Mega-Thread: Impeachment Proceedings & Inquiry of Trump

[Orbitus]

Are any Trump supporters in this forum REALLY okay with Trump and the GOP covering up evidence and denying witnesses?

They are cheering it on.

I guarantee you, that if Obama did this, they would have been calling for his head.

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Everything about this reply is pretty funny

Says the guy ignoring any and all evidence against Trump to do anything he can to support Trump.

[Fugus]

They don't care about their legacy. All they care about is judges. That's basically the only thing that get's voted on by the senate these days. That's how they stay in power and keep the system rigged by having judges in place to keep people from their voting rights.

And that can be completely undone the moment they lose power and honestly has a mandate to FORCE that done after what happened.

They can remove Kavanaugh easy if they wanted to just by getting him for perjury since the statute of limitations is 5 years on that and has prison time.


Really, I have posted it before by I would pass a law that the Supreme Court is no longer nominated by the president and no longer life time appointments but instead is rotated out from the lower courts every 6 to 12 months at random. No case that hits the docket while they are in session or has been selected can be seen by that set unless an emergency. If they clear their docket of their stuff, they can be rotated sooner and any case that runs after 12 months they can still finish in that capacity.

Then, I would make it where the State Courts are no longer presidential nominees or lifetime appointments and instead are nominated by the Senators of that state where both must agree and must pass a qualification check that is nonpartisan. They can only serve for 10 years in that capacity with no chance of re-nomination.

That right there undoes ALL of that within a decade at max.

And if they actually look into Trump and McConnell after they are out and find they lied or did some fucked up shit like help a foreign enemy for political power, that creates the potential to taint the nomination of every one of them as they were nominated and passed by people with a vested interest to help a foreign power over their own which allows them all to effectively be nullified.

Either way, that can be fixed and blown up with the level of fuckery they pulled.

[Thekri]

They are cheering it on.

I guarantee you, that if Obama did this, they would have been calling for his head.

Well that is a given, they did that for anything Obama did, much less something like this. Still, so far this isn't particularly shady or unprecedented, like many are claiming. Some points of clarification for the impeachment proceedings:

1) They are all public. This is a big deal, during the Clinton Impeachment, all the deliberating was in private, with no public access.

2) So far they haven't voted against having witnesses or evidence. They tabled it, not voted it down. This matches precedent in the Clinton trial, and also follows the timeline that was already set out. The idea is to get all the opening arguments done, get a clear picture of the two positions, and then determine if they need to bring in Witnesses and Evidence to support either position. What Schumer was doing today was essentially grandstanding, which was a smart move on his part, because it definitely looked good on television, but it wasn't really going to pass. They will likely have the actual vote on Witnesses and evidence next week.

3) As much as I hate it, this trial isn't really about the facts or evidence. The base facts are already pretty clearly established, the GOP just doesn't care. The entire trial is about optics and politics at this point. Both sides are really making a case to voters for 2020 here, and the positions of both sides clearly reflect that. It should be a trial for Donald Trump, but it isn't. It is a glorified political debate, with no real chance of any meaningful effects on this Administration (At least outside of the 2020 election).

[Zan15]

man I cant wait till someone I know ends up at a trial.

I will totally use the Trump/Moscow Mitch logic and tell the court there is no right or need to hear witnesses in a trial!!!!

I am sure it will work!

[Orbitus]

Fucking useless. Mulvaney isn't testifying. Fucking partisan hacks of the Republicans.

[Fugus]

Fucking useless. Mulvaney isn't testifying. Fucking partisan hacks of the Republicans.

Wait, it still going on?

Edit: Never mind, they shit is fucked up.

[Wermys]

I keep hearing people on news channels saying that people are going to be watching coverage all day. I assume they're primarily marketing themselves to the elderly since normal people of most ages are gainfully employed and don't actually have 9-5 free to watch their favorite political soap opera.

Yeah not like people can't listen to it on twitch/youtube/cellphone etc.

[Shadowferal]

The whole show goes well into the night.

[Fugus]

The whole show goes well into the night.

Hoping they keep this going into tomorrow and amend it all through midnight last night. If they want to avoid having evidence, let them stay up for 48 hours plus just to keep it.

[swiftowner]

I’m watching this now, how is someone allowed to blatantly lie like this in the senate impeachment trial??? Pat Cipillone is a tool. Most of everything he lied about is public information. He makes so many blatant lies and brings no substance to back up his claims.

[Fugus]

At this point, will they even all the evidence from the House? I they are denying all the other stuff, are they at least forced to admit the House stuff as evidence?

[Toppy]

I’m watching this now, how is someone allowed to blatantly lie like this in the senate impeachment trial??? Pat Cipillone is a tool. Most of everything he lied about is public information. He makes so many blatant lies and brings no substance to back up his claims.

A lot of the rules were put in place with the expectation that those involved would be well meaning and at least try their best to be morally upstanding.

This is something the GOP has been taking advantage of for some time. The system wasn't designed to handle large amounts of people telling falsehoods. The way the system is made, and this certainly wasn't intentional, an entire group can lie so long as enough of that group are willing to let them.

Even if its a bold faced 100% unquestionable lie, there's nothing in place to stop them outside of the honor system if there isnt a large majority there to say "Thats a fucking lie".

Mitch's opening statement to the entire trial was full of blatant falsehoods. But Schumer has no way at all to stop him other than just sighing and pointing out which ones are lies and hoping people will listen. Which is essentially what he did.

[Shadowferal]

STAY AWAKE! Senators struggle to stay focused on impeachment

One piece of good news for the attention-challenged: The Senate voted Tuesday to trade 12-hour days for 8-hour days when opening arguments begin. And both sides are using audiovisual aides to keep people awake. Lawyer Jay Sekulow did a bit of pointing and raising his voice at one point late in the proceedings, which seemed to perk people up.

