mid-terms. You should already know that it's not some major surprise and mandate that the Dems picked up the majority there. Presidential elections are an entirely different beast.

Further, winning the house doesn't afford you the ability to fully abuse committees and rules for political means, unchallenged.

Lastly, Trump isn't your grandpa's President. If you think that he's just going to sit back and take it, you got another thing coming. Thursday's rally should be a pretty good indication of what you have to look forward to.

What?
Winning the house gives said house party the power of oversight. And remember that midterm elections have been terrible for democrats, mostly because of gerrymandering, and also because of low turnout and even then, the GOP got trounced. The House has the right of subpoena, and refusing to do it is ground of being slapped with obstruction of justice.

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Guy guys, don't you get it? You're not allowed to have a political opinion, like at all. If you do, you can't be trusted for anything ever again, because of said political bias.

EVERYONE has a political leaning. Everyone who says "his testimony is null and void because he's for the other side" is delusional.

Well... we're talking with a person who backed child diddler moore... and thought that moore would win... and that the kavarape case would make the red wave... somehow happen.

[Elegiac]

It's not always relevant, and it's not always irrelevant. The IG thought it was worth mentioning and now it's come out from the close-door meeting that the guy worked for a 2020 Dem. The "evidence" was already circumstantial and second-hand, this put another layer of doubt on top of it. And I don't think I should have to remind the forum for the umpteenth time who the burden of evidence is upon. Okay I will, it's on the side where they won't even give the defense the ability to subpoena as has been the case with every other Presidential impeachment in our history. This isn't looking good for Dems at all.

Thanks for outing the GOP as Trump's public defenders and not, in fact, representatives of their constituents.

[Thepersona]

Listen, I don't mind debating with you, but the minute you take it to a completely off-topic conversation, I know that it's not worth my time.

As far as what you said about the House, you're absolutely correct. They're just as much in their right to have oversight and subpoena as the President is to call a foreign leader and urge them to investigate corruption.

This did not happen.
Stop lying

[Levelfive]

Guy guys, don't you get it? You're not allowed to have a political opinion, like at all. If you do, you can't be trusted for anything ever again, because of said political bias.

EVERYONE has a political leaning. Everyone who says "his testimony is null and void because he's for the other side" is delusional.

Not to mention the guy could be a card-carrying member of the Purple Clown party--the details in his complaint have already been affirmed by the White House.

[Elegiac]

I outed the Dems for abusing the whistleblower statute because their shenanigans wouldn't stand up otherwise. It's critical that we don't know who made these accusations, because no only are they completely biased and in bed with the Democrat Party - the Democrat Party doesn't believe in due process and that the accused should be able to face their accusers.

Or because the threat of retaliation is credible enough to warrant their identity being kept a secret.

Again; this isn't a trial yet, due process doesn't apply. Show me the law where they have to hold a floor vote, boyo, cause I can show you a law where bribery is an impeachable offense.

[Edge-]

The IG and his findings aren't above reproach and don't serve as standalone evidence of guilt. For me, the credibility of the whistleblower was out the window the minute I saw his legal briefing, excuse me, complaint that was clearly written by some Congressional staffers.

I see, so everyone is a secret liberal and can't be trusted, then.

Also, you're grossly misrepresenting his contact with the House Intelligence Committee's aides at best, and flat out lying otherwise. But this seems par for the course for conservatives and Trump defenders in these times.

[nonameelf]

It's not always relevant, and it's not always irrelevant. The IG thought it was worth mentioning and now it's come out from the close-door meeting that the guy worked for a 2020 Dem. The "evidence" was already circumstantial and second-hand, this put another layer of doubt on top of it. And I don't think I should have to remind the forum for the umpteenth time who the burden of evidence is upon. Okay I will, it's on the side where they won't even give the defense the ability to subpoena as has been the case with every other Presidential impeachment in our history. This isn't looking good for Dems at all.

Um, do you even know how investigations work? The "defense" does not get to subpoena anything.

And the Republicans in the House ARE NOT TRUMP'S DEFENSE. They're supposed to provide oversight for the presidency. There was a credible complaint about the president. The job of Republicans is the same as the Democrats: To investigate possible wrongdoing.

The Senate holds the trial. That's where Trump's defense will be from his own lawyers, not from lawmakers. The House is the investigation, which is what they're doing right now and Trump is obstructing.

[Levelfive]

I see, so everyone is a secret liberal and can't be trusted, then.

Also, you're grossly misrepresenting his contact with the House Intelligence Committee's aides at best, and flat out lying otherwise. But this seems par for the course for conservatives and Trump defenders in these times.

Including Trump, apparently, whose very own words match the whistleblower's account.

[nonameelf]

In every Presidential impeachment process to date, both sides of the committee are permitted to have subpoena power. As far as the rest of what you're saying, that's just political semantics.

Republicans just want the power to block Democrat subpoenas. McCarthy said as much.

And no, the rest is not semantics. Republicans are NOT Trump's defense and the impeachment is NOT a trial.

[Thepersona]

You're going to have to be the one to prove a negative, friend. I mean, if you have end-all, be-all proof, I'm sure the Democrats would love to hear from you.

Nope, in this case, you have the burden of proof. You have to prove that the current evidence, alongside Trump penchant for doing shady shit, and being an awful human being, that all he wanted to do is to search for evidence of corruption (that, according to a lot of people doesnt exist), and not get dirt (real or imagined) on a political oponent (because that is what happened with clinton).

[Thepersona]

Impeachment is a political process and has a lot of aspects that aren't congruent with traditional criminal investigations. I agree with your point. However, due process and presumption of innocence is still a very important concept and American value. I'm sorry you don't agree.

In a trial. This is not a trial... it's more like, the pre-trial

[nonameelf]

Impeachment is a political process and has a lot of aspects that aren't congruent with traditional criminal investigations. I agree with your point. However, due process and presumption of innocence is still a very important concept and American value. I'm sorry you don't agree.

The impeachment is the process set out in the constitution. If you don't like it, change the constitution.