1. #6881
    The Unstoppable Force Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tazkar View Post
    Honestly if Trump testified I don't think anything useful would come of it in terms of information. At this point I'd expect it to be him just shouting nonsense and namecalling anyone 'opposed' to him rather than actually spouting off anything useful.
    And I'd like all of that to be a matter of public record. And everything he'd say would be under oath.

    I don't anticipate Trump would be able to shed any light on the matter; the facts all seem pretty well known at this point. It's really more a matter of his dumb ass not knowing what is and isn't illegal, seeing as he's used to doing or saying whatever he wants and having other people cover for him, and him saying something incriminating or later being found to have lied under oath when new information comes out.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  2. #6882
    Pandaren Monk
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    And I'd like all of that to be a matter of public record. And everything he'd say would be under oath.

    I don't anticipate Trump would be able to shed any light on the matter; the facts all seem pretty well known at this point. It's really more a matter of his dumb ass not knowing what is and isn't illegal, seeing as he's used to doing or saying whatever he wants and having other people cover for him, and him saying something incriminating or later being found to have lied under oath when new information comes out.
    The goal at that point, as you said, would be more to reiterate how much Trump fucked up using his own words. Something that can't be hand-waved or ignored, and put him in a position where he's forced to face direct retorts and rebuttals to his nonsense.

    Hammer home how unfit he is for his office, if nothing else, and have the soundbites on standby going into 2020.

  3. #6883
    The Unstoppable Force Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xyonai View Post
    The goal at that point, as you said, would be more to reiterate how much Trump fucked up using his own words. Something that can't be hand-waved or ignored, and put him in a position where he's forced to face direct retorts and rebuttals to his nonsense.

    Hammer home how unfit he is for his office, if nothing else, and have the soundbites on standby going into 2020.
    Not only that, but if Trump lies under oath, he could be brought up for a second impeachment.

    It's all they had against Clinton. It'd be a great thing to smash him with going into the 2020 election.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  4. #6884
    Quote Originally Posted by Xyonai View Post
    The goal at that point, as you said, would be more to reiterate how much Trump fucked up using his own words. Something that can't be hand-waved or ignored, and put him in a position where he's forced to face direct retorts and rebuttals to his nonsense.

    Hammer home how unfit he is for his office, if nothing else, and have the soundbites on standby going into 2020.
    As much as I would like to believe that, but his followers have been hand-waving and ignoring anything problematic he's said since, well, before the election. If they can reconcile his contradictions, shifting statements and outright admissions, then they can hand-wave and ignore even statements under oath. The emperor has been strutting about naked for years, and we had people defending his fashion sense ever since.

  5. #6885
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiri View Post
    As much as I would like to believe that, but his followers have been hand-waving and ignoring anything problematic he's said since, well, before the election. If they can reconcile his contradictions, shifting statements and outright admissions, then they can hand-wave and ignore even statements under oath. The emperor has been strutting about naked for years, and we had people defending his fashion sense ever since.
    No one cares about them though, the focus is independent voters.
    Hail Lilith and see you in Hell!

  6. #6886
    The Unstoppable Force Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiri View Post
    As much as I would like to believe that, but his followers have been hand-waving and ignoring anything problematic he's said since, well, before the election. If they can reconcile his contradictions, shifting statements and outright admissions, then they can hand-wave and ignore even statements under oath. The emperor has been strutting about naked for years, and we had people defending his fashion sense ever since.
    It’s not Trumps idiotic sycophants that need to be swayed. They’ve already sold their souls to the devil, as it were.

    It’s the independent voters and republicans who are on the fence about trump in this whole matter. They are the people that need to be reached, and who these proceedings, (because the republican establishment will refuse to hear them) are in service to.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  7. #6887
    This is the Republican strategy for defending Trump....
    https://www.axios.com/donald-trump-i...58ccb1a69.html

    "The July 25 call summary — the best evidence of the conversation — shows no conditionality or evidence of pressure."

    "President Zelensky and President Trump have both said there was no pressure on the call."

    "The Ukrainian government was not aware of a hold on U.S. security assistance at the time of the July 25 call."

    "President Trump met with President Zelensky and U.S. security assistance flowed to Ukraine in September 2019 — both of which occurred without Ukraine investigating President Trump's political rivals."
    These talking points are pathetic and easily refuted with already open source reporting.

  8. #6888
    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    The absolute hilarity.
    But I thought he already released it? Weird how he's always going to do something he says has already happened.

    The wall has been built!
    We're going to build the wall!

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  9. #6889
    Quote Originally Posted by Dontrike View Post
    But I thought he already released it? Weird how he's always going to do something he says has already happened.

    The wall has been built!
    We're going to build the wall!
    This is a transcript of a call that happened before the one they're investigating. Apparently he thinks if he didn't extort Ukraine in one call it absolves him from doing so after the fact.
    Quote Originally Posted by zenkai View Post
    100:1 odds that he wont
    Quote Originally Posted by freefolk View Post
    Okay. I'll stop sharing my views.

  10. #6890
    The Unstoppable Force Breccia's Avatar
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    This is Team Trump we're talking about, so obviously this could change any second, but, [url=https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/470039-mulvaney-drops-plans-to-file-lawsuit-on-impeachment-testimony]Mulvaney drops plans to file lawsuit on impeachment testimony[/uirl]

    His attorneys notified a federal court that Mulvaney, after further consideration, “does not intend to pursue litigation regarding the deposition subpoena issued to him by the U.S. House of Representatives” and will instead obey directions from Trump to ignore the subpoena altogether.

