1. #9361
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasRules View Post
    Absent from today's impeachment announcement:
    Bribery and extortion. 2 words used non stop for several weeks to try to get the public on board. Obviously these can not be proven. so what was the point of using it for several weeks and wasting time?

    Also not in today's announcement--obstruction of justice. Obstructing justice was part and parcel of the Clinton and Nixon impeachment procedures. Not so this time. Why not?

    Also absent: The charges being in the Constitution. Neither charge is specified in the Constitution’s impeachment clause, which reads: “The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.”

    I assume the democrats are pretending both of their "charges" fall under high crimes and misdemeanors? Bribery is listed and they said it for weeks, but now...not?

    All of it doesn't matter because it goes down in the senate. Everyone knows this, but I am glad the democrats are putting people up for reelection on the impeachment record. Will they vote partisan or will they vote to try and save their seat at the table knowing that it dies in the senate? All politicians are about power, is it worth risking your chance at power on something you know fails anyways? Bring on the partisan"But they should vote their conscience"....hahahaha bring on the delusional.
    The orange i just ate for lunch was delicious

  2. #9362
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasRules View Post
    Absent from today's impeachment announcement:
    I believe the Bribery and Extortion charges are being rolled into the Abuse of Power charge, just to make things more concise. And he -is- being nailed for Obstruction, but I'm sure you knew that anyway and were just looking for a good spin.

    As for the rest? We'll just have to wait and see, though this 'Impeachment will only hurt the Dems!!!' concern trolling narrative has been debunked weeks ago so idk why ya'll are still trying to push it.

  3. #9363
    Quote Originally Posted by TexasRules View Post
    Absent from today's impeachment announcement:
    Bribery and extortion. 2 words used non stop for several weeks to try to get the public on board. Obviously these can not be proven. so what was the point of using it for several weeks and wasting time?

    Also not in today's announcement--obstruction of justice. Obstructing justice was part and parcel of the Clinton and Nixon impeachment procedures. Not so this time. Why not?

    Also absent: The charges being in the Constitution. Neither charge is specified in the Constitution’s impeachment clause, which reads: “The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.”

    I assume the democrats are pretending both of their "charges" fall under high crimes and misdemeanors? Bribery is listed and they said it for weeks, but now...not?

    All of it doesn't matter because it goes down in the senate. Everyone knows this, but I am glad the democrats are putting people up for reelection on the impeachment record. Will they vote partisan or will they vote to try and save their seat at the table knowing that it dies in the senate? All politicians are about power, is it worth risking your chance at power on something you know fails anyways? Bring on the partisan"But they should vote their conscience"....hahahaha bring on the delusional.
    Face it Trump gets to be the first rep and 3rd president Impeached.

  4. #9364
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    I don't see Clinton's crime listed there either, so I guess his impeachment was all a "witch hunt"?

    Or Nixon's, who wasn't impeached but would have been.

    If you're going to be that literal, deal with the consequences.
    Well, I said in other posts that Clinton should not have been impeached. But live in your delusional land where everything you think is correct.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Xyonai View Post
    I believe the Bribery and Extortion charges are being rolled into the Abuse of Power charge, just to make things more concise. And he -is- being nailed for Obstruction, but I'm sure you knew that anyway and were just looking for a good spin.

    As for the rest? We'll just have to wait and see, though this 'Impeachment will only hurt the Dems!!!' concern trolling narrative has been debunked weeks ago so idk why ya'll are still trying to push it.
    Why would you need to roll a charge into something else if it is explicitly stated in the impeachment clause?

  5. #9365
    Quote Originally Posted by TexasRules View Post
    Why would you need to roll a charge into something else if it is explicitly stated in the impeachment clause?
    Are you saying he hasn't done an abuse of power?

  6. #9366
    Quote Originally Posted by TexasRules View Post
    Why would you need to roll a charge into something else if it is explicitly stated in the impeachment clause?
    Because Abuse of Power encompasses bribery. It turned out he didn't just admit to bribery, but was also guilty to several other felonies that fall under the umbrella of Abuse of Power.

    We'll find out how much Republicans actually care for protecting and upholding the constitution in the coming weeks.

  7. #9367
    Forget that he solicited a favor from a foreign government. Forget he used the office to create dirt on a political opponet. Forget he has obstructed the inquiry in every possible opportunity. He had the power to withold aid for 45 days, he witheld it for 9 months. That alone is impeachable.

  8. #9368
    Trumphadis, we're taking your President Away From You.

    We told you this day would come.

    You said it wouldn't.

    And now your President, the incarnation of your abandonment of American principles, will go down in history as the third President impeached, on the most serious charges ever levied at a President, and only saved by a party that is fully supplicant to him.

    He will survive the Senate vote. He may even win re-election. But we have branded him for all time for his crimes and your moral treason. And when saner, more civil times return, so long as you live, you will carry the shame with you for what you allowed to happen.

    Watch in horror as we chisel into American history the illegitimacy of your choice for President, and the complete and ultimate failure of every compromise you made up to this point.

