1. #6061
    This is the Republican strategy for defending Trump....
    https://www.axios.com/donald-trump-i...58ccb1a69.html

    "The July 25 call summary — the best evidence of the conversation — shows no conditionality or evidence of pressure."

    "President Zelensky and President Trump have both said there was no pressure on the call."

    "The Ukrainian government was not aware of a hold on U.S. security assistance at the time of the July 25 call."

    "President Trump met with President Zelensky and U.S. security assistance flowed to Ukraine in September 2019 — both of which occurred without Ukraine investigating President Trump's political rivals."
    These talking points are pathetic and easily refuted with already open source reporting.

  2. #6062
    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    The absolute hilarity.
    But I thought he already released it? Weird how he's always going to do something he says has already happened.

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  3. #6063
    The Undying Breccia's Avatar
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    This is Team Trump we're talking about, so obviously this could change any second, but, [url=https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/470039-mulvaney-drops-plans-to-file-lawsuit-on-impeachment-testimony]Mulvaney drops plans to file lawsuit on impeachment testimony[/uirl]

    His attorneys notified a federal court that Mulvaney, after further consideration, “does not intend to pursue litigation regarding the deposition subpoena issued to him by the U.S. House of Representatives” and will instead obey directions from Trump to ignore the subpoena altogether.

    “Rather, he will rely on the direction of the President, as supported by an opinion of the Office of Legal Counsel of the U.S. Department of Justice, in not appearing for the relevant deposition,” Mulvaney’s attorneys, William Pittard and Christopher Muha, wrote in a filing in D.C. District Court on Tuesday.
    If I'm reading that right ( @cubby ?) then, instead of explaining why he doesn't need to comply with a subpoena in court with legal precedence and citations, he's just not going to show up.

  4. #6064
    I can't help but wonder if Trump is actually forced to go under oath, the Republican pivot their defense to that of the Affluenza teen trying to state that he has a mental condition that prevents from understanding his actions have consequences.
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
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  5. #6065
    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    I can't help but wonder if Trump is actually forced to go under oath, the Republican pivot their defense to that of the Affluenza teen trying to state that he has a mental condition that prevents from understanding his actions have consequences.
    I actually would look forward to them using that excuse because it would prove to the rest of the world that they definitely allowed an individual to remain in the White House despite knowing how unfit he was (and for this long). Their defense of anything moving forward in regards to this would go down in flames.
    Looking for <Good Quotes for Signature>.

  6. #6066
    I am Murloc! Noxx79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    I can't help but wonder if Trump is actually forced to go under oath, the Republican pivot their defense to that of the Affluenza teen trying to state that he has a mental condition that prevents from understanding his actions have consequences.
    25th amendment time then, and then impeaching pence for allowing this to go on so long.

  7. #6067
    Quote Originally Posted by Noxx79 View Post
    25th amendment time then, and then impeaching pence for allowing this to go on so long.
    They would have to admit they let it slide this entire time and disregarded their country for political power. They won't do that until it costs them too much to do otherwise.

    They have been party over nation for a while now.
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
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    to your ublock or adblock filter to actually ignore ignored posters. Now just need a way to ignore responses to them as well.

  8. #6068
    Pandaren Monk wunksta's Avatar
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    But, according to current Senate procedure, McConnell will still need a simple majority—51 of the 53 Senate Republicans—to support any resolution outlining rules governing the trial. That means that if only three Republican senators were to break from the caucus, they could block any rule they didn’t like. (Vice President Mike Pence can’t break ties in impeachment matters.) Those three senators, in turn, could demand a secret ballot and condition their approval of the rest of the rules on getting one.
    https://www.politico.com/magazine/st...-office-229911

  9. #6069
    The Undying
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    This is Team Trump we're talking about, so obviously this could change any second, but, [url=https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/470039-mulvaney-drops-plans-to-file-lawsuit-on-impeachment-testimony]Mulvaney drops plans to file lawsuit on impeachment testimony[/uirl]

    If I'm reading that right ( @cubby ?) then, instead of explaining why he doesn't need to comply with a subpoena in court with legal precedence and citations, he's just not going to show up.
    It's a rather smart version of ask for forgiveness rather than permission. Frankly, I'm surprised they even tried to do this initially. Basically, Mulvaney is saying fuck you to the House and making them sue to get him in there.

