1. #11301

  2. #11302
    Quote Originally Posted by Levelfive View Post
    I know I've linked the article several times, but nothing will change unless Republications start getting a taste of their own medicine (and it will continue never ever mattering what Democrats actually do or don't do--they will still make any claim or tell any lie): https://www.vox.com/2018/5/1/1725886...trump-election

    Maybe it's the wrong call, whatever, but I'm really fucking sick of their perpetually unchecked shit. And I'm also tired of the whole defensive crouch "but if Democrats do X, then they'll just do Y" thing--they've been teaching us for years they'll do Y anyfuckingway.
    There's a line at the end of the series Person of interest where one of the characters goes on a speech about principles in a fight and the other character retorts well we will be the world's most principled corpses. That is what I see whenever democrats take the "high road", to beat these people you have to do whatever it takes to win.

  3. #11303
    Quote Originally Posted by noidentity View Post
    So what? She takes pictures with all her biggest fans. That doesn't mean anything! She has fans everywhere! She's like Elizabeth Warren!

    (/s)

    I swear, Republicans seem to have the worst memories, dating back to Bush Jr's AG Alberto Gonzales (and probably way earlier) -


  4. #11304
    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    Will copy/paste this from something I posted on Facebook.

    "If he really tries to call the Biden's to try and shut this down and the Biden's have any brains at all, all they have to do is repeat these points.

    1) Ousting the prosecutor was done with bipartisan congressional and international support for not actually going for corruption. Which stops that in it's tracks.

    2) Biden didn't get a private company to hire him, unlike Trump hiring them directly. Which blows up in the Republicans face.

    And if they go to Crowdstrike, point out they are a US based company and the server was cloud based to debunk them.

    Or just cut to the chase and point out they are repeating debunked Russian conspiracy theories and repeatedly ask them what relevance they have to the investigation as they aren't Trump, they never communicated with Trump, and had no part in Trumps actual decisions to withhold aid or to attempt to extort them.

    Quite literally, just repeat this the entire time and at that point, all they can do is stop asking them questions and try and grandstand at which point they can follow up after their time is up by pointing out publicly they did not ask them anything or refute any of the charges."
    I mean, it would be some combination of disastrous and farcical (disastrical) to let them muddy the waters by having either Biden testify, or Adam Schiff or whoever populates Nunes' / Trump's / Graham's wet fever Democrat-hate dreams at the moment.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    There's a line at the end of the series Person of interest where one of the characters goes on a speech about principles in a fight and the other character retorts well we will be the world's most principled corpses. That is what I see whenever democrats take the "high road", to beat these people you have to do whatever it takes to win.
    Preach. Here's the final paragraph of that article:

    "I don’t think we can restore order by respecting rules that are not respected by Republicans. I do believe we’ll have to find a way to end this procedural war at some point, but now is not that time. Republicans need to know what it’s like to be on the other end of normative violations. The Republicans are behaving like a party that believes it will never be held accountable for anything they’re doing, and so far they haven’t been."

  5. #11305
    Quote Originally Posted by Levelfive View Post
    I mean, it would be some combination of disastrous and farcical (disastrical) to let them muddy the waters by having either Biden testify, or Adam Schiff or whoever populates Nunes' / Trump's / Graham's wet fever Democrat-hate dreams at the moment.
    Oh, I know they would go into them hardcore screaming and grandstanding at every opportunity. But to everyone watching, it would backfire on them spectacularly if they did what I suggest.

    They ask about the server. Debunked Russians Conspiracy theory and ask why they are repeating it.
    They ask about the prosecutor. Already been investigated and cleared, repeating a debunked conspiracy theory and ask why they are repeating it.

    They ask about stuff relevant to the case. There is no way they could honestly know themselves so every response is a rehearsed, "I was not involved with Trump, his people, his withholding of aid to the Ukraine, nor his attempts to extort them so how could I possibly know any of that? I factually have nothing to do with the subject matter of this case and I believe I was only called to be used as a Republican scapegoat to try and turn this into a circus".

    If they ask about irrelevant stuff, Answer with "How is that relevant to this?"

    If they just sit and grandstand, let them do the whole thing and as soon as that persons time is up, reply to point out that not once their entire time did they ask me a question or refute any evidence and if they repeated conspiracy theories, also point out they are repeating them and ask why they are repeating debunked conspiracy theories.

    Don't have to ignore the subpoena, don't have to filibuster, just reply to everything they got with them answers and make it torture for them to ask them anything because the reply always calls them out and points out what they are doing.

    Edit: This approach also denies them their soundbites they try and get them in.
    Last edited by Fugus; 2020-01-16 at 11:54 PM.
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
    "mmo-champion.com##li.postbitignored"
    to your ublock or adblock filter to actually ignore ignored posters. Now just need a way to ignore responses to them as well.

  6. #11306
    Man, for nobody knowing who the heck Lev Parnas is, he sure finds a way to make it into a lot of photo-ops with Trump's inner circle!