    The House of Representatives is indicting Trump. It is also de facto indicting you. Never forget that. We the majority of the American people elected a Democratic Congress in 2018 in a historic election that saw the biggest midterm turn out in over a century, specifically to stop the illegitimate President, Donald J Trump and hold him accountable. And now they have done that.

    Your choice for President was unacceptable. Your compromises are unacceptable. You have betrayed the constitution. You have betrayed the Founders. You have betrayed liberal democracy.

    And now the lines are drawn, for there are two sides: those who are for holding the President to the rule of law and the Constitution, and those who are against that.

    Trump will remain President. he may even win re-election. But make no mistake his Presidency is over.

    We've won. Sweet sweet justice.
    Last edited by Skroe; 2019-12-10 at 08:54 PM.

  9. #9369
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    Quote Originally Posted by D3thray View Post
    I mean post primary season once the Democratic candidate for office is decided. Trump is not objectively the worst possible candidate for office even if I don’t like his conduct and I don’t yet know who the opposition candidate will be.
    Stop even bothering with the "centrist" thing.

    You've never considered voting for anyone other than Trump, thus your opinion on wether the other candidates are better is moot.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana View Post
    We'll find out how much Republicans actually care for protecting and upholding the constitution in the coming weeks.
    Haha, in no way do they care.

  10. #9370
    Quote Originally Posted by TexasRules View Post
    Well, I said in other posts that Clinton should not have been impeached. But live in your delusional land where everything you think is correct.
    The point I was trying to make here was that if you only view impeachable offenses as those literally listed out that it's functionally impossible to ever do so.

    Treason - Absurdly high bar that has only actually existed in a tiny handful of cases since this country was founded.
    Bribery - We're damn close to that with this, and I'm honestly kind of shocked Democrats are bringing him up on charges for this. But if we take the Republican view the, "He never specifically said bribery, so it's not bribery!" then well...any president can get away with it simply by not explicitly calling it a "bribe"
    other high Crimes and Misdemeanors - WHAT DOES THAT EVEN MEAN LITERALLY?!

    We actually have a pretty good idea -

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_c...d_misdemeanors

    "High," in the legal and common parlance of the 17th and 18th centuries of "high crimes," is activity by or against those who have special duties acquired by taking an oath of office that are not shared with common persons.[6] A high crime is one that can be done only by someone in a unique position of authority, which is political in character, who does things to circumvent justice. The phrase "high crimes and misdemeanors," used together, was a common phrase when the U.S. Constitution was written and did not require any stringent or difficult criteria for determining guilt but meant the opposite. The phrase was historically used to cover a very broad range of crimes.
    I dunno, that sounds a lot like the behavior of Trump.

  11. #9371
    McConnell not on board with Trump

    In conversations with the White House, the Kentucky Republican has made clear he hopes to end the trial as soon as he can, an effort to both get impeachment off his lap and protect his conference from potentially damaging votes should the process break out into partisan warfare. That will include a continuous whip count until McConnell feels he has the votes to acquit the President and end the show. He has even floated a 10-day minimum during these talks, one person said.

    But the show is exactly what Trump wants. He's made clear to advisers privately that rather than end the trial as quickly as possible, he is hoping for a dramatic event, according to two people familiar with his thinking. He wants Hunter Biden, Rep. Adam Schiff and the whistleblower to testify. He wants the witnesses to be live, not clips of taped depositions. And he's hoping to turn it into a spectacle, which he thinks is his best chance to hurt Democrats in the election.

    Infuriated, Trump has been told he will have his day to defend himself soon, one person said.


    -------------

    omg...let Trump rant and rave...
    Acquittal doesn't mean exoneration


  12. #9372
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasRules View Post
    Absent from today's impeachment announcement:
    Bribery and extortion. 2 words used non stop for several weeks to try to get the public on board. Obviously these can not be proven. so what was the point of using it for several weeks and wasting time?
    Bud, the bribery is in the first article. You know, soliciting the aid of a foreign government in the elections in exchange for performing an official act. Literally the definition of bribery right in there.

    Is it somehow a win if they write out the crime explicitly instead of just saying bribery or something?
    Last edited by Wyrt; 2019-12-10 at 09:11 PM.

  13. #9373
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    Trump will remain President. he may even win re-election. But make no mistake his Presidency is over.

    We've won. Sweet sweet justice.
    I really like a lot of your posts but I strongly disagree with this.

    If he wins re-election you've lost. Then its 4 more years of him raping your institutions, weakening your government and governing by tweet with knee jerk decisions based on what hes watching at the time. It's 4 more years of racists and bigots feeling vindicated and empowered because hes in the White House. It's 4 more years of News outlets blowing up every gaffe and lie makes with new and improved superlatives to catch peoples attention.

    Please no.

    If he wins another 4 years you can't move the goal posts far enough to declare that a victory, no matter how neutered he may be.

  14. #9374
    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrt View Post
    Bud, the bribery is in the first article. You know, soliciting the aid of a foreign government in the elections in exchange for performing an official act. Literally the definition of bribery right in there.