    I would have to guess that the House is going to subpoena those they want, depose those that show up, and then vote based on the testimony and evidence they have. Leaving the "get in here right the fuck now or I'll throw your ass in jail" to Roberts during the Senate Trial.

  10. #6070
    https://www.businessinsider.com/trum...plaint-2019-11

    President Donald Trump wanted to fire Michael Atkinson, the intelligence community inspector general who deemed a whistleblower complaint about Trump to be urgent and credible, The New York Times reported, citing four people familiar with the discussions.

    Trump first expressed his anger toward Atkinson in September, when the complaint became public, the report said. The president said he didn't understand why Atkinson shared the complaint with Congress and believed it was a sign that Atkinson was disloyal to him.
    This alone should be impeachable.

    IG, and all government employees, are loyal to The Constitution first and foremost, always. A president constantly demanding personal loyalty is a serious problem that undermines the normal functioning of government.

    Atkinson had a legal duty to share his findings with Congress, not protect Trump from his own potentially illegal behavior.

  11. #6071
    The Undying
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    https://www.businessinsider.com/trum...plaint-2019-11



    This alone should be impeachable.

    IG, and all government employees, are loyal to The Constitution first and foremost, always. A president constantly demanding personal loyalty is a serious problem that undermines the normal functioning of government.

    Atkinson had a legal duty to share his findings with Congress, not protect Trump from his own potentially illegal behavior.
    Trump subverting democracy - another day ending in "y".

    I agree that this is a stand-alone impeachable offense. It will be very interesting to see what the final version of the Articles Impeachment actually charge. The Dems won't get a second crack at this (despite the litany of charges the House could legitimately draw up) so they have to get it right the first time. Not too many, not too few.

  12. #6072
    The Lightbringer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Queue the usual sockpuppets and shitposters actually not giving a shit or trying to try and derail the thread again with their garbage in response to this, lol.

  13. #6073
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    I get that a secret ballot is the best chance of actually removing Trump, but I hate it anyway. Removing a President by a secret ballot is disgraceful, and will hurt this country badly. It gives cowardly GOP Reps a way out (Which is why it is the best chance of succeeding), but it perpetrates the problems that caused the Trump Administration in the first place.

    Absolutely no secret ballot should be allowed. Every single Senator needs to be on record with his or her vote on this. Our Republic cannot stand without at least a little courage.

  14. #6074
    I dunno...a secret ballot puts removal of a president on the whole of the GOP.

  15. #6075
    Quote Originally Posted by Thekri View Post
    I get that a secret ballot is the best chance of actually removing Trump, but I hate it anyway. Removing a President by a secret ballot is disgraceful, and will hurt this country badly. It gives cowardly GOP Reps a way out (Which is why it is the best chance of succeeding), but it perpetrates the problems that caused the Trump Administration in the first place.

    Absolutely no secret ballot should be allowed. Every single Senator needs to be on record with his or her vote on this. Our Republic cannot stand without at least a little courage.
    Not to mention falls right into the deep state conspiracy nonsense, cause you know every republican who votes yes, is going to publicly say they voted no.

  16. #6076
    I love how unhinged Hannity is getting.

    "Impeachment is a witch hunt and Democrats are ignoring due process! Also, Hillary is evil and Democrats are ignoring how guilty she is!"

  17. #6077
    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrt View Post
    I love how unhinged Hannity is getting.

    "Impeachment is a witch hunt and Democrats are ignoring due process! Also, Hillary is evil and Democrats are ignoring how guilty she is!"
    Apparently he and this John Soloman douchebag that was removed from the Hill, are some of the morons besides Guiliani and his fellow co-conspirators, that have been pushing this conspiracy theory. And apparently Guiliani was in contact with Manafort, who was also pushing it during the 2016 campaign.

  18. #6078
    Quote Originally Posted by Orbitus View Post
    Apparently he and this John Soloman douchebag that was removed from the Hill, are some of the morons besides Guiliani and his fellow co-conspirators, that have been pushing this conspiracy theory. And apparently Guiliani was in contact with Manafort, who was also pushing it during the 2016 campaign.
    I just love the irony of him screaming about Trump not getting due process while at the same time screaming "lock them up" about Clinton and Biden.

