Mega-Thread: Impeachment Proceedings & Inquiry of Trump

[Kaleredar]

The game plan was never to have Trump removed by congress. That, simply put, was not going to happen. The republicans are too deep in this. The impeachment proceedings were to 1) establish that Trump did break the law, 2) establish that the republicans don't care, 3) indelibly taint Trump's record with an impeachment asterisk, and 4) drag his name through the mud.

The game plan has been and will CONTINUE to be to oust him in November of 2020. That is the big picture here. The democrats need to stop quarreling and decide on a candidate, and then push that person for all they're worth whilst using the republican's utter subversion of justice as a weapon against them.

Impeachment was never the end of the path, it was merely one of the stepping stones in the process. The fight isn't lost, but it also isn't over.

[Dontrike]

And yet...he will still win reelection because the alternatives are senile old socialists.

As I've said before, it's not a morality or popularity contest. What a sad indictment of the current state of Democrats. "Not Trump" just isn't good enough.

So you're saying socialists, which only one can only possibly be described as, is somehow worse than a known criminal conman that peeps on little girls, wants to fuck his own daughter, has the IQ of a ham sandwich, and has tried to start multiple wars.

Do tell how any of that makes sense.

[Blur4stuff]

I honestly don't even know what these mindless socialism attacks are even referring to at this point. Republicans have made the mistake over the past 12 years screaming socialism and communism at anything and everything. It holds no weight at this point. They're just yelling into the wind.

By all means. If Sanders is the nominee just keep yelling about socialism without actually putting forth any solutions for the actual problems we face.

[Benggaul]

I honestly don't even know what these mindless socialism attacks are even referring to at this point. Republicans have made the mistake over the past 12 years screaming socialism and communism at anything and everything. It holds no weight at this point. They're just yelling into the wind.

By all means. If Sanders is the nominee just keep yelling about socialism without actually putting forth any solutions for the actual problems we face.

Well the problem there is that Sanders also isn't a socialist. He's a democratic socialist, which is not the same.

Also, they keep whining about socialism while at the same time benefiting from socialist policies (like the farm bailouts).

[Dontrike]

Yes, it was rushed and then they expected the Senate to do the rest of their homework.for them. Another example of Dems snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

You actually believe Republicans would have suddenly grown spines and gone against Trump and his base? You're funny.

[Flarelaine]

Strange take considering the 2018 results.

2018 still saw the Democrats lose two crucial Senate seats which are all that matter right now.

[beanman12345]

2018 still saw the Democrats lose two crucial Senate seats which are all that matter right now.

They could have lost a lot more considering how many were up for election. Heck the Montana Dem got re-elected and Montana went huge for trump. Only losing two is actually really good for Dems all things considered, how much worse it coulda been.

[Wyrt]

I honestly don't even know what these mindless socialism attacks are even referring to at this point. Republicans have made the mistake over the past 12 years screaming socialism and communism at anything and everything. It holds no weight at this point. They're just yelling into the wind.

By all means. If Sanders is the nominee just keep yelling about socialism without actually putting forth any solutions for the actual problems we face.

Propaganda doesn't need to make sense, it just needs to scare people.

Also, it's apparently backfiring with the younger generation because they keep seeing good policies like universal healthcare be called socialism so young people are starting to support socialism more(while still being as ignorant as the Republicans screeching about it).

It's not a recipe for good things, I know that. People really need to tone down the propaganda around those policies.

[Dontrike]

Exactly. I still don't understand why the house was lazy and didn't try to collect more information before sending it to the senate to have a more iron clad case instead of hoping the republican senate would actually do their job to research their boss.

How much more iron clad do you think it could have gotten? For that matter what makes you think that the people that always sides with Trump, no matter what he does, would change their minds?

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it IS good when politicians are shown for what they actually are.

And this showed what Trump actually is, fully corrupt, and yet you're okay with this kind of corruption. Nice back asswards logic and completely destroying your own.

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https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/31/polit...ial/index.html

so basically all of the supposed "moderate senators" say
we dont need witnesses because they think trumps guilty
New witnesses that would testify to the truth of the allegations are not needed for my threshold analysis, which already assumed that all the allegations made are true," Rubio wrote.
BUT..he shouldnt be removed from office.. such a weird out for them, basically admitting the dems are right but still voting to help the president in 2020

wow

The same man that knew how stupid Trump was/is and the same man Trump specifically insulted repeatedly. Every GOP that voted against witnesses are just Republicucks.

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there isn't, because it isn't doing anything to americans.

it's withholding some handouts for ukraine. money that should be in the US citizen's pocket instead. maybe if we quit paying for the rest of the world's problems, we could have some fucking healthcare.

You don't understand what allies are, do you?

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i don't at all care about what he did with ukraine, and i just won't ever care about it. i'd much rather people focus on the fact that we've upped the stakes yet again in the middle east, sent more soldiers to die for our greatest ally, and taken another step lengthening our 19-year middle eastern safari.

And this would have been the chance to get rid of the man fucking doing that, but I guess you don't care about that since you don't care about Ukraine. Seriously, does your logic ever end well?