    “Rather, he will rely on the direction of the President, as supported by an opinion of the Office of Legal Counsel of the U.S. Department of Justice, in not appearing for the relevant deposition,” Mulvaney’s attorneys, William Pittard and Christopher Muha, wrote in a filing in D.C. District Court on Tuesday.
    If I'm reading that right ( @cubby ?) then, instead of explaining why he doesn't need to comply with a subpoena in court with legal precedence and citations, he's just not going to show up.

    No-one is above the law.

  11. #6891
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    This is Team Trump we're talking about, so obviously this could change any second, but, [url=https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/470039-mulvaney-drops-plans-to-file-lawsuit-on-impeachment-testimony]Mulvaney drops plans to file lawsuit on impeachment testimony[/uirl]



    If I'm reading that right ( @cubby ?) then, instead of explaining why he doesn't need to comply with a subpoena in court with legal precedence and citations, he's just not going to show up.
    He's putting it on Trump basically. Add another entry to the long list of obstruction that'll be debated for the Articles of Impeachment.
    Quote Originally Posted by zenkai View Post
    100:1 odds that he wont
    Quote Originally Posted by freefolk View Post
    Okay. I'll stop sharing my views.

  12. #6892
    I can't help but wonder if Trump is actually forced to go under oath, the Republican pivot their defense to that of the Affluenza teen trying to state that he has a mental condition that prevents from understanding his actions have consequences.

  13. #6893
    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    I can't help but wonder if Trump is actually forced to go under oath, the Republican pivot their defense to that of the Affluenza teen trying to state that he has a mental condition that prevents from understanding his actions have consequences.
    I actually would look forward to them using that excuse because it would prove to the rest of the world that they definitely allowed an individual to remain in the White House despite knowing how unfit he was (and for this long). Their defense of anything moving forward in regards to this would go down in flames.

  14. #6894
    Scarab Lord Noxx79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    I can't help but wonder if Trump is actually forced to go under oath, the Republican pivot their defense to that of the Affluenza teen trying to state that he has a mental condition that prevents from understanding his actions have consequences.
    25th amendment time then, and then impeaching pence for allowing this to go on so long.

  15. #6895
    Quote Originally Posted by Noxx79 View Post
    25th amendment time then, and then impeaching pence for allowing this to go on so long.
    They would have to admit they let it slide this entire time and disregarded their country for political power. They won't do that until it costs them too much to do otherwise.

    They have been party over nation for a while now.

  16. #6896
    Bloodsail Admiral wunksta's Avatar
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    But, according to current Senate procedure, McConnell will still need a simple majority—51 of the 53 Senate Republicans—to support any resolution outlining rules governing the trial. That means that if only three Republican senators were to break from the caucus, they could block any rule they didn’t like. (Vice President Mike Pence can’t break ties in impeachment matters.) Those three senators, in turn, could demand a secret ballot and condition their approval of the rest of the rules on getting one.
    https://www.politico.com/magazine/st...-office-229911

  17. #6897
    Merely a Setback cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    This is Team Trump we're talking about, so obviously this could change any second, but, [url=https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/470039-mulvaney-drops-plans-to-file-lawsuit-on-impeachment-testimony]Mulvaney drops plans to file lawsuit on impeachment testimony[/uirl]

    If I'm reading that right ( @cubby ?) then, instead of explaining why he doesn't need to comply with a subpoena in court with legal precedence and citations, he's just not going to show up.
    It's a rather smart version of ask for forgiveness rather than permission. Frankly, I'm surprised they even tried to do this initially. Basically, Mulvaney is saying fuck you to the House and making them sue to get him in there.

    I would have to guess that the House is going to subpoena those they want, depose those that show up, and then vote based on the testimony and evidence they have. Leaving the "get in here right the fuck now or I'll throw your ass in jail" to Roberts during the Senate Trial.
    No one is above the law!

  18. #6898
    https://www.businessinsider.com/trum...plaint-2019-11

    President Donald Trump wanted to fire Michael Atkinson, the intelligence community inspector general who deemed a whistleblower complaint about Trump to be urgent and credible, The New York Times reported, citing four people familiar with the discussions.

    Trump first expressed his anger toward Atkinson in September, when the complaint became public, the report said. The president said he didn't understand why Atkinson shared the complaint with Congress and believed it was a sign that Atkinson was disloyal to him.
    This alone should be impeachable.

    IG, and all government employees, are loyal to The Constitution first and foremost, always. A president constantly demanding personal loyalty is a serious problem that undermines the normal functioning of government.

    Atkinson had a legal duty to share his findings with Congress, not protect Trump from his own potentially illegal behavior.

  19. #6899
    Merely a Setback cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    https://www.businessinsider.com/trum...plaint-2019-11



    This alone should be impeachable.

    IG, and all government employees, are loyal to The Constitution first and foremost, always. A president constantly demanding personal loyalty is a serious problem that undermines the normal functioning of government.

    Atkinson had a legal duty to share his findings with Congress, not protect Trump from his own potentially illegal behavior.
    Trump subverting democracy - another day ending in "y".

    I agree that this is a stand-alone impeachable offense. It will be very interesting to see what the final version of the Articles Impeachment actually charge. The Dems won't get a second crack at this (despite the litany of charges the House could legitimately draw up) so they have to get it right the first time. Not too many, not too few.
    No one is above the law!

  20. #6900
    Pandaren Monk
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Queue the usual sockpuppets and shitposters actually not giving a shit or trying to try and derail the thread again with their garbage in response to this, lol.

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