Mega-Thread: Impeachment Proceedings & Inquiry of Trump

[Skroe]

Bill Taylor sounds like the guy who is narrating the award winning documentary on this from the year 2030.

Democrats are crushing this and we've barely begun. Very smart move making Taylor the first witness. Creates a clear framing.

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ROFLMAO

Counsel: "And now I want to spend a little time reading the transcript, as we've been encouraged to do"

That's lawyer for "go fuck yourself Donald Trump."

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Coming up: Trumpublicans beclown themselves.

[Edge-]

Man, I heard a bit of Taylor's opening statement and the first few Q's on the way in and can't listen at work really...I hope there are some good summaries by the end of the day.

Edit: Oh shit, NPR has links to local stations so I can half-listen in when I'm not stuck in meetings! <3 NPR

[PACOX]

Quick TLDW of the 1st half: The men said everything we know but we get to hear it from their mouth breaking down the significance of Ukrainian aid and what/how Trump withheld it for people who haven't been following since the beginning.

Its pretty damning.

[Somewhatconcerned]

It's too bad all the recent Stephen Miller stuff will get swept under the rug because the spotlight isn't big enough to share.

This is a big deal. Not a surprise, mind you, but it's not getting the attention it deserves.

I'm calling it now - he runs for President at some point. Who better to take the mantle from Trump and keep the base going? This is the timeline we live in, I guess.

[omerome]

Ugh. Devin Nunes gets to ruin my monitor with his presence.

Why are guys like him allowed to be responsible for anything important?

[Stormspellz]

Ugh. Devin Nunes gets to ruin my monitor with his presence.

Why are guys like him allowed to be responsible for anything important?

yes I love the conspiracy theory run down he's doing atm

[Skroe]

Ahhhh here we go.

The John Solomon Ukraine Conspiracy Theory put on the Congressional Record.

You know, I've read conservative publications for close to 20 years. And for a good chunk of that, sure there was some clear bullshit. But much of it was principled. But in the last five years, it's gone absolutely nuts.

John Solomon
Andrew McCarthy
Ticker Carlson
Mark Levin
Ben Shapiro
Dan Bongino
Charlie Kirk
Dinesh D'Souza

The list goes on.

Whats telling is that the Weekly Standard collapsed, and many of the above people applauded.

What's telling is the RedState.com purge.

What's telling is how National Review, which spent nearly three years playing both sides of all things Trump, just purged all of it's anti-Trumpers, who are going to the Bulwark or their own new publication, this Dispatch.

We live in a time of looters on the right. Petty men interested purely in value extraction and advancing themselves, and not building our country. That list above is filled to the brim with cranks, non-serious people and outright trolls.

But they are what represents the most influential voices in modern day Trump Republican Party.

And now the conspiracy theory of among the worst among them - John Solomon - is being used as a defense, inside the hallowed halls of American democracy.

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John Ratcliffe, the guy who Trump wanted to be Director of National Intelligence until his bullshit resume came out.

Trump just knows how to pick them.

[Warning]

Bill Taylor can not make it more simple for you folks. I can sense the frustration in this man who has worked for America all his life. Here is a man that came into his job in Kiev expecting a professional approach, working through official channels to support American interests. Instead he found himself in a freak situation where his work was being undermined by weird backchannel groups containing people with no experience and working for the pathetically small goal of improving Donald Trumps standing.

I feel sorry for him, America has deeply failed this man.

[omerome]

It's an obvious difference in the way the different counsels are conducting their line of questioning.

Daniel Goldman literally allows both Taylor and Kent to reference their own notes with his questions vs Steve Castor who is imo, fishing, where many of his questions have the witnesses basically saying, "I don't know" or they can't answer it.

[Thekri]

It's an obvious difference in the way the different counsels are conducting their line of questioning.

Daniel Goldman literally allows both Taylor and Kent to reference their own notes with his questions vs Steve Castor who is imo, fishing, where many of his questions have the witnesses basically saying, "I don't know" or they can't answer it.

It fits the bill with what they need though. He is a good enough lawyer to know the facts aren't on his side, so he is throwing up a big enough smoke screen to hide behind. And it has a good chance to work, it will give people that desperately want to believe Trump is innocent enough cover to believe so.

[Ashina]

It's an obvious difference in the way the different counsels are conducting their line of questioning.

Daniel Goldman literally allows both Taylor and Kent to reference their own notes with his questions vs Steve Castor who is imo, fishing, where many of his questions have the witnesses basically saying, "I don't know" or they can't answer it.

It's disgusting how obvious this is. Queue the "I don't know" reel on Fox in an hour or 2. Never mind the "I can't recall..." defense Trumpkins have used for 3 years.

[beanman12345]

Why does it not surprise me this is the guy behind most of the Benghazi questioning.

[Gestopft]

So the Republicans want to...impeach Hunter Biden?

[Elegiac]

So the Republicans want to...impeach Hunter Biden?

Fully expecting them to call one of these machines used to drive away loitering teenagers by emitting a high pitched buzzing sound only young people can hear as a witness, at this point.

[cubby]

So the Republicans want to...impeach Hunter Biden?