But inside the crowded, tradition-bound chamber, senators have little to do besides take notes and listen. Phones and coffee are banned. So are talking and passing notes to each other. There's no pacing around the chamber. Snacks are traditionally frowned upon, though Sen. Ben Sasse, R-Neb., could be seen popping something into his mouth and chewing as he wrote on a notepad.

Senators in both parties paid close attention and took notes, highlighted papers and listened intently — at least at first.

One of the most prolific note-takers throughout the proceedings was Maine Sen. Susan Collins, a centrist in a tough reelection fight this year. Sen. Elizabeth Warren, one of four Democratic presidential candidates forced back to the Senate ahead of the Iowa caucuses, held both a blue pen and yellow pencil in her right hand and alternated which she used to take notes.

[Fugus]

Well, I am off. They are currently in a 5 minute break, I know how it is going to go when they get back at this point. The Republican party just proving more and more they are traitors to the nation and as shitty as the Democrats are, they are the closest thing the US has to adults in the room up there.

I truly hope they keep these amendments going for another 24 hours at least and force these fuckers to eat it on public TV for voting down every piece of objective legislation they are given. And hold them to the wall for this.

[Shadowferal]

Wait...no coffee? oh hell no!

[Fugus]

Wait...no coffee? oh hell no!

I hope he puts them through hell for it, keep them up till past dawn and hopefully midnight tomorrow night with amendments they know they SHOULD pass but refuse to. If they are going to cheat, make it hurt them physically as well as the next election.

[swiftowner]

A lot of the rules were put in place with the expectation that those involved would be well meaning and at least try their best to be morally upstanding.

This is something the GOP has been taking advantage of for some time. The system wasn't designed to handle large amounts of people telling falsehoods. The way the system is made, and this certainly wasn't intentional, an entire group can lie so long as enough of that group are willing to let them.

Even if its a bold faced 100% unquestionable lie, there's nothing in place to stop them outside of the honor system if there isnt a large majority there to say "Thats a fucking lie".

Mitch's opening statement to the entire trial was full of blatant falsehoods. But Schumer has no way at all to stop him other than just sighing and pointing out which ones are lies and hoping people will listen. Which is essentially what he did.

Seems like work needs to be done to force accountability for such ethics violations. It’s astounding how bad they are. My mind was blown when the White House council, Pat, claimed that the call had been declassified and released, then claimed that the Democrats provided a fake transcript of the call??? If that’s the case, then prove it mfucker, show us the proof. If it is declassified show us all the real transcript. What a fucking scumbag.

[Toppy]

Well, I am off. They are currently in a 5 minute break, I know how it is going to go when they get back at this point. The Republican party just proving more and more they are traitors to the nation and as shitty as the Democrats are, they are the closest thing the US has to adults in the room up there.

I truly hope they keep these amendments going for another 24 hours at least and force these fuckers to eat it on public TV for voting down every piece of objective legislation they are given. And hold them to the wall for this.

I see that a lot, comparisons of dems to republicans with a heavy dose of implied "JUST AS BAD".

But for a decade now at least the GOP has been just... awful. Unquestionably, horribly, full of lies awful. Dems can be bad, but making that comparison in the first place feels disginuine given the sheer scale of shit the GOP has been doing. Just the fundamental dismantling of rights, economy, and basic human decency thats been going on and just getting worse and worse and worse that they take part in. Its like watching a little kid hit their sibling with a stick, and then watching the sibling respond by curb stomping the other on a slab of concrete and going "Oh man, they're both pretty bad".

Tell, please, about all this shitty stuff the dems apparently do thats comparable to the mountain of nation killing bullshit the GOP has been doing.

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Seems like work needs to be done to force accountability for such ethics violations. It’s astounding how bad they are. My mind was blown when the White House council, Pat, claimed that the call had been declassified and released, then claimed that the Democrats provided a fake transcript of the call??? If that’s the case, then prove it mfucker, show is the proof. If it is declassified show us all the real transcript. What a fucking scumbag.

Dems have been trying for more accountability laws for some time.

Guess who keeps blocking that?
Hint, its the same people who keep deregulating industry so they too dont have to be beholden to standards.

[Fugus]

I see that a lot, comparisons of dems to republicans with a heavy dose of implied "JUST AS BAD".

But for a decade now at least the GOP has been just... awful. Unquestionably, horribly, full of lies awful. Dems can be bad, but making that comparison in the first place feels disginuine given the sheer scale of shit the GOP has been doing. Just the fundamental dismantling of rights, economy, and basic human decency thats been going on and just getting worse and worse and worse that they take part in. Its like watching a little kid hit their sibling with a stick, and then watching the sibling respond by curb stomping the other on a slab of concrete and going "Oh man, they're both pretty bad".

Tell, please, about all this shitty stuff the dems apparently do thats comparable to the mountain of nation killing bullshit the GOP has been doing.

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Dems have been trying for more accountability laws for some time.

Guess who keeps blocking that?
Hint, its the same people who keep deregulating industry so they too dont have to be beholden to standards.

Pretty much, as shitty as the Democrats are, they are saints by comparison.

[Toppy]

Pretty much, as shitty as the Democrats are, they are saints by comparison.

My point is framing the things you say with "As shitty as democrats are..." is the same sort of deflecting word usage that's constantly used to defend the GOP.

The bullshit "BOTH SIDES" rhetoric that's so very popular with fascist groups because its an incredibly efficient way to take attention off of the horrible shit their groups do. If you can't make yourself look good, you make your opponent similar, even if they are so many degrees different in such respects that the comparison is ludicrous.

Its your basic "If I can't win, I'll make them lose" that only benefits one side and does so very well.