Mega-Thread: Impeachment Proceedings & Inquiry of Trump

[Zaydin]

The latest testimony was behind closed doors. We don't know.

The impressions I've been seeing is that what we know of what Bill Taylor said is pretty damning for Trump.

The issue comes from the GOP willingly blinding and deafening themselves so that they can keep declaring they haven't seen or heard anything impeachable.

[Breccia]

The impressions I've been seeing is that what we know of what Bill Taylor said is pretty damning for Trump.

Here's the thing: we have three results from that testimony.

A) Taylor's public opening statement.
B) What Democrats have said as they left the hearing.
C) What Republicans have said when they left the hearing.

Now, to a certain extent, A should break the tie between B and C. But the Republicans, what few quotes we got, basically said "we have nothing new". That's possibly true, seeing as how we knew there was a quid pro quo already. The Republicans saying such are, therefore, saying Trump holding foreign aid that they themselves voted for hostage, in exchange for opening an investigation into a political rival, is 100% acceptable.

What an unattached person might call damning is being handwaved. The GOP has their reasons, but, they're not exactly good reasons, as evidenced by the Republicans who voted to condemn Schiff for, big irony points here, lying to them and withholding documents. While defending Trump.

We have a growing collection of people working for Trump (multiple people who testified, the whisteblower, and the ICIG) who have all said the same thing: Trump extorted Ukraine. What little evidence Trump has chosen to reveal, after editing it of course, is being held up as some kind of exculpatory thing while the actual evidence is blocked by ignored subpoenas and the National Security Lol server the phone call is in.

In addition to everything else, such as Mueller's "I can't prosecute him for all this evidence", G7 at Trump's hotel, the largest tax increase in American history with nothing to show for it, the betrayal of our Kurdish allies in exchange for multiple dictators and ISIS gains, GDP growth under 2% and the Trump shutdown, plus what is likely dozens of other things in the last 1500 pages in the Shitshow thread.

Yes, it's probably damning. But the GOP have no other option.

[Paranoid Android]

Let's Go!!

[Skroe]

Reading the opening statement again.

If Donald Trump is not removed as President, the United States will no longer be a country that respects and follows the rule of law. It is that simple.

He cannot remain as President, if the word of the Constitution is to have any legitimacy whatsoever.

If he survives, the next Democrat who comes to power should push the Constitution to the absolute limit, and unilaterally press for nationwide firearm seizures from private owners. Because the Second Amendment is no more or no less legitimate than Article II, section 4 (impeachment). They are the same. If we do not uphold the latter, why should we uphold the former.

So how important is Trump to his defenders, big picture? Because sticking by Trump unleashes a living nightmare for you the second a Democrat becomes President. And yes, that is a threat.

If the word of the Constitution is a guideline, rather than a rule, then it must be applied to all sections of it.

Take their guns.

[the game]

Reading the opening statement again.

If Donald Trump is not removed as President, the United States will no longer be a country that respects and follows the rule of law. It is that simple.

He cannot remain as President, if the word of the Constitution is to have any legitimacy whatsoever.

If he survives, the next Democrat who comes to power should push the Constitution to the absolute limit, and unilaterally press for nationwide firearm seizures from private owners. Because the Second Amendment is no more or no less legitimate than Article II, section 4 (impeachment). They are the same. If we do not uphold the latter, why should we uphold the former.

So how important is Trump to his defenders, big picture? Because sticking by Trump unleashes a living nightmare for you the second a Democrat becomes President. And yes, that is a threat.

If the word of the Constitution is a guideline, rather than a rule, then it must be applied to all sections of it.

Take their guns.

are you suggesting that democrats will let people keep their guns including assault rifles if people let trump get impeached?

[Skroe]

are you suggesting that democrats will let people keep their guns including assault rifles if people let trump get impeached?

That's not the point I'm making. I'm saying all the Constitution is valid, or none of it is. And we either protect all of it, or start openly disregarding it whenever we're in power.

Trump calling the emoluments clause 'phony' tells you what he and his supporters think about the Constitution. They're fans of the parts that work for them... and not the parts that work against them.

Well the emoluments clause isn't phony. It's the law. And Trump, who self-deals, will face a reckoning over that. But more penitently, the grounds of impeachment are quite clear. Trump engaged in bribery. The evidence is ironclad. The smoking gun is in. By the words of the constitution, he must be removed from office. He cannot be President anymore. He fucked up. And if there is anyone you should be mad about over this, it's him. Because there was no Ukraine bribery episode until this summer. He chose to do this. No one forced him.