This is what I don't understand. There have to be some intelligent people on the GOP side of this, and if they are throwing up the Biden's as their smoke screen, how can they not see that the end game is...nothing. Biden doing or not doing anything is irrelevant to the Trump's violation of federal law.

Because the GOP can't do anything with the Bidens. Not right now - not to save their dear leader.

[Ausr]

So the Republicans want to...impeach Hunter Biden?

If I could ask a witness what Hunter Biden has to do with Trump's impeachment charge and only get "Nothing" as an answer, I'd be happy.

[Captain N]

This is what I don't understand. There have to be some intelligent people on the GOP side of this, and if they are throwing up the Biden's as their smoke screen, how can they not see that the end game is...nothing. Biden doing or not doing anything is irrelevant to the Trump's violation of federal law.

Because the GOP can't do anything with the Bidens. Not right now - not to save their dear leader.

I don't think that's their end-game. I think their end-game is to create enough bullshit that moderates start believing that a coup is happening just like the Trump Cult does. That Democrats are ignoring their own wrongdoing (they're not) and focusing on Trump. It's the same bullshit they tried, and some are still are doing to Hillary Clinton.

[Belize]

There have to be some intelligent people on the GOP side of this

Doubtful .

[Skroe]

This is what I don't understand. There have to be some intelligent people on the GOP side of this, and if they are throwing up the Biden's as their smoke screen, how can they not see that the end game is...nothing. Biden doing or not doing anything is irrelevant to the Trump's violation of federal law.

Because the GOP can't do anything with the Bidens. Not right now - not to save their dear leader.

A key problem is they have little incentive to take it seriously.

Consider the 20-something announced House retirements coming in 2020. More will be coming. Look for the final number to be between 30 and 40. House Democrats have an amazing chance to expand their majority by 10-20 seats. These retirements are generally happening for two reasons:

(1) They're ex-committee chairmen who thanks to Republican caucus rules on term limits as chairs (which applies to just their own party), are not going to be able to chair committees or subcommittees ever again.

(2) They've done the electoral math that most of us have and see the chances of Republicans retaking the House anytime soon as slim to nil, so being a non-ranking member in a minority party for years to come is pretty much just being a professional seat warmer.

Republican "reform" policies in the House have created unprecedented churn that's seen over a hundred Republicans in the House since January 20th 2017 either lose their jobs or on their way out. But it's really happened before that too, going back to the end of congressional earmarks under John Bohener in January 2011. It's conspired, quite by accident, to create an argument for "why bother being a Republican Rep"?

So the game now isn't surprising. These small men do a tour for two terms, see no advancement, then cash out. And I literally mean cash out. They go to K-street and become lobbyists, or they go back to their business interests. In both cases, they capitalize on their political connections established in their short tenure to advance themselves.

So there is no incentive for House Republicans to turn on Trump because not a single one of these men are builders. They are looters. If they turn on Trump, it harms their first interest - their future career / money making prospects. If they even ENTERTAIN the seriousness of any of these witnesses, they'll be compared unfavorably to those who don't. Witness the one House Republican who said words saying he would pay attention to the inquiry... a day and a half later he was basically forced to say he wouldn't run for re-election in 2020.

It's really the perfect corruption machine.


This is why I get so damn frustrated about Democrats running for President talking about Medicare for all. Yes healthcare is crucial to Americans and a clear political winner for Democrats. But this country has a Stage IV cancer. Campaign finance reform and lobbying reform are unsexy, wonkish topics but the corruption emanating from it are mortal threats to American Democracy and the single most important thing the next Democratic President could do is not M4A, but leading the charge in saving American Democracy from this caner. They have to make it sexy. They have to lead. They have to make anti-corruption the most important issue in American lives. It will be every bit the winner. And if it isn't, you could argue, Americans are unworthy of the democracy they were born into.

[Elegiac]

This is why I get so damn frustrated about Democrats running for President talking about Medicare for all. Yes healthcare is crucial to Americans and a clear political winner for Democrats. But this country has a Stage IV cancer. Campaign finance reform and lobbying reform are unsexy, wonkish topics but the corruption emanating from it are mortal threats to American Democracy and the single most important thing the next Democratic President could do is not M4A, but leading the charge in saving American Democracy from this caner. They have to make it sexy. They have to lead. They have to make anti-corruption the most important issue in American lives. It will be every bit the winner. And if it isn't, you could argue, Americans are unworthy of the democracy they were born into.

Good luck with that.

We live in a media environment dominated by wealthy interests who have absolutely no incentive to give any coverage to actual reform efforts save incidentally covering them through talking points designed to stoke skepticism about reform. Case in point; getting moneyed interests out of Washington is literally the basis of Warren's campaign, but the only thing pundits are talking about is M4A. M4A isn't even her flagship policy - it's Sanders'.

You're also having to cut through a miasma in the general public that quite correctly identifies the American system as it stands as being one set up for the purpose of protecting the interests of the elite - why care about corruption in DC if, thanks to electoral math, your state is underrepresented in Congress and doesn't get a say in the Presidential elections anyway?

"American Democracy" needs to be different from what it was if it has any chance of surviving.