  7. #11307
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Man, for nobody knowing who the heck Lev Parnas is, he sure finds a way to make it into a lot of photo-ops with Trump's inner circle!
    Ha! I wish I could find the tweet but someone called him the Forrest Gump of political corruption.
    Democrats are the best! I will never ever question a Democrat again. I LOVE the Democrats!

  8. #11308
    Quote Originally Posted by solinari6 View Post
    https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/16/polit...yde/index.html
    CNN reporting that the FBI is at Robert Hyde's house. OOF!
    I don't know about you, but it sounded a lot like they were planning to murder a US diplomat for interfering with their 2020 election tampering...

  9. #11309

  10. #11310
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    Anybody can walk into the White House and get a photo with the president, high level staffers, and a tour. And anyone can get formal invitations to White House meals. This is a nothingberder, who is that guy even?!

    (/s)

    What kills me is that people actually fucking believe these dishonest fucksticks.

  11. #11311
    My favorite part of the "I don't even know the guy" is the parade of pictures of various GOP people with the guy.

  12. #11312
    The Undying
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clone View Post
    I have to say I'm feeling giddy with each new revelation.
    Agreed. I still don't see the Senate doing anything about it. They seem to be doubling down on ignorance/stupidity/blind-loyalty.

    Can the House and Senate form a Joint Committee on their own without passing some kind of law? I can't imagine it takes more than agreement between the leadership. I'm (hopefully) thinking ahead to mid-2021 after the White House and Senate are under Democratic (more than just the party, if you get my meaning) control. The best choice for the Truth and Reconcilliation Committee will be a Joint Committee, with an appointed Special Prosecutor to run the show.

  13. #11313
    Looks like Ukraine's going to open that investigation Trump wanted.

    Oh wait, never mind, they're investigating Trump's lackeys.

  14. #11314
    The Undying
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    Quote Originally Posted by Levelfive View Post
    I know I've linked the article several times, but nothing will change unless Republications start getting a taste of their own medicine (and it will continue never ever mattering what Democrats actually do or don't do--they will still make any claim or tell any lie): https://www.vox.com/2018/5/1/1725886...trump-election

    Maybe it's the wrong call, whatever, but I'm really fucking sick of their perpetually unchecked shit. And I'm also tired of the whole defensive crouch "but if Democrats do X, then they'll just do Y" thing--they've been teaching us for years they'll do Y anyfuckingway.
    I agree overall - and I love the quote from someone else about the most well principled corpses. I've advocated for the Democrats to take the gloves off and stop playing by rules the GOP doesn't even recognize.

    However, in this case, ignoring a subpoena that's backed by SCOTUS just isn't a good idea at all. I'm not sure even the GOP would do it.

  15. #11315
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    I agree overall - and I love the quote from someone else about the most well principled corpses. I've advocated for the Democrats to take the gloves off and stop playing by rules the GOP doesn't even recognize.

    However, in this case, ignoring a subpoena that's backed by SCOTUS just isn't a good idea at all. I'm not sure even the GOP would do it.
    We can part ways on this one. I get where you're coming from, sincerely, but Hunter Biden having to testify would be an absolute travesty of justice. One more quote from that article:

    "We’re in the midst of a slow-motion unraveling of democracy in this country. If we don’t return the favor with some of this procedural war stuff, the only other option is to continue watching the other side do it. That’s not an acceptable option in my opinion."

    We're a bit ahead of ourselves here anyway, but in the context of Rand Paul threatening Republicans who would dare vote to call witnesses, which in theory I'm all for (by all means, make them take hard votes that make them more vulnerable), it may be all that's needed to nix any willingness to call witnesses at all, as intended.

  16. #11316
    The Lightbringer Clone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    I agree overall - and I love the quote from someone else about the most well principled corpses. I've advocated for the Democrats to take the gloves off and stop playing by rules the GOP doesn't even recognize.

    However, in this case, ignoring a subpoena that's backed by SCOTUS just isn't a good idea at all. I'm not sure even the GOP would do it.
    Yeah, I think they need to pick their battles.

  17. #11317
    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrt View Post
    Looks like Ukraine's going to open that investigation Trump wanted.

    Oh wait, never mind, they're investigating Trump's lackeys.
    The best response to that I read was on Reddit:

    Dumbass Dump: "I want an investigation in Ukrane that interferes with the 2020 Election!"

    Monkey's Paw finger curls

  18. #11318
    Ken Starr (Ken Starr) joins Trump's defense: https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/d...eachment-trial

    "Dershowitz, Starr Expected To Defend Trump In Impeachment Trial"

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Clone View Post
    Yeah, I think they need to pick their battles.
    Well hopefully they pick a single one soon, before they're gerrymandered / Supreme Courted / voter suppressed right out of any position of power to fight anything from.

  19. #11319
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Man, for nobody knowing who the heck Lev Parnas is, he sure finds a way to make it into a lot of photo-ops with Trump's inner circle!
    Yep. And he sure is CC'd on a lot of emails and texts from people in the administration.

  20. #11320
    Ive been thinking about something. If witnesses are made available and the republicans get the names they want. Could they not then convict but not remove if there was corruption by Biden to save face as yes he did something wrong but then turn around and say no removal because he did it for the good of the country?

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