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i wish i could take the time to explain to you exactly how humanity works, the truth of just how low the average person is. but i'm never allowed to defend my positions or explain them thoroughly, so i'll not be doing that.

You're allowed to defend your position all you want, but your position wasn't well to begin with and your defense has far less quality than that.

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Trump specifically - I think he is a boor and his hamfisted and shortsighted approach to various matters painted a giant target on his back which dogged his whole presidency and turned it into non-ending firefighting instead of doing actual useful work

You think that's the only reasons Trump doesn't get shit done? Perhaps it's because he's a lazy oaf with the intelligence of an empty crackerjack box.

[DarkTZeratul]

The democrats need to stop quarreling and decide on a candidate

That is literally what the primaries are for. It's honestly a bit ridiculous that everyone expects the DNC to settle on one person before the first vote is even cast.

[Inuyaki]

The game plan was never to have Trump removed by congress.

I agree with the rest of your post, but not so sure about that point.

I think many really thought there is a slight possibility to remove him. If they would have gotten witnesses and documents, the Bolton testimony and Parnas documents could have been devastating to Trump. Nixon had low impeachment support early, too... and once it got overwhelming Rs jumped ship.

I know, there is FoxNews now, but who knows...

[D Luniz]

I agree with the rest of your post, but not so sure about that point.

I think many really thought there is a slight possibility to remove him. If they would have gotten witnesses and documents, the Bolton testimony and Parnas documents could have been devastating to Trump. Nixon had low impeachment support early, too... and once it got overwhelming Rs jumped ship.

I know, there is FoxNews now, but who knows...

well, at the least, take soliace that there will be an unending drip from this leaking unchanged diaper of an admin, and the stink of that will cost the GOp votes up and down ballot

(but that doesnt mean stay home damnit)

[Smitzelplix]

Cool anecdotal evidence. And I'm a brown minority among many who have had no day-to-day issues since this admin took over.

See how that works?

Given that you lied for a long time about not being a Trump supporter, I wouldn't put it past you to be lying about being a brown minority. You have no credibility and should be taken seriously by no one. Everything you say should be taken with a grain of salt by those that interact with you.

[Huehuecoyotl]

Also, they keep whining about socialism while at the same time benefiting from socialist policies (like the farm bailouts).

The same people that say "fuck socialism" are the ones that go onto GoFundMe to try and pay medical bills. By having people work together to cover the costs.

They are quite happy to see socialism in various aspects of their lives. I can only assume that they're terrified of it being more organised and efficient, for some reason.

[Inuyaki]

They are quite happy to see socialism in various aspects of their lives. I can only assume that they're terrified of it being more organised and efficient, for some reason.

I can attest though that socialist policies are really stupid.
Take me for example. I am sitting here today at home, watching streams and stuff, getting ready for the football games starting soon... all is fine.
But on Monday I have to go to work again and I am not scared that I could lose everything if something bad happens or I get fired. Can you imagine that atrocity? Where is my freedom to be scared for my livelihood? The state is basically forcing me to live a carefree life...


Edit
I just realised we got a little bit off-topic, sorry... just wanted to point out how stupid that fear-mongering of the right is, forget which thread we are in

[Skroe]

I agree with the rest of your post, but not so sure about that point.

I think many really thought there is a slight possibility to remove him. If they would have gotten witnesses and documents, the Bolton testimony and Parnas documents could have been devastating to Trump. Nixon had low impeachment support early, too... and once it got overwhelming Rs jumped ship.

I know, there is FoxNews now, but who knows...

I don't think anyone actually expected it.

This has all been to damage Trump. We know what we're doing.

This entire sag will, in the end, have snared Trump from August 2019 until February 2020. Six glorious months where he couldn't do shit. That after six months where he was paralyzed by the outcome of the 2018 midterm. That after 18 months where he was ensnared from acting by the Muller investigation.

Now there just needs to be another trap laid for him to last from March until November that keeps him busy. I'm sure something will come up. It's Donald Trump. The man's had a big nothing-burger of a Presidency. He keeps giving opportunities to stop him.

Oh... and crucial feat accomplished: this impeachment interdicted Trump's 2020 campaign dirty trick to manufacture a "Crooked Biden" conspiracy. It disrupted it in the formative stage, debunked and discredited it. The lies will still work among the cult, but not among voters Democrats have to reach.

All in all, I'm quite pleased how things have gone down. We all knew the Republicans would compromise their patriotism, honor an integrity in this trial. They found the most destructive way to do so as well. There is no escaping these votes for these people. Because one day the bill will come due and they will all be confronted with it.

They will rue the day they did not sell out Trump when they had the chance.

That's why I've barely commented in this thread since the impeachment trial began this month. I didn't see the point of it. We did what we set out to do. We stood for the Constitution, democracy and the rule of law when Trumphadis did not. We proved ourselves the better principled Americans. We honored the founders. Now the important thing is to prepare to defeat him in the election, and then after that, start the federal criminal investigation by an attorney general and prosecutorial team willing to attempt to send an ex-President and his family to prison.