    Is it somehow a win if they write out the crime explicitly instead of just saying bribery or something?
    You stupid liberal! He never said bribery SO HAH TAKE THAT!! /BigfreakingS

  15. #9375
    Bots have been nuts on social media today. Troll farms, probably. But the bizarre trending tags and discussion-bombs of identical nonsense across various platforms has been pretty interesting to watch, especially as it happened almost on the dot as democrats announced articles.

    I'm a little disappointed by just two articles. I haven't gotten into the guts of these, but I feel like we could have gotten repeat counts of both of these. Trump could have been hit with 10 counts of obstruction, and that would give both sides fodder to vote for and against some to appease their bases. On the other hand, having fewer means that they do have to make a stand on the issue and their vote matters, so I guess there's that.

    Also, @TexasRules, I don't want to appeal to reason when it seems like you have none. But you do nothing but parrot the party line, verbatim. All of the rest of us here have views all across the spectrum; while us left-leaning folks generally agree on Trump being a piece of shit, we have wildly different ideas on why and what to do about it, and those views often conflict with Democrat talking points. You, on the other hand, repeat word for word the things that the GOP is saying in the media. Take a step back and think about this.

  16. #9376
    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    I really like a lot of your posts but I strongly disagree with this.

    If he wins re-election you've lost. Then its 4 more years of him raping your institutions, weakening your government and governing by tweet with knee jerk decisions based on what hes watching at the time. It's 4 more years of racists and bigots feeling vindicated and empowered because hes in the White House. It's 4 more years of News outlets blowing up every gaffe and lie makes with new and improved superlatives to catch peoples attention.

    Please no.

    If he wins another 4 years you can't move the goal posts far enough to declare that a victory, no matter how neutered he may be.
    No. I fundamentally disagree.

    Here is why:

    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post51928124

    The planning for the post-Trump era is already taking shape. There are few things he'll be able to do in 4 more years. And the US is more powerful vis a vis everyone except for China, than it was 10 years ago.

    We can deal with 4 more years of Trump. Especially if it means continuing to undermine what he stands for.

    The drama is not relevant. Have patience. Trump is symptomatic. I've been saying that for years. Removing Trump doesn't end what got him there. That will take years.

    That's the real war.
    Last edited by Skroe; 2019-12-10 at 09:36 PM.

  17. #9377
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapemask View Post
    Bots have been nuts on social media today. Troll farms, probably. But the bizarre trending tags and discussion-bombs of identical nonsense across various platforms has been pretty interesting to watch, especially as it happened almost on the dot as democrats announced articles.

    I'm a little disappointed by just two articles. I haven't gotten into the guts of these, but I feel like we could have gotten repeat counts of both of these. Trump could have been hit with 10 counts of obstruction, and that would give both sides fodder to vote for and against some to appease their bases. On the other hand, having fewer means that they do have to make a stand on the issue and their vote matters, so I guess there's that.

    Also, @TexasRules, I don't want to appeal to reason when it seems like you have none. But you do nothing but parrot the party line, verbatim. All of the rest of us here have views all across the spectrum; while us left-leaning folks generally agree on Trump being a piece of shit, we have wildly different ideas on why and what to do about it, and those views often conflict with Democrat talking points. You, on the other hand, repeat word for word the things that the GOP is saying in the media. Take a step back and think about this.
    Hes brave. I dont see theo, connal, ghostpanther, daciaen(sp) or zenkai anywhere
    Last edited by Thwart; 2019-12-11 at 03:45 AM. Reason: infracted for trolling

  18. #9378
    Quote Originally Posted by Video Games View Post
    Hes brave. I dont see theo, connal, ghostpanther, daciaen(sp) or zenkai anywhere
    Oh don't worry, they'll make an appearance when Trump's henchmen in the Senate piss on the Constitution and the rule of law and acquit Trump. And they'll say we all swore impeachment here would remove Trump, even though litterally nobody is saying that (and it also isn't the point of impeaching Trump... it's at best a reach goal).

    The Trumphadi cult at large has operated in the worst of faith from the get go, so there is no reason to think that will change now. But it's ultimately irrelevant, because Impeachment for trying to cheat in the 2020 election will now be Donald Trump's main historic legacy, from now until the end of time.

    They'll keep their President for a time. But we'll have essentially destroyed him as a President and indicted them for their moral treason. And that's a very positive thing for America.

  19. #9379
    Quote Originally Posted by Video Games View Post
    Hes brave. I dont see theo, connal, ghostpanther, daciaen(sp) or zenkai anywhere
    Theo and Connal are in another thread and Dacian made his usual post out of now where about nothing then disappear trick.

    They're around.
    Last edited by Thwart; 2019-12-11 at 03:46 AM. Reason: infracted for trolling

  20. #9380
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bdatik View Post
    Theo and Connal are in another thread and Dacian made his usual post out of now where about nothing then disappear trick.

    They're around.
    Specifically this thread

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