Mega-Thread: Impeachment Proceedings & Inquiry of Trump

[Breccia]

So now we’ve moved from denying the aid was tied to this shit to, “But Ukraine didn’t know why we were holding it up!”

And I'm pretty sure that's also a lie.

[Thekri]

You're right, my apologies I meant to stay house minority leader, senate has nothing to do with this for now. Thank you, this gives the guy more credit to what is going on since he's part of the house.

The House has had enough votes to impeach him for quite some time now. Anything any GOP member of the house says is completely irrelevant unless they can convince Senators.

[Gelannerai]

So in the last few pages we’ve run the gamut of Trump -supporters rolling in with fearmongering/veiled threats, finding A single source/story to back up their defense of Trump that is totally based on hearsay from a completely right wing-biased source, and drive-by flameposts that don’t actually address the discussion at hand. Neat.

[zenkai]

The House has had enough votes to impeach him for quite some time now. Anything any GOP member of the house says is completely irrelevant unless they can convince Senators.

Then what is the hold up?

[draynay]

Then what is the hold up?

Why are you afraid of the investigation?

[the game]

They’re still gathering evidence.

If they haven't seen all the evidence yet then how can they have enough votes? Sounds like those votes have an agenda.

[Redwyrm]

Then what is the hold up?

Why are you in such a hurry? A deliberate and thorough review of all evidence and testimony should be welcomed. You would still complain if they had the vote early and call it a rush to judgment. I rather have everyone get their ducks in a row and make sure all I's are dotted and T's crossed to make sure this is seen as a serious and important collection of facts. Once everything is on the table, then we can bring it up for a vote.

But, apparently some people are scared of facts or the search for facts.

[Breccia]

If they haven't seen all the evidence yet then how can they have enough votes?

Just because you have someone dead to rights for one murder, doesn't mean you fail to investigate and prosecute for the other five they're suspected of.

Simply put, most Democrats will impeach based on what we have already in public: multiple witnesses saying Trump extorted a foreign country to attack a political rival. Most Republicans are still claiming there's not enough evidence, hiding behind such things as "hearsay" or "the multiple witnesses are all somehow biased" or "he appoints judges and I can't get re-elected without him". Stronger evidence, which is being gathered, will dismantle those excuses. Or, equally useful, when the subpoenas to get that evidence are blocked, that's obstruction, which in turn is criminal, and that will require Republicans to invent new excuses.

It's not really about an "agenda". "Trump didn't do it" is no longer the excuse, "Trump didn't mean it" is also gone, it's "we have to adhere to the process" now. You don't need an "agenda" to prosecute someone who broke the law. You need to do your job.

[zenkai]

Why are you afraid of the investigation?

I'm not, but if they have the votes, why don't they do it?

- - - Updated - - -

They’re still gathering evidence.

But if they have the votes why wait?

- - - Updated - - -

Why are you in such a hurry? A deliberate and thorough review of all evidence and testimony should be welcomed. You would still complain if they had the vote early and call it a rush to judgment. I rather have everyone get their ducks in a row and make sure all I's are dotted and T's crossed to make sure this is seen as a serious and important collection of facts. Once everything is on the table, then we can bring it up for a vote.

But, apparently some people are scared of facts or the search for facts.

Not scared of anything, it's no skin off my back if he gets impeached I just want to know if they have the votes to impeach as was stated, then why are they holding it up, if they have the votes then that means they already feel they have enough evidence. To have the votes without evidence, well that would be something wouldn't it?

[zenkai]

I told you why. The investigation isn’t competed yet. After it is, which will include public hearings, they’ll hold the vote and pass it to the senate for trial. Why do you want them to rush the process?

To get it over with, do you want it to drag out?

[Belize]

To get it over with, do you want it to drag out?

Why do you not want justice to be served appropriately?

Being a WoKe InDePeNdEnT, I would think you would be happy to see Congress doing their job, and conducting a thorough investigation of well supported claims of corruption and abuse of power by the Office of the President.

So why don't you?

[zenkai]

Why do you not want justice to be served appropriately?

Being a WoKe InDePeNdEnT, I would think you would be happy to see Congress doing their job, and conducting a thorough investigation of well supported claims of corruption and abuse of power by the Office of the President.

So why don't you?

The question revolves around the statement "they already have the votes", if they already have the votes then that means they already have the evidence they need, no?

[kaelleria]

Apparently the Freedom Caucus charged the SCIF yelling about transparency and process.
They also had their electronics and those needed to be confiscated.

Also Senator John Thune on all the reporting and the opening statement - "The picture is not a good one"

Are those cracks I see?

[Endus]

The question revolves around the statement "they already have the votes", if they already have the votes then that means they already have the evidence they need, no?

No.

This argument you're making is fundamentally irrational. Investigations flatly do not work like that. You don't find "enough evidence to convict", you find "all the evidence you can, and if this leads you to potential new offenses, you investigate those as well".

You're deliberately misrepresenting really fucking basic concepts.

[Breccia]

you find "all the evidence you can, and if this leads you to potential new offenses, you investigate those as well".

For example, Whitewater -> Lewinski. That's literally the last impeachment inquiry we had.

[kaelleria]

ICYMI -

• Whitaker - Abuse of power is not a crime!
  https://www.thedailybeast.com/former...is-not-a-crime
• Trump - Ukraine didn't know about it, so its not a quid pro quo so it's ok!

[Breccia]

Apparently the Freedom Caucus charged the SCIF yelling about transparency and process.

Sorry, are you talking about the closed-door hearings?

[Belize]

The question revolves around the statement "they already have the votes", if they already have the votes then that means they already have the evidence they need, no?

For the same reason that the police conducts a formal investigation even though they may have conclusive evidence. To form a bulletproof case to bring in front of a jury (the Senate).

I'm disappointed that you're so against due process. It really puts a dent in your claims to be an independent in favor of law and order.

[zenkai]

No.

This argument you're making is fundamentally irrational. Investigations flatly do not work like that. You don't find "enough evidence to convict", you find "all the evidence you can, and if this leads you to potential new offenses, you investigate those as well".

You're deliberately misrepresenting really fucking basic concepts.

I was told they already have the votes, how am I misrepresenting that? If they have the votes then they have the evidence, or do you say they have the votes before they have the evidence? which is it, it can only be one or the other.

[Paranoid Android]

You actually think that Pence isn't caught up in this? Because as far as I am concerned, he should absolutely be going down with him. Considering that he was meeting with Zelensky at the order of Trump several times, like at the G20 I think it was. I mean, we got Trump, Pence, Barr, Pompeo, Guiliani, Guiliani's 4 associates or clients whatever you want to call them, and I think a few others.

President Pelosi anyone?

Seriously as @Skroe stated the Democrats are the most spineless, organism on this planet, especially their leaders Pelosi and Schumer.

If we get to this point and let's say the Republicans make a deal, the deal would be Pence serves out the term. So again in a worst or some would say best case scenario, Pence is just as guilty. The spineless Dems will give Pence a pass.

A lot conjecture here, so more of a comment on Dems in this process.