That is what Trump has unleashed. That's what he's normalized. And it will be weaponized against him and his family and his inner circle. And it could be 2020 where a democrat wins. Or 2024. Or 2028. But that day will come and all will be brought to justice.

[Draco-Onis]

I don't think anyone actually expected it.

This has all been to damage Trump. We know what we're doing.

This entire sag will, in the end, have snared Trump from August 2019 until February 2020. Six glorious months where he couldn't do shit. That after six months where he was paralyzed by the outcome of the 2018 midterm. That after 18 months where he was ensnared from acting by the Muller investigation.

Now there just needs to be another trap laid for him to last from March until November that keeps him busy. I'm sure something will come up. It's Donald Trump. The man's had a big nothing-burger of a Presidency. He keeps giving opportunities to stop him.

Oh... and crucial feat accomplished: this impeachment interdicted Trump's 2020 campaign dirty trick to manufacture a "Crooked Biden" conspiracy. It disrupted it in the formative stage, debunked and discredited it. The lies will still work among the cult, but not among voters Democrats have to reach.

All in all, I'm quite pleased how things have gone down. We all knew the Republicans would compromise their patriotism, honor an integrity in this trial. They found the most destructive way to do so as well. There is no escaping these votes for these people. Because one day the bill will come due and they will all be confronted with it.

They will rue the day they did not sell out Trump when they had the chance.

That's why I've barely commented in this thread since the impeachment trial began this month. I didn't see the point of it. We did what we set out to do. We stood for the Constitution, democracy and the rule of law when Trumphadis did not. We proved ourselves the better principled Americans. We honored the founders. Now the important thing is to prepare to defeat him in the election, and then after that, start the federal criminal investigation by an attorney general and prosecutorial team willing to attempt to send an ex-President and his family to prison.

That is what Trump has unleashed. That's what he's normalized. And it will be weaponized against him and his family and his inner circle. And it could be 2020 where a democrat wins. Or 2024. Or 2028. But that day will come and all will be brought to justice.

There are still a few problems coming along William Barr has openly stayed he will try to pull a Comey during the elections with his "investigations". Trump has cleansed the white house of anyone who could blow the whistle on him under the guise of "efficiency". This is going to be the ugliest, dirtiest election in the history of the US, I fully expect all of Trump's foreign buddies to put their fingers on the scale even Israel will jump in for Trump if Bibi is in the clear.

[Adam Jensen]

And yet...he will still win reelection because the alternatives are senile old socialists.

As I've said before, it's not a morality or popularity contest. What a sad indictment of the current state of Democrats. "Not Trump" just isn't good enough.

Ok boomer.

Some of us are sick and tired of the boring (and untrue) screech of "sOsHulIzM!!!!" Cold war is over, you can put your McCarthyist propaganda away.

[Daelak]

A more useful interpretation is that in the West, the left-right axis is more correctly the left-liberal/right-authoritarian axis. On the traditional graph, representatives fall on a line from bottom-left to top-right, more or less.

The communist regimes argued a left-authoritarian perspective against what they saw as right-liberalism. And that's the root of the conflict; not left vs right at all, but the conflict between different axes that those societies internalized. It's why people of either often talk past each other; they can't even agree on the end points of the axis they're discussing, so it's unsurprising that their arguments about each other make no sense.

And in particular with conservative views in the West, it was about two opposing authoritarian views; their right-wing authoritarianism as opposed to the Russian's left-wing authoritarianism. And, ironically, both preached against authoritarianism, while pushing it themselves, by framing the other as the "enemy" based on left/right economics.

Right-wing views don't have to be authoritarian, though the alternative is anarcho-capitalism, which just lets corporations run roughshod without much/any control, which means the corporations themselves often step up the authoritarian nature of society, since they have no interest in defending freedoms.

The paragraph in bold is the distinction that I was trying to convey; even the libertarian form of conservatism is just authoritarianism in another form, which will invariably create the same conditions conservatism try to make in the first place, but probably with less interest in religious adherence, however Saudi Arabia and Southern US "religious liberty" laws go against that theory.

Conservatism thrives in environments where it gets to disseminate false and misleading information. It's why Russian misinformation in the 2016 election was so effective; it essentially piggy-backed off the existing conservative conspiracy-theory-media-sphere to propagate the messaging to low information, rural, white voters in Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan, Ohio. The people that live there were already subject to dozens of conservative talk radio, and even their local news programming is conservative and locally-focused by design to keep them misinformed on facts of the presidential candidates.

But as this relates to the impeachment hearing, this is just one of dozens of inflection points in history that shows conservatism will always pull towards monarchism, dictatorial power on its own.

[Zan15]

The game plan has been and will CONTINUE to be to oust him in November of 2020. That is the big picture here. The democrats need to stop quarreling and decide on a candidate, and then push that person for all they're worth whilst using the republican's utter subversion of justice as a weapon against them.

.

Ya they should be more communist like the republicans who refuse to allow its people to choose a candidate and shut down any 2nd candidate to oppose trump!!

Whoot for no choice!