1. #12421
    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    When I say making them their own branch, I didn't mean giving them direct control over the judges, I meant in their capacity to investigate things independently without interference from the other branches and no person in power there could be chosen from the other branches either.
    Yeah, giving law enforcement no oversight is fucking stupid. See the current levels of abuse for reference.
    Quote Originally Posted by zenkai View Post
    100:1 odds that he wont
    Quote Originally Posted by freefolk View Post
    Okay. I'll stop sharing my views.

  2. #12422
    Merely a Setback cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Explicit independence with oversight done by congress. They just don’t have any place being in the set of checks and balances the three branches already have.
    No way oversight with Congress. Terrible idea as well. Best place is under Judiciary, with a nomination and term limit set up for the top spot. IIRC there was a thread about this awhile back....

    But I definitely think the DoJ will come under heavy scrutiny after the Impeachment and removal (most likely by election) of Trump.
    No one is above the law!

  3. #12423
    Your daily reminder that the White House is the only source of governing legitimacy for any agency of the executive branch, cabinet level on down, and most of them were invented out of whole cloth within the last 80-90 years.

    Well, Nancy sure showed Mitch, huh? So leverage, much pressure.

  4. #12424
    Merely a Setback cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Maybe take some civics classes before continuing to post from a place of ignorance. And see my above post kiddo.
    No need to lash out, I was a little overboard there - but it does suck when the conversation is just one-sided for ideas. I'm the epitome of having taken civics classes, btw.
    No one is above the law!

  5. #12425
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Yeah, giving law enforcement no oversight is fucking stupid. See the current levels of abuse for reference.
    Who said they would have no oversight? If they overstepped their authority, you would have it where the other branches could intervene.

    Allowing them to be under the authority of the president with a partisan majority in the senate is giving them no effective oversight.

    Allowing them to remain under the president after the abuse it has shown has proven to be even MORE stupid and leading to levels of abuse we are currently seeing.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Stormdash View Post
    Your daily reminder that the White House is the only source of governing legitimacy for any agency of the executive branch, cabinet level on down, and most of them were invented out of whole cloth within the last 80-90 years.

    Well, Nancy sure showed Mitch, huh? So leverage, much pressure.
    Well, delaying them did allow more to come out, but honestly think Pelosi is doing it wrong on this one. I already mentioned earlier how they could do it to truly screw up McConnell's whole year. She has the leverage if she just has a clue how to use it.
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
    "mmo-champion.com##li.postbitignored"
    to your ublock or adblock filter to actually ignore ignored posters. Now just need a way to ignore responses to them as well.

  6. #12426
    Merely a Setback cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    Who said they would have no oversight? If they overstepped their authority, you would have it where the other branches could intervene.

    Allowing them to be under the authority of the president with a partisan majority in the senate is giving them no effective oversight.

    Allowing them to remain under the president after the abuse it has shown has proven to be even MORE stupid and leading to levels of abuse we are currently seeing.
    Congress is worse than Executive for oversight. Unless they are their own independent branch, which wouldn't work at all in our system, it has to be Judiciary. Nominate the AG from [somewhere] and appointed by the SCOTUS. Not sure where the other appointees would come from. It's an issue of admin law atm, but obviously that would change. I can't recall offhand where the career level Asst/Deputy AG's end and the political appointees begin.
    No one is above the law!

  7. #12427
    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    Who said they would have no oversight? If they overstepped their authority, you would have it where the other branches could intervene.

    Allowing them to be under the authority of the president with a partisan majority in the senate is giving them no effective oversight.

    Allowing them to remain under the president after the abuse it has shown has proven to be even MORE stupid and leading to levels of abuse we are currently seeing.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Well, delaying them did allow more to come out, but honestly think Pelosi is doing it wrong on this one. I already mentioned earlier how they could do it to truly screw up McConnell's whole year. She has the leverage if she just has a clue how to use it.
    You did with the whole “no interference from the other branches” bit...
    Quote Originally Posted by zenkai View Post
    100:1 odds that he wont
    Quote Originally Posted by freefolk View Post
    Okay. I'll stop sharing my views.

  8. #12428
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    You did with the whole “no interference from the other branches” bit...
    No interference on which cases they take and investigate or who runs them or stuff like that. That doesn't allow them to break the law or the rules or anything.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Congress is worse than Executive for oversight. Unless they are their own independent branch, which wouldn't work at all in our system, it has to be Judiciary. Nominate the AG from [somewhere] and appointed by the SCOTUS. Not sure where the other appointees would come from. It's an issue of admin law atm, but obviously that would change. I can't recall offhand where the career level Asst/Deputy AG's end and the political appointees begin.
    Of course, I wouldn't want Congress to have control over the DOJ due to the same conflicts of interest as the others. And besides, gerrymandering made them less representative of the population as a whole than they should be while the Senate, by design, doesn't represent the will of the people.

    They need to be independent from them in who they are put into office and out of their control on who they investigate and how so long as they are legal. With the other branches having oversight of them incase we got another Barr or Trump in that position.

    Whether they are elected by will of the people, or made up of a board with equal parts both party where less than 50% is needed to initiate stuff to prevent the lockstep shit we have going now, I have no clue, but they shouldn't be beholden to the president or any branch on how they do their job.
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
    "mmo-champion.com##li.postbitignored"
    to your ublock or adblock filter to actually ignore ignored posters. Now just need a way to ignore responses to them as well.

