Mega-Thread: Impeachment Proceedings & Inquiry of Trump

[Endus]

We do have a potential way through, but it requires those at the top actually doing their jobs which they have sold out for their party to begin with.

We need to actually require that anything that is qualified as news, news commentary or even pretends to be such much be honest in what they say and must require them to give equal time to all sides of an issue and must have actual punishments for those that don't so bad that they refuse to break those rules.

We must deny these delusional people their safe spaces where they only get told what they want to hear and nothing about reality that contradicts their fantasies.

Regarding the bold, absolutely fucking not.

It's the media's attempt to be unfairly "balanced" in the '80s and '90s, to present "all sides" of issues like climate change and vaccination "equally", that encouraged the conspiracy disinformation bullshit that is climate change denial and anti-vaccing, among others. They should not be getting media coverage, outside of a "get a load of THESE nutjob idiots" type stuff.

Instead, they were given equal consideration and treatment to actual scientists, and a lot of gullible morons thought there was an actual debate going on about the issue.


That all said, they shouldn't be giving a mouthpiece to non-experts on issues. Including politicians, except for their views to be debunked by said experts. If you want to speak on the economy, let's see where your masters in economics is from (if not doctorate). You don't have a masters degree in the field? Then you don't know shit and we shouldn't give what you're saying much consideration at all. If you ARE right, let's have an actual expert come on to confirm it. If you can't find an expert who can defend your views, you're probably an idiot who's making shit up, and too stupid to realize it.

[Blade Wolf]

Back during the 2016 election season, Limbaugh removed all pretense of "conservative perspective and conservative values" on his show. He changed the theme of his show to showing how the left is devoid of all morals/ethics/etc. I mean, he did that before he went and changed his theme on-air. But now he's just blatant about it.

It's pretty terrible to listen to.

Limbaugh has taken to bashing Fox News for not defending Trump enough even. at this point he has jumped the shark so hardcore.

[Fugus]

Regarding the bold, absolutely fucking not.

It's the media's attempt to be unfairly "balanced" in the '80s and '90s, to present "all sides" of issues like climate change and vaccination "equally", that encouraged the conspiracy disinformation bullshit that is climate change denial and anti-vaccing, among others. They should not be getting media coverage, outside of a "get a load of THESE nutjob idiots" type stuff.

Instead, they were given equal consideration and treatment to actual scientists, and a lot of gullible morons thought there was an actual debate going on about the issue.


That all said, they shouldn't be giving a mouthpiece to non-experts on issues. Including politicians, except for their views to be debunked by said experts. If you want to speak on the economy, let's see where your masters in economics is from (if not doctorate). You don't have a masters degree in the field? Then you don't know shit and we shouldn't give what you're saying much consideration at all. If you ARE right, let's have an actual expert come on to confirm it. If you can't find an expert who can defend your views, you're probably an idiot who's making shit up, and too stupid to realize it.

I didn't say neutral, they are still able to be examined and analyzed on their merits, they just can't be ignored entirely or lied about. This forces them to address every side of the issues.

Bring up the crackpot thing, show how the entire scientific community is against it and the studies have been debunked and so on.


The issue gets addressed and spoken about honestly and not lied about.

[Shalcker]

It means nobody should be paying her much attention. The race is Biden, Warren, Sanders, and "everyone else". No one beyond the big three are showing numbers that have any real chance. Those numbers aren't growing to challenge the three frontrunners. At 3% in that poll, Gabbard's on-par with Harris, Klobuchar, and Steyer. Buttigieg is way in front of even those 4 (ahead of Sanders, even, there). She's functionally irrelevant at the national level. The idea that she's going to rise to be a frontrunner has no basis in reality. She has more support from Republicans and Russia than she's getting from Democrats.

Noone should be - and yet Clinton gives her substantial boost.

Even extreme boost, by your numbers - tripling so late into the cycle is no easy feat.

I don't know where you got idea that she is going to rise into frontrunner - i certainly never implied that.

[Rozz]

Discussion is getting a bit off topic. Certain conversations are better off in their respective threads, mega or otherwise. Keep in mind this is about the impeachment proceedings and not to delve too far on other tangents.