If Trump supporters are loyal to the Constitution over the man, by virtue of the facts presented not in the least today by his own Ambassador, they have to demand Trump's resignation (and I call on you to do so now) in order to preserve the sanctity and legitimacy of the Constitution.

If you give Trump and out, because you like him, then you and nobody else but you is responsible for the violations Democrats will be entitled to engage in when its their term to be President.

So ask yourself, how important is another year to five years Trump to you? You really think there is a permanent win condition coming out of it. I promise you, it's not. The next Democratic President will undo as much of Trump's era as possible within the first year. Did Obama not assault Bush's legacy? Did Trump not assault Obama's? You think we're in some permanent state now? We're not.

Let Trump violate the Constitution now, and one day, the bill will come due. It always comes due. And the target will likely be your guns. And if Trump gets away with his crimes now, you wont be able to do much to stop a Democratic President that comes for them.

[draynay]

are you suggesting that

Work on your logic, might have a better shot at future lame internet "gotchas".

[Pannonian]

Just enslave everyone with a MAGA hat.

If the constitution is phony anyway...

[Blur4stuff]

Democrats aren't going to take your guns. They weren't going to do it under Obama and they won't do it starting in 2021 either. The furthest you'll ever see them go is a voluntary buyback. They are not and will never forcibly enter your homes and take your guns.

Many democrats are very ardent supporters of the 2nd amendment. The furthest you'd ever see them go is slightly stricter gun related laws regarding background checks, mentally ill, etc...

Don't let the crazy right wing conspiracy theory of dems taking everyone's guns influence how you vote. It's 100% not true.

[Skroe]

Democrats aren't going to take your guns. They weren't going to do it under Obama and they won't do it starting in 2021 either. The furthest you'll ever see them go is a voluntary buyback. They are not and will never forcibly enter your homes and take your guns.

Many democrats are very ardent supporters of the 2nd amendment. The furthest you'd ever see them go is slightly stricter gun related laws regarding background checks, mentally ill, etc...

Don't let the crazy right wing conspiracy theory of dems taking everyone's guns influence how you vote. It's 100% not true.

I was more-so making the point that we can't pick and choose what parts of the Constitution we follow. A person can't be "#Strong2A" without also being "#StrongArticle2Section4".

We must assault this part of the Trumhadi's hypocrisy.

[the game]

That's not the point I'm making. I'm saying all the Constitution is valid, or none of it is. And we either protect all of it, or start openly disregarding it whenever we're in power.

Trump calling the emoluments clause 'phony' tells you what he and his supporters think about the Constitution. They're fans of the parts that work for them... and not the parts that work against them.

Well the emoluments clause isn't phony. It's the law. And Trump, who self-deals, will face a reckoning over that. But more penitently, the grounds of impeachment are quite clear. Trump engaged in bribery. The evidence is ironclad. The smoking gun is in. By the words of the constitution, he must be removed from office. He cannot be President anymore. He fucked up. And if there is anyone you should be mad about over this, it's him. Because there was no Ukraine bribery episode until this summer. He chose to do this. No one forced him.

If Trump supporters are loyal to the Constitution over the man, by virtue of the facts presented not in the least today by his own Ambassador, they have to demand Trump's resignation (and I call on you to do so now) in order to preserve the sanctity and legitimacy of the Constitution.

If you give Trump and out, because you like him, then you and nobody else but you is responsible for the violations Democrats will be entitled to engage in when its their term to be President.

So ask yourself, how important is another year to five years Trump to you? You really think there is a permanent win condition coming out of it. I promise you, it's not. The next Democratic President will undo as much of Trump's era as possible within the first year. Did Obama not assault Bush's legacy? Did Trump not assault Obama's? You think we're in some permanent state now? We're not.

Let Trump violate the Constitution now, and one day, the bill will come due. It always comes due. And the target will likely be your guns. And if Trump gets away with his crimes now, you wont be able to do much to stop a Democratic President that comes for them.

So you're ok with leaving guns alone then right? Because either all the constitution is valid or none of it is

[Skroe]

So you're ok with leaving guns alone then right? Because either all the constitution is valid or none of it is

Yup. The Second Amendment is a thing. Gun control, such as it exists, is an issue for the States within the confines of the Second Amendment.

Now do you have the integrity to say "Trump must go?". The evidence of his actions is in. The question isn't "if Trump did it". He did. He admitted to it. His chief of staff admitted to it. Witness after witness, most damning his Ambassador to Ukraine on Tuesday, have expanded and corroborated it. His abuse of power is a fact. The question now is "what do we do about it.