  9. #12429
    Parnas' interview with Maddow has floored me. Anyone that has followed the Ukrainian scandal closely should drop everything and go watch it. He paints a clear picture of what we already knew/suspected, but my god apparently Barr is not just a zealot but entirely complicit. Not only did he know everything, he offered to drop Firtash's extradition charges and coordinated with FOX NEWS lawyers to get it all done. Pence of course also knew everything but that shouldn't shock anyone that has kept up.

    In the interview it also becomes very clear what exactly Bolton is going to be singing about if he gets called to the senate. I thought the GOP was softening their stance a bit on witnesses in the last few days, but now hell will freeze over before they let Bolton corroborate Parnas' account in the senate.

    Just go watch it.

  10. #12430
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormdash View Post
    Your daily reminder that the White House is the only source of governing legitimacy for any agency of the executive branch, cabinet level on down, and most of them were invented out of whole cloth within the last 80-90 years.

    Well, Nancy sure showed Mitch, huh? So leverage, much pressure.
    I like how you are ignoring everything that came out in the last few days, just to try to "own the libs" with some bullshit talking points that make you look like you are defending corruption.

  11. #12431
    Unfortunately I don't see any of them waking up from this, just more ignoring and claiming this guy was a deep state plant

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  12. #12432
    Quote Originally Posted by Dontrike View Post
    Unfortunately I don't see any of them waking up from this, just more ignoring and claiming this guy was a deep state plant
    That is because Fox News isn't reporting it. They are doing anything they can to stay away from it.

  13. #12433
    Very damning talk from Parnas. Ive never seen someone flip so fast and run to the news and pretty much just attempt to bury everyone. His credibility is in the lacking category which will be an issue but if true it will honestly be looked at by Trump supporters as he was trying to expose corruption by any means. Not that he was but you will get this from people. You will also get a lot of people who will just not care because hes a Republican. Sad state our countries in because i believe 90 to 95 percent of the population does give two hoots who the person is. Party is all that matters.

  14. #12434
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    I know their hands are tied, in a fashion, but I wish Ukraine's President and #2 would come out with the truth and stop with the coy attitude. They could end this here and now if they just say, "Yeah, Trump's team was demanding this phony investigation more for political expediency than for any wish to hunt down corruption. They made it abundantly clear what this was about. We obviously didn't want to involve ourselves in an American political matter, but they were giving us no choice. We dragged our feet with opening it, but were on the cusp of going through when the whistle blower report broke, then the Trump admin released the financial/military aid (no strings)"
    Last edited by Fahrenheit; 2020-01-16 at 01:11 PM.
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  15. #12435
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Congress is worse than Executive for oversight. Unless they are their own independent branch, which wouldn't work at all in our system, it has to be Judiciary. Nominate the AG from [somewhere] and appointed by the SCOTUS. Not sure where the other appointees would come from. It's an issue of admin law atm, but obviously that would change. I can't recall offhand where the career level Asst/Deputy AG's end and the political appointees begin.
    I think the DoJ should stay where it is. The problem with giving it to the SC is that then you'd have life appointed people with waaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyy toooo much power.

    However, there should be an investigative arm of the SC that specifically handles corruption in the other two branches.
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  16. #12436
    Quote Originally Posted by Trunksee View Post
    Very damning talk from Parnas. Ive never seen someone flip so fast and run to the news and pretty much just attempt to bury everyone. His credibility is in the lacking category which will be an issue but if true it will honestly be looked at by Trump supporters as he was trying to expose corruption by any means. Not that he was but you will get this from people. You will also get a lot of people who will just not care because hes a Republican. Sad state our countries in because i believe 90 to 95 percent of the population does give two hoots who the person is. Party is all that matters.
    Credibility? He has evidence that backs up everything he says, his evidence also backs up the stuff the other witnesses had with Yavanovich and everything to do with Ukraine. He has more credibility than Trump certainly does.

  17. #12437
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orbitus View Post
    I like how you are ignoring everything that came out in the last few days, just to try to "own the libs" with some bullshit talking points that make you look like you are defending corruption.
    His post is boilerplate conservative mantra. People that share his ideology shouldn't ever be near the levers of power.
    Quote Originally Posted by zenkai View Post
    There is a problem, but I know just banning guns will fix the problem.

  18. #12438
    Quote Originally Posted by Daelak View Post
    His post is boilerplate conservative mantra. People that share his ideology shouldn't ever be near the levers of power.
    Facts and reality doesn't penetrate the Fox News/right wing blogosphere bubble.

  19. #12439
    Quote Originally Posted by Trunksee View Post
    Very damning talk from Parnas. Ive never seen someone flip so fast and run to the news and pretty much just attempt to bury everyone. His credibility is in the lacking category which will be an issue but if true it will honestly be looked at by Trump supporters as he was trying to expose corruption by any means. Not that he was but you will get this from people. You will also get a lot of people who will just not care because hes a Republican. Sad state our countries in because i believe 90 to 95 percent of the population does give two hoots who the person is. Party is all that matters.
    Ahh yes, get stabbed in the back by someone who abuses loyalty to himself, or turn on Trump and save yourself. I bet you'd do the same if you were staring down the barrel of a long prison sentence and the person you committed crimes for was stabbing you in the back.

  20. #12440
    Quote Originally Posted by Beefhammer View Post
    Ahh yes, get stabbed in the back by someone who abuses loyalty to himself, or turn on Trump and save yourself. I bet you'd do the same if you were staring down the barrel of a long prison sentence and the person you committed crimes for was stabbing you in the back.
    Not saying any one wouldnt. My point is he did it in the press right after the house got the documents that is abnormal. Yes many many people turn under police or to reduce their sentences. Most dont run to the media to do it.

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