Mega-Thread: Impeachment Proceedings & Inquiry of Trump

[Paranoid Android]

Trump on Sondland, per pooler @AndrewRestuccia: “I don’t know him very well. I have not spoken to him much. This is not a man I know well. He seems like a nice guy though.”

https://twitter.com/rebeccaballhaus/...690475010?s=19

Trump is so effin funny. He speaks so much like a mobster, a tv fictional mobster at best. This is as comical as him eventually saying he does not know Don, Jr. very well.

[Captain N]

Castor has that same look on his face as Trey Gowdy had during the Benghazi hearing.

You know the look -- The I got nothing but Im going to keep talking so I don't look completely worthless.

[cubby]

The impression I'm getting is more "I want to get all the facts on the fucking record before these fuckbags hang me out to dry" than "oh shit oh shit I gotta save my ass", is all I'm saying. He's not really being sensationalistic (some of the content is sensational), just fairly matter-of-fact. He's not really trying to assign blame, just establish what the chains of command and his orders were, and let that speak for itself.

I agree, but at the same time, this is markedly different than other Trumpkin sycophants. He sees the writing on the wall, and he doesn't want his proverbial brains painted on that wall, so he's giving up all the goods, and doing it very well, without emotion or feelings.

The GOP leadership has to be, at some level, thinking about how much it's worth keeping Drumpf in the Oval Office.

[Endus]

Hunter Biden got a job in Burisma which he wasn't qualified or had any experience for, not illegal but bad ethics to take a job just for your family name.
Ivanka Trump got a job in the White House she's not qualified or had any experience for, not illegal but bad ethics to take a job just for your family name. (It's also much worse to have that going on in the top side of government affairs.)

Hunter Biden taking the job isn't in any respect unethical. Any potential conflict of interest could be worked around, if there even had been any, which there's been no real evidence provided to back up.

You can question why Burisma hired him, but the much-vaunted "$50k a [i]month!" salary is not that fucking high. That's $600k/year. That's not unusual for executive salary, at all.

Ivanka, on the other hand, was hired by her father, which makes her hiring nepotism. That's where the unethical action occurs. Particularly since it's for a government position, whereas Hunter Biden was hired by a private company. But again; this isn't unethical for Ivanka to take the job. It's unethical for her father to offer her the job.

You're drawing a false equivalence, here.

[cubby]

I'm sure his lawyers told him that he had 3 options - Continue fudging the truth and go to jail, plead the 5th, or tell the truth and salvage some of your reputation and be remembered similarly to John Dean in history.

I agree. Those would generally be his three options, and only one of them keeps him out of jail.

[Breccia]

The main FOX News headline at time of writing is "Sondland 'never heard' from Trump on quid pro quo, but 'everyone' involved in Ukraine talks".

I get that, sometimes, a surgeon needs to cut out a tumor or even amputate a limb. But at this point, from public testimony under oath, FOX News is trying to cut off the entire body to save the head. That's a metaphor, by the way, not an incitement to violence.

[kaelleria]

More on Ken Starr's statement on Fox...

https://www.thedailybeast.com/ken-st...imony?ref=home

Ken Starr: GOP Senators Might Consider Having to ‘Make a Trip’ to the White House After Sondland’s Testimony

[Seiklis]

The main FOX News headline at time of writing is "Sondland 'never heard' from Trump on quid pro quo, but 'everyone' involved in Ukraine talks".

I get that, sometimes, a surgeon needs to cut out a tumor or even amputate a limb. But at this point, from public testimony under oath, FOX News is trying to cut off the entire body to save the head. That's a metaphor, by the way, not an incitement to violence.

They don't have a choice. Murdoch will almost certainly be dead by 2024. That's the whole problem. He believes 2020 is it for him

[Crispin]

The main FOX News headline at time of writing is "Sondland 'never heard' from Trump on quid pro quo, but 'everyone' involved in Ukraine talks".

I get that, sometimes, a surgeon needs to cut out a tumor or even amputate a limb. But at this point, from public testimony under oath, FOX News is trying to cut off the entire body to save the head. That's a metaphor, by the way, not an incitement to violence.

Well it’s obvious from some right wingers on this site that they only read headlines.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

"Everyones hair was on fire but nobody decided to talk to us!"

That stinks of a coverup by the non-official "backline" line to Ukraine.

[Pannonian]

Hunter Biden got a job in Burisma which he wasn't qualified or had any experience for, not illegal but bad ethics to take a job just for your family name.
Ivanka Trump got a job in the White House she's not qualified or had any experience for, not illegal but bad ethics to take a job just for your family name. (It's also much worse to have that going on in the top side of government affairs.)

