Mega-Thread: Impeachment Proceedings & Inquiry of Trump

[Reeve]

The thing is Trump is entitled to ask a foreign leader to investigate something on his behalf

No, he's not. He's entitled to ask that a foreign leader assist his justice department with an investigation on the NATION's behalf, not his. An investigation of the Bidens is not on the nation's behalf. It's to help himself with the election. And you can tell this was not legitimate, because the DoJ denied they were involved with this, while Trump's personal lawyer was up to his ears in it.

[Edge-]

Does he? I sincerely doubt this is illegal

What? He? I'm talking about the Department of Justice, who should be leading an investigation into Hunter Biden if there was corruption.

The fact that they're not indicates this isn't a serious "investigation".

Does he need to this specific . The thing is Trump is entitled to ask a foreign leader to investigate something on his behalf

Yes. Words matter. And he's not entitled to request that a foreign leader investigate a political rival for political gain. That's expressly illegal.

- - - Updated - - -

https://www.courier-journal.com/stor...ok/4589461002/

Apparently Mitch Oconnel had no clue that the White House had an advanced copy of Bolton's book...and he's not pleased about this news.

As he shouldn't be. It makes it increasingly difficult to run a sham impeachment trial when there's a steady trickle of evidence devastating to your side of the case.

[DKjaigen]

And that's not true. It's no more difficult to prove than anything else. You look at the facts and evidence, and draw a conclusion. You don't need a confession, at all, and it's a completely ridiculous goalpost to set.

Ok where are the facts end evidence? All the testimonies so far are second hand and speculation.

If I decide to shoot my buddy in the leg as a prank, and he ends up bleeding out, I'm going to prison for manslaughter if not murder. Because I intentionally shot him. My aiming the gun and pulling the trigger demonstrates that. They don't need me to confess, the facts demonstrate intent.

And if the mother of the buddy says it was not manslaughter but murder ? then what?

[Reeve]

What? He? I'm talking about the Department of Justice, who should be leading an investigation into Hunter Biden if there was corruption.

The fact that they're not indicates this isn't a serious "investigation".

Yup, and what makes it even more clear it wasn't serious is that there was no efforts to try to make sure an investigation was actually carried out. Everything hinged on a public announcement of investigations, not the actual realization of them.

[Elegiac]

Ok where are the facts end evidence?

Being hidden by the Trump administration under the guise of executive privilege.

Lock him up.

[Breccia]

he's not pleased about this news.

Of course not. Before, his job was to pave over potential evidence a hypothetical witness might have. Now it's specific and direct. Running a stop sign on a dark and rainy night is one thing, doing it in broad daylight is another.

[Elegiac]

Of course not. Before, his job was to pave over potential evidence a hypothetical witness might have. Now it's specific and direct. Running a stop sign on a dark and rainy night is one thing, doing it in broad daylight is another.

Heyyyy remind me wasn’t a certain bad faith poster whose name starts with a D asking for a smoking gun?

[Stormspellz]

Ok where are the facts end evidence? All the testimonies so far are second hand and speculation.



And if the mother of the buddy says it was not manslaughter but murder ? then what?

closing your eyes and saying you don't see any evidence doesn't actually mean there is no evidence on the matter

you have the testimonies, you have the timeline that perfectly line up with said testimonies, you have his own fucking words. You have an unprecedented use of "executive privilege" to block testimony, refusing to honor a long list of subpoenas from testimony to documents and on and on and on and on and on and on

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

No, he's not. He's entitled to ask that a foreign leader assist his justice department with an investigation on the NATION's behalf, not his. An investigation of the Bidens is not on the nation's behalf. It's to help himself with the election. And you can tell this was not legitimate, because the DoJ denied they were involved with this, while Trump's personal lawyer was up to his ears in it.

Exactly!
Trump-administration opening an official investigation into Joe and Hunter Biden surrounding Burisma, Ukraine and Corruption? 100% legal.
Trump-administration asking Ukraine for help in uncovering the truth through official channels? 100% legal.

But the administration didn't do that, they did everything they could to coerce Ukraine to make a public statement that they were investigating Bidens and Burisma.
This is very much like Trump has asked Russia, China and others to do.
Where are the servers? I would love for people to find them. Russia if you can find them...
I think Russia should investigate, China and probably others too...