I again call on you to demand Trump's resignation over corruption relating to Ukraine. Will you do that?

[the game]

Yup. The Second Amendment is a thing. Gun control, such as it exists, is an issue for the States within the confines of the Second Amendment.

Now do you have the integrity to say "Trump must go?". The evidence of his actions is in. The question isn't "if Trump did it". He did. He admitted to it. His chief of staff admitted to it. Witness after witness, most damning his Ambassador to Ukraine on Tuesday, have expanded and corroborated it. His abuse of power is a fact. The question now is "what do we do about it.

I again call on you to demand Trump's resignation over corruption relating to Ukraine. Will you do that?

Of course he should be impeached if he's guilty. Everyone should be held responsible for their actions. People should be willing to admit they fucked up.

[Skroe]

Of course he should be impeached if he's guilty. Everyone should be held responsible for their actions. People should be willing to admit they fucked up.

Uh-uh. Nope. Nice try but nope. Given the significant corroborating testimony, especially today, there is no question of "if" anymore. This is not a court and the standards are not the standards of a court trial.

I'll quote from Ambassador Taylor:

"During that phone call, Amb. Sondland told me that President Trump had told him that he wants President [Volodymyr] Zelensky to state publicly that Ukraine will investigate Burisma and alleged Ukrainian interference in the 2016 election.

Amb. Sondland also told me that he now recognized that he had made a mistake by earlier telling the Ukrainian officials to whom he spoke that a White House meeting with President Zelensky was dependent on a public announcement of investigations — in fact, Amb. Sondland said, ‘everything’ was dependent on such an announcement, including security assistance.

He said that President Trump wanted President Zelensky ‘in a public box’ by making a public statement about ordering such investigations."

There we go.

I asked if you would demand Trump's resignation off of the evidence at hand that he violated the Constitution, Article II Section 4 (Bribery).

Do you demand he resign, as of now?

[Redwyrm]

Of course he should be impeached if he's guilty. Everyone should be held responsible for their actions. People should be willing to admit they fucked up.

This isn't about Trump admitting he made a booboo.

This is like shooting someone five times "by accident" and then when the police and media show up, you run over and shot the person again in front of them. You don't get to say "oops" and say you didn't know what you were doing was wrong.

[Orbitus]

Of course he should be impeached if he's guilty. Everyone should be held responsible for their actions. People should be willing to admit they fucked up.

There is no if here anymore. Literally EVERYONE but Sondland, has confirmed everything in the whistleblower complaint, has confirmed the transcript that Trump did extort Ukraine. There is nothing else here as a possibility. Either you follow the constitution, or you are a traitorous piece of crap that needs to be removed from office along with Trump.

[Skroe]

There is no if here anymore. Literally EVERYONE but Sondland, has confirmed everything in the whistleblower complaint, has confirmed the transcript that Trump did extort Ukraine. There is nothing else here as a possibility. Either you follow the constitution, or you are a traitorous piece of crap that needs to be removed from office along with Trump.

And to go with this, Democrats had Sondland, not a real diplomat, walk right into a trap like a pro by getting him to testify first, then have the respected career professional Ambassador follow him later and point out, basically, were Sondland lied by omission or left blanks

Among others, Sondland is in a pile of shit at the moment.

[Orbitus]

And to go with this, Democrats had Sondland, not a real diplomat, walk right into a trap like a pro by getting him to testify first, then have the respected career professional Ambassador follow him later and point out, basically, were Sondland lied by omission or left blanks

Among others, Sondland is in a pile of shit at the moment.

There absolutely should be perjury charges coming his way any fucking minute.

[Skroe]

There absolutely should be perjury charges coming his way any fucking minute.

That would involve Democrats growing a spine. Most elected Democrats are still stuck in the obsolete world where public shame is punishment enough. They don't know how to operate in this new world where people are shameless.

They're bloodless. They will continue to be bloodless. They're damn lucky that the Trump people are perhaps the most incompetent conspirators in modern American history. Stupid Wategate II: The Stupidiest Watergate is absolutely accurate. America is lucky these people are just... complete idiots.

[Shalcker]

Reading the opening statement again.

If Donald Trump is not removed as President, the United States will no longer be a country that respects and follows the rule of law. It is that simple.

*Will finally be revealed to most people as country that neither respects nor follows law.

It will not just "become" one that instant - such outcome would be result of it already being lawless in regard to powerful people.