Hunter Biden was investigated and cleared by Ukraine, the USA, the EU and several independent anti-corruption organizations. Again, to repeat myself, it was unethical for Hunter Biden to take that job, but not illegal. I really don't understand why or how Hunter Biden is a relevant witness to this case, Republicans discredit previous witnesses for not being "first hand" but they want Hunter Biden to testify something?
Someone clarify, please.

I'm sorry, it may be sound callous, but that's exactly the point. Like ambassadors, these people get their jobs because of their names, because of their connections.

Is it unfair in a system that should be a meritocracy? Yes, but it is not unintended or wrong. These people (Biden, Trump, Clinton, etc.) get their jobs BECAUSE of their name, and the people hiring them want them BECAUSE of their name.

This is how politics works, and has been for thousands of years.

[kaelleria]

Schiff is going for the jugular... A second round of 30 minutes.

Castor was already out of things to say. This is going to be a bloodbath.

[Endus]

I'm sorry, it may be sound callous, but that's exactly the point. Like ambassadors, these people get their jobs because of their names, because of their connections.

Is it unfair in a system that should be a meritocracy? Yes, but it is not unintended or wrong. These people (Biden, Trump, Clinton, etc.) get their jobs BECAUSE of their name, and the people hiring them want them BECAUSE of their name.

This is how politics works, and has been for thousands of years.

Not just politics.

What's being described is networking. Hunter Biden's desirable because of the network he brings, the contacts he has. Yes, including his father. That's always factored in when considering someone for an executive role; you'd be a fool not to. And sometimes, it's all that matters; a pretty common practice in the energy sector is to hire senior government staff as a VP after they retire, with a sweetheart deal and an escape clause they assume won't ever be used, then they pump that guy for his contacts, bleed him dry, and dump him within 6 months using the escape clause. It's fine if you're expecting it (the monthly salary's high), but if you were planning on 3-5 years like the contract overtly said, you get hosed. Happened to a friend of the family, exactly as I described. It's not supremely ethical, but it's not something that would ever get you in legal trouble, either. It's just standard manipulative business.

[cubby]

The best mud FOX News has to throw is "broke with Trump in 2016 when Trump attacked a Gold Star family"

I mean...that's the sharpest arrow in their quiver?

I don't think they are throwing mud. It looks like they are just doing a biography. Not sure what that means for the larger picture.

[Pannonian]

Not just politics.

What's being described is networking. Hunter Biden's desirable because of the network he brings, the contacts he has. Yes, including his father. That's always factored in when considering someone for an executive role; you'd be a fool not to. And sometimes, it's all that matters; a pretty common practice in the energy sector is to hire senior government staff as a VP after they retire, with a sweetheart deal and an escape clause they assume won't ever be used, then they pump that guy for his contacts, bleed him dry, and dump him within 6 months using the escape clause. It's fine if you're expecting it (the monthly salary's high), but if you were planning on 3-5 years like the contract overtly said, you get hosed. Happened to a friend of the family, exactly as I described. It's not supremely ethical, but it's not something that would ever get you in legal trouble, either. It's just standard manipulative business.

True, but it gets an extra dimension in politics, due to the dynastic nature. Hiring family members from powerful families is beneficial for both sides: The aspiring family member gets a lucrative position and can gain experience, and much more important: meet people in the position. Whoever hires the person gets a direct connection to the family. Moreover, when it comes to political appointments, a family member of an established dynasty is more quantifiable than a stranger. If i like the general direction of the dynasty and what it to continue (and thereby maybe aver change that would cost my own position) i will of course support them.

I don't think we can ever get rid of these dynamics as they're deeply rooted in human societal behavior.

[Edge-]

Man, I caught part of Nunes questions on my way into work...did he get confused and think these hearings were about the 2016 election? Because he sure spent a lot of time talking about it and the long debunked Crowdstrike nonsense.

Almost like he was using his time to monologue debunked Republican talking points that had nothing to do with Sondland because Republicans have no defense on substance, and must rely on innuendo and misdirection for their case.

- - - Updated - - -

More on Ken Starr's statement on Fox...

https://www.thedailybeast.com/ken-st...imony?ref=home

Man, if even Starr is starting to flip...damn. He's been an extremely vocal critic of this process so far, blissfully unaware of the irony and lacking in self-awareness. Yeesh, Fox is going to have a harder time finding people with known names to have on their "safe space" programming.

Wonder if they'll dig up old Oliver North again.

[Endus]

Nunes just fucking argued that not being able to give Sondland the secret testimony given in a closed hearing was "obstruction of justice".

This isn't just strangling truth, this is throwing the body in the woodchipper and feeding the results to the pigs.

[unfilteredJW]

Sondland’s face when Nunes is speaking is lol.

[Crispin]

Why is Nunes QQ’ing to Sondland? What a tool

[kaelleria]

Castor is preparing to throw Rudy under the bus.