[Fugus]

Ah, and infracted for forbidden topics. Too bad things are never addressed which is why we are forced to keep discussing forbidden topics in the first place.

And again.

DO NOT FEED HIM!

You aren't helping the thread by doing so, you are derailing it with a known bad faith poster. This isn't a forbidden topic and as such, you shouldn't have edited it out.

[Infracted]

[Ashina]

It's more like Biden, Warren, Sanders and Buttigieg as he's surpassed Sanders in Iowa at this point and is within 5-7% of Warren and Biden in most recent polls.

Realistically the field needs to be winnowed down to 4-5 so people actually start paying attention to the debates.

This entire system of having month long primaries with 10-15-20-30+ candidates is one of the key reasons why sitting presidents are often reelected: fundraising and lack of focus.

Just pick your candidate and focus completely on him/her and the battle against Trump. All for one.

[Edge-]

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/tru...un-the-country

President Trump vented his frustration Monday about the criticisms leveled against him over recent controversies, including his Syria pullout decision, the location of the 2020 G-7 summit and the House’s “illegitimate” impeachment inquiry, while saying the "president of the United States should be allowed to run the country, not have to focus on this kind of crap."

In which the sitting Republican President of the United States seems to be under the mistaken assumption that he's a dictator and not an elected public servant with clear limitations on his power and checks from co-equal branches.

[Breccia]

In which the sitting Republican President of the United States seems to be under the mistaken assumption that he's a dictator

It's amazing the lack of self-awareness when he says that about all three of those being consequences of his own actions. I'm not sure which is worse, what that says about the Oval Office or what that says about Trump the human being.

[Levelfive]

It's amazing the lack of self-awareness when he says that about all three of those being consequences of his own actions. I'm not sure which is worse, what that says about the Oval Office or what that says about Trump the human being.

Our President
By Josh Marshall
|
October 21, 2019 9:07 am

"I know this is the first thing we learned about Trump. It’s obvious, ingrained, just basic to his whole personality. But it is still remarkable the degree to which at least half of Trump’s emotional life seems based on anger at close advisors and associates who are unable to clean up his messes to his own standards and satisfaction. Sometimes perhaps a staffer is hapless. But in virtually every case it is simply that his own actions make clean ups close to impossible. It is just a remarkable, beyond-caricature example of absent self-awareness, entitlement and, yes, narcissism."

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/our-president

[PACOX]

"Every time we have a deposition, it leads us in a slightly different direction,"

Rep. Gerry Connolly

Jesus, why is the GOP so corrupt?

[Shadowferal]

It’s every man for himself right now on Trump and Ukraine

If you want a friend in Washington, as the saying goes, get a dog.

But at this point, President Trump and some of his top aides would probably settle for someone willing to defend them.

A sampling:

The Justice Department said Mulvaney’s explanation of why Ukraine military aid was held up was “news to us.”

Jay Sekulow, a personal attorney for Trump, emphasized that his team wasn’t involved in Mulvaney’s news conference. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo declined to vouch for Mulvaney’s account on Sunday.

The Justice Department is distancing itself from Giuliani’s actions on Ukraine.

So is Gordon Sondland, the U.S. ambassador to the European Union.

So did Kurt Volker, the special envoy to Ukraine.

Sondland wouldn’t vouch for Trump on the lack of a Ukraine quid pro quo.

Sen. Lindsey O. Graham (R-S.C.) now says he’s open to impeachment if there is evidence of a real quid pro quo with Ukraine.

And the unwillingness to defend Trump has extended to Syria and plans to hold the Group of Seven summit at a Trump property in Florida, with the White House being forced to drop the idea due to a private uprising among Republicans already weary of defending Trump on impeachment.



----------------------

Trump Rages Over Republican Defections as Democrats Press on Impeachment

[mvaliz]

If you want a friend in Washington, as the saying goes, get a dog.

This goes a lot in explaining why Dumbass Dump is the first president in over a century to not have a dog. ;P

- - - Updated - - -

Trump Rages Over Republican Defections as Democrats Press on Impeachment

While it was just Dump apparently raging about Mitt Romney, these are still the moments I'm waiting for is when Dumbass Dump turns on the Republicans. In here, he's just saying "Republicans don't stick together like Democrats, they have people like Mitt Romney".