The USA is a democracy with laws and legal procedures, but lets not use them... let's use foreign legal systems to do our job for us, how does that make sense from a legal or ligical standpoint?

[Reeve]

Ok where are the facts end evidence? All the testimonies so far are second hand and speculation.



And if the mother of the buddy says it was not manslaughter but murder ? then what?

Gordon Sondland had firsthand knowledge. Mick Mulvaney and John Bolton have now both explicitly said that the aid was held up at the President's request in exchange for an announcement of these investigations. The fact that they haven't done so under oath in the House of Reps is because of Trump's obstruction of congress, which is by the way one of the articles.

[cubby]

Exactly!
Trump-administration opening an official investigation into Joe and Hunter Biden surrounding Burisma, Ukraine and Corruption? 100% legal.
Trump-administration asking Ukraine for help in uncovering the truth through official channels? 100% legal.

But the administration didn't do that, they did everything they could to coerce Ukraine to make a public statement that they were investigating Bidens and Burisma.
This is very much like Trump has asked Russia, China and others to do.
Where are the servers? I would love for people to find them. Russia if you can find them...
I think Russia should investigate, China and probably others too...

The USA is a democracy with laws and legal procedures, but lets not use them... let's use foreign legal systems to do our job for us, how does that make sense from a legal or ligical standpoint?

Please also remember that this investigation already happened, in 2017, and was signed off by GOP Senators. Context also matters.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Ok where are the facts end evidence? All the testimonies so far are second hand and speculation.

Investigators talk to witness B.
Witness B says witness A has information about the crime.
Police then goes to witness A.
Witness A refuses to share any and all information because their boss (criminal) says not to say anything.
Police then arrests witness A for obstruction.
Witness A turns on his boss.
Boss gets arrested by the police.

...and that's how criminal investigations work, but not in this case... why I don't know.

[DKjaigen]

No, he's not. He's entitled to ask that a foreign leader assist his justice department with an investigation on the NATION's behalf, not his. An investigation of the Bidens is not on the nation's behalf. It's to help himself with the election. And you can tell this was not legitimate, because the DoJ denied they were involved with this, while Trump's personal lawyer was up to his ears in it.

Back these claims up with evidence

[Elegiac]

Back these claims up with evidence

It’s being withheld by the Trump administration.

Lock him up.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Please also remember that this investigation already happened, in 2017, and was signed off by GOP Senators. Context also matters.

I know, Ukrainian anti-corruption organizations and the EU council also looked into the case and found no crimes.
For me, personally, you can 100% argue that it's unethical for people to use their family names to get business deals and money... but of all Presidents in US history Trump isn't the one that should go after that ball...

[draynay]

The thing is Trump is entitled to ask a foreign leader to investigate something on his behalf

Incorrect, is there anything relating to this impeachment that you aren't wrong about? Do you have any notion of what is actually happening?

[DKjaigen]

closing your eyes and saying you don't see any evidence doesn't actually mean there is no evidence on the matter

you have the testimonies, you have the timeline that perfectly line up with said testimonies, you have his own fucking words. You have an unprecedented use of "executive privilege" to block testimony, refusing to honor a long list of subpoenas from testimony to documents and on and on and on and on and on and on

All Circumstantial evidence evidence. No court is going to find you guilty on that alone

[Stormspellz]

All Circumstantial evidence evidence. No court is going to find you guilty on that alone

this isn't a court of law, and furthermore you are again simply wrong about everything so far.

[cubby]

I know, Ukrainian anti-corruption organizations and the EU council also looked into the case and found no crimes.
For me, personally, you can 100% argue that it's unethical for people to use their family names to get business deals and money... but of all Presidents in US history Trump isn't the one that should go after that ball...

Ah, ok. And yeah, not just the U.S. found no crimes - good point. Your point about business and family names is interesting and worthy of a separate thread.

Lol though re Trump and not going after that ball. Agreed.

[DKjaigen]

Yes. Words matter. And he's not entitled to request that a foreign leader investigate a political rival for political gain. That's expressly illegal.

Since when does being a political rival exempts you from investigation?