  19. #6079
    So this tidbit is super relevant -
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...39d_story.html

    At donor dinner, Giuliani associate said he discussed Ukraine with Trump, according to people familiar with his account

    The April 2018 dinner was designed to be an intimate affair, an opportunity for a handful of big donors to a super PAC allied with President Trump to personally interact with the president and his eldest son.

    In an exclusive suite known as the Trump Townhouse at Trump’s Washington hotel, the group — including Jack Nicklaus III, the grandson of the famous golfer, and a New York developer — snapped photos, dined and chatted about their pet issues with the president for about 90 minutes.

    Among those in attendance were two Florida business executives who had little history with Republican politics but had snagged a spot at the dinner with the promise of a major contribution to the America First super PAC. They turned the conversation to Ukraine, according to people familiar with the event, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to describe the private dinner.


    One of the men, Lev Parnas, has described to associates that he and his business partner, Igor Fruman, told Trump at the dinner that they thought the U.S. ambassador to Ukraine was unfriendly to the president and his interests.

    According to Parnas, the president reacted strongly to the news: Trump immediately suggested that then-Ambassador Marie *Yovanovitch, who had been in the Foreign Service for 32 years and served under Democratic and Republican presidents, should be fired, people familiar with his account said.

    How two Soviet-born emigres made it into elite Trump circles — and the center of the impeachment storm

    Parnas declined to comment. Todd Blanche, a lawyer for Fruman, declined to comment.

    The White House did not respond to a request for comment.

    Parnas’s account of personally discussing Ukraine with Trump more than 18 months ago suggests that he and Fruman had more personal interaction with the president — and potentially more influence over his views on that country — than the White House has acknowledged.


    Trump has said he does not know the two men, who later partnered with Trump’s personal attorney Rudolph W. Giuliani to hunt for damaging material about Democrats in Ukraine before being charged last month with funneling foreign money into campaign contributions. They have pleaded not guilty.

    “Now it’s possible I have a picture with them because I have a picture with everybody,” the president said the day after they were arrested at Dulles International Airport last month, adding: “I don’t know what they do, but, I don’t know, maybe they were clients of Rudy.”

    But the two men had some personal interactions with Trump, both before and after they met Giuliani in the summer of 2018. Those included encounters at a Florida fundraiser in 2016 and during a visit to Mar-a-Lago, the president’s private estate, according to social media accounts and people who encountered them.

    Parnas’s account of the 2018 dinner is the first indication that he or Fruman interacted directly with Trump about Ukraine. His description of their conversation suggests that the Boca Raton businessman, who emigrated as a child from Ukraine, could hold key information about Trump’s pressure campaign on his home country — an effort that set in motion the ongoing impeachment inquiry.

    The president was updated regularly by Giuliani on what he was learning about Parnas’s and Fruman’s efforts in Ukraine, according to a former senior administration official who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the ongoing investigation.

    “It’s just not true that he had no idea who these guys were. He knew Lev particularly,” the person said.

    In February, Parnas and Fruman met with Ukraine’s then-president, Petro Poroshenko, according to Edward B. MacMahon Jr., a lawyer for Parnas. They were doing so, he said, on a request from Giuliani, who was acting on orders from Trump.


    MacMahon said the two proposed that in exchange for a state visit, the Ukrainian president would announce investigations into former vice president Joe Biden’s son and an unfounded theory that Ukraine interfered in the 2016 presidential race.

    Giuliani associates pressed past president of Ukraine to announce Biden investigation in exchange for state visit

    In an interview last week, Giuliani declined to comment on his interactions with the two men, citing the criminal investigation. But he said Parnas and Fruman already had met the president when he first encountered them in the summer of 2018. “I did not introduce them to the president,” he said.

    In an interview with The Washington Post before his arrest, Parnas said he got involved in the Trump campaign because he admired the real estate developer, whom he said he had met several times before the election.

    “I think he’s going to go down as one of the greatest presidents ever, even with all this negativity,” he said.

    Parnas’s attorneys have now indicated that he is disappointed with Trump’s efforts to distance himself, suggesting that he may be willing to cooperate with the congressional inquiry.

    “There isn’t anything that Parnas did in the Ukraine relative to the Bidens or the 2016 election that he wasn’t asked to do by Giuliani, who was acting on the direction of the president,” MacMahon said.