It's a start, but at least it's nice to see him finally taking a swing at his own Republican foundation... the only foundation he has left...

[Redwyrm]

This goes a lot in explaining why Dumbass Dump is the first president in over a century to not have a dog. ;P

I wouldn't trust Trump with a dog. Dog would be eating McDonald's. And that's probably the least of the issues with Trump and a dog.

[Edge-]

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/...e-lead-vpx.cnn

Apparently the WSJ got a hold of images from recently arrested Lev Parnas' Instagram account.

Contrary to Trump's claims that he has no clue who he is, he's sure in a lot of photo's with Trump and his family members. And a signed picture from Trump.

https://twitter.com/CourtneyHagle/st...69796721217537

CNN may be regretting their decision to hire former GOP Rep Sean Duffy.

Because his he was back with a second appearance to literally re-promote DNC server conspiracy theories.

This is pretty wild. Host Alisyn Camerota was having none of it and you can hear how totally done with him she is after he first opens his mouth to seriously promote the Crowdstrike conspiracy...and then go onto defend quid pro quo while asserting that it didn't happen.

They're not sending their best. They're sending their dumbest, their most ignorant, these aren't the best of the best.

[Orbitus]

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/...e-lead-vpx.cnn

Apparently the WSJ got a hold of images from recently arrested Lev Parnas' Instagram account.

Contrary to Trump's claims that he has no clue who he is, he's sure in a lot of photo's with Trump and his family members. And a signed picture from Trump.

https://twitter.com/CourtneyHagle/st...69796721217537

CNN may be regretting their decision to hire former GOP Rep Sean Duffy.

Because his he was back with a second appearance to literally re-promote DNC server conspiracy theories.

This is pretty wild. Host Alisyn Camerota was having none of it and you can hear how totally done with him she is after he first opens his mouth to seriously promote the Crowdstrike conspiracy...and then go onto defend quid pro quo while asserting that it didn't happen.

They're not sending their best. They're sending their dumbest, their most ignorant, these aren't the best of the best.

Yeah, totally didn't know him, covfefe boy.

[mvaliz]

They're not sending their best. They're sending their dumbest, their most ignorant, these aren't the best of the best.

Some of them, I assume, are just bad people.

[Cthulhu 2020]

It’s every man for himself right now on Trump and Ukraine

If you want a friend in Washington, as the saying goes, get a dog.

But at this point, President Trump and some of his top aides would probably settle for someone willing to defend them.

A sampling:

The Justice Department said Mulvaney’s explanation of why Ukraine military aid was held up was “news to us.”

Jay Sekulow, a personal attorney for Trump, emphasized that his team wasn’t involved in Mulvaney’s news conference. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo declined to vouch for Mulvaney’s account on Sunday.

The Justice Department is distancing itself from Giuliani’s actions on Ukraine.

So is Gordon Sondland, the U.S. ambassador to the European Union.

So did Kurt Volker, the special envoy to Ukraine.

Sondland wouldn’t vouch for Trump on the lack of a Ukraine quid pro quo.

Sen. Lindsey O. Graham (R-S.C.) now says he’s open to impeachment if there is evidence of a real quid pro quo with Ukraine.

And the unwillingness to defend Trump has extended to Syria and plans to hold the Group of Seven summit at a Trump property in Florida, with the White House being forced to drop the idea due to a private uprising among Republicans already weary of defending Trump on impeachment.



----------------------

Trump Rages Over Republican Defections as Democrats Press on Impeachment

Every Republican was behind Nixon during the entire investigation... and used a lot of the same propaganda and rhetoric.

But when it began to look like he was indefensible, they suddenly turned on him. When he looked for friends in the house to vote against his impeachment, he found none, and that was when he decided to resign instead of being voted out.

Of course we know much of the same will play out with Trump. Many are already turning on him, and when he finds no allies in the Senate, he's not going to resign gracefully. He's going to be dragged kicking and screaming out of the white house in handcuffs after the Senate vote to remove him.

[kaelleria]

Super relevant to the Ukraine situation -
Trump got advice on Ukraine from Putin and Orban.

Putin and Hungary’s Orban helped sour Trump on Ukraine

President Trump’s effort to pressure Ukraine for information he could use against political rivals came as he was being urged to adopt a hostile view of that country by its regional adversaries, including Russian President Vladi*mir Putin, current and former U.S. officials said.

Trump’s conversations with Putin, Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban and others reinforced his perception of Ukraine as a hopelessly corrupt country — one that Trump now also appears to believe sought to undermine him in the 2016 U.S. election, the officials said.

Neither of those foreign leaders specifically encouraged Trump to see Ukraine as a potential source of damaging information about Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden, nor did they describe Kyiv as complicit in an unsubstantiated 2016 election conspiracy, officials said.

But their disparaging depictions of Ukraine reinforced Trump’s perceptions of the country and fed a dysfunctional dynamic in which White House officials struggled to persuade Trump to support the fledgling government in Kyiv instead of exploiting it for political purposes, officials said.


The role played by Putin and Orban, a hard-right leader who has often allied himself with the Kremlin’s positions, was described in closed-door testimony last week by George Kent, a deputy assistant secretary of state, before House impeachment investigators, U.S. officials said.

Kent cited the influence of those leaders as a factor that helped sour Trump on Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky in the months leading up to their July 25 phone call — a conversation that triggered an extraordinary whistleblower complaint as well as a House impeachment inquiry.

U.S. officials emphasized that while Putin and Orban denigrated Ukraine, Trump’s decision to seek damaging material on Biden was more directly driven by Trump’s own impulses and Kyiv conspiracy theories promoted by his attorney Rudolph W. Giuliani.

In their early May phone call, Putin “did what he always does” in seeking to undercut the United States’ relationship with Ukraine, said a former U.S. official familiar with details of the conversation. “He has always said Ukraine is just a den of corruption.”

The efforts to poison Trump’s views toward Zelensky were anticipated by national security officials at the White House, officials said. But the voices of Putin and Orban took on added significance this year because of the departure or declining influence of those who had sought to blunt the influence of Putin and other authoritarian leaders over Trump.


Officials cited the departures of Defense Secretary Jim Mattis and White House Chief of Staff John F. Kelly, both of whom had backed U.S. military assistance to Ukraine but were no longer in position to protect that stream of funding when it was suspended in the weeks leading up to Trump’s July 25 phone call.

National security adviser John Bolton was also seen as a fervent backer of Ukraine in its conflict with Russia, but his relationship with Trump deteriorated rapidly this year before he was pushed out of the White House last month.

“Over time you just see a wearing down of the defenses,” a former White House official said, describing the struggle to contest the influence of Giuliani, Putin and Orban.

The House impeachment inquiry is centered on Trump’s alleged attempt to use the power of his office to coerce Ukraine into taking measures that the president hoped would help him in the 2020 election.

There is no evidence that Putin spoke about Biden or endorsed Giuliani’s unsubstantiated claims that it was Ukraine — and not Russia — that had interfered in the 2016 election. Still, officials said that treating Ukraine as a pawn is consistent with Putin’s approach toward the former Soviet republic.

American policy has for years been “built around containing malign Russian influence” in Eastern Europe, a U.S. official said. Trump’s apparent susceptibility to the arguments he hears from Putin and Orban are “an example of the president himself under malign influence — being steered by it.”

The official and others spoke on the condition of anonymity, citing the sensitivity of internal discussions at the White House and the ongoing impeachment inquiry.

The White House did not respond to requests for comment.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...5ce_story.html

Say it with me now - TRUMPS UKRAINE CALL WAS PERFECT AND IN THE BEST INTERESTS OF THE COUNTRY AND TOTALLY NOT INFLUENCED BY PUTIN

[Fugus]

Ah, and infracted for forbidden topics. Too bad things are never addressed which is why we are forced to keep discussing forbidden topics in the first place.

And again.

DO NOT FEED HIM!

You aren't helping the thread by doing so, you are derailing it with a known bad faith poster. This isn't a forbidden topic and as such, you shouldn't have edited it out.

[Infracted]

@Rozz

What exactly isn't forbidden? We can't talk about moderation, so I didn't talk about moderation. Are we banned from even mentioning the concept of forbidden topics in the abstract now? Seriously?

How is this against the rules but we have so many others who derail this stuff for 10-15 pages at a time allowed to continue unabated?