    But it is not clear if Democrats are interested in negotiating for his testimony, given the criminal case filed against him in New York.

    Prosecutors have alleged that Parnas and Fruman gave campaign contributions to the pro-Trump super PAC and other political committees in an effort “to advance their personal financial interests and the political interests of at least one Ukrainian government official with whom they were working.”

    Yovanovitch testified that she was told by a Ukrainian official in February that Parnas and Fruman were working with Giuliani and that they were “interested in having a different ambassador at post, I guess for — because they wanted to have business dealings in Ukraine or additional business dealings.”

    An attorney for Parnas, Joseph A. Bondy, said that he “denies having participated in the President and Mr. Guiliani’s efforts to remove Ambassador Yovanovitch at the request of Ukrainian government officials or to benefit his and Mr. Fruman’s prospective liquefied natural gas business interests in Ukraine.”

    However, people who spoke to Parnas and Fruman said that they spoke often of their displeasure with Yovanovitch and claimed they had personally discussed the ambassador with Trump on more than one occasion.

    “They were constantly complaining about her,” said one person in touch with the duo starting in the summer of 2018.

    The person said they were “constantly shellshocked” that Trump had stated clearly to them that he wanted to get rid of Yovanovitch, but that many months passed and she remained in place.

    In an interview with The Post last month, Giuliani said that Trump blamed the State Department for slow-walking his desire to remove Yovanovitch. “The president fired her three times and thought she was gone,” he said. “The president thought she was gone long before she was actually fired.”

    More than a year after the dinner at the Trump hotel, Yovanovitch was summarily removed from her post following a campaign in conservative media to paint her as an Obama administration holdover opposed to Trump. She testified that she was told by State Department officials that she had done nothing wrong but that the president had been advocating for her removal since the summer of 2018. She denied that she been in any way disloyal to Trump.

    Two months after Yovanovitch’s removal, Zelensky and Trump discussed her in the phone conversation that sparked calls for Trump’s impeachment. According to a rough transcript released by the White House, Zelensky told Trump: “It was great that you were the first one who told me that she was a bad ambassador because I agree with you 100%.” It is not clear when Trump first told Zelensky about the ambassador.

    Trump responded, “Well, she’s going to go through some things.”

    The president’s hostility to Yovanovitch appears to have begun even earlier than previously known. He reacted strongly when her role in Ukraine came up with Parnas and Fruman at the April 30, 2018, dinner at his Washington hotel, according to Parnas’s account.

    Trump’s eldest son, Donald Trump Jr., was also in attendance. Alan Futerfas, an attorney for Trump Jr., said in a statement that “over the past few years, he has attended literally hundreds of donor events. Nothing about this one stands out.”

    The president’s son stoked conservative anger toward Yovanovitch this spring by retweeting an article calling for her removal and saying we need “less of these jokers as ambassadors.”

    The Trump hotel dinner was one of several events for top donors, designed to show that the super PAC was the right venue for supporters to send large checks, according to a person familiar with the event who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss the private dinner.

    Kelly Sadler, a spokeswoman for the super PAC, said the roundtable dinner was “typical of the dinners arranged for potential donors.”

    About 15 people were in attendance, including Nicklaus, according to people familiar with the event. Also in attendance, they said, was Stanley Gale, a real estate developer from New York, whose company developed a massive complex in South Korea, including a golf course designed by Nicklaus. Gale pitched the president on using his property to host a summit with the leader of North Korea, according to people familiar with the dinner.

    Nicklaus did not respond to requests for comment. Gale declined to comment.

    In addition to Nicklaus, other attendees included Tommy Hicks Jr., a Republican fundraiser who is close friends with Trump’s son, as well as Roy Bailey, a Texas businessman who has served as a top Trump fundraiser and is close to Giuliani, the people said. Neither responded to requests for comment.

    After the dinner, Parnas posted photos of it on social media, erroneously tagging it as having been held at the White House.

    In one image, he stood with Trump between two American flags, giving a thumbs-up.

    “Thank you President Trump !!!” he wrote, adding, “incredible dinner and even better conversation.”

  20. #6080
    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrt View Post
    I just love the irony of him screaming about Trump not getting due process while at the same time screaming "lock them up" about Clinton and Biden.
    Yep, irony is not something they ever heard of apparently.

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