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  1. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by Dead Moose Fandango View Post
    That's just what happens when a rogue uses sinister strike. Didn't you know?
    Hey thats cheating, autoattacks only.

  2. #142
    Mak'gora without rules is a challenge from a non-leader to the leader in a fight to the death. The winner takes over leadership.

    Specific fight rules can be decided beforehand, but in 2 of the 3 instances of Mak'gora, they were both spontaneous.

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by ThrawnBladefist View Post
    I am going to bring this up since this apparently has and probably will not be addressed.

    So we have the fight with Saurfang Vs Sylvanas. Personally their is more wrong with that entire cinematic, but I want to focus on a particular point.

    In Orc culture and Horde tradition it is clearly stated you cannot under any circumstances use a magical weapon in a Makrok.

    Saurfang took a weapon which had magical powers coursing through it and used it against Sylvanas.
    Sylvanas used two daggers I guess you can call them.


    For all purposes, Sylvanas was 100% in the right to use magic then since Saurfang shows he clearly gives no shit about the rules himself.

    Not only is he a traitor, he is a hypocrite for using a dishonorable weapon in a honor duel.
    Is this meant to be a troll? It was easier to tell back on my day.

  4. #144
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    Judging by the smoke coming from the blades, Sylvanas also used magic weapons.

  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by ThrawnBladefist View Post
    I am going to bring this up since this apparently has and probably will not be addressed.

    So we have the fight with Saurfang Vs Sylvanas. Personally their is more wrong with that entire cinematic, but I want to focus on a particular point.

    In Orc culture and Horde tradition it is clearly stated you cannot under any circumstances use a magical weapon in a Makrok.

    Saurfang took a weapon which had magical powers coursing through it and used it against Sylvanas.
    Sylvanas used two daggers I guess you can call them.


    For all purposes, Sylvanas was 100% in the right to use magic then since Saurfang shows he clearly gives no shit about the rules himself.

    Not only is he a traitor, he is a hypocrite for using a dishonorable weapon in a honor duel.
    You can cry all you want in Sylvie's defense and call Saurfang a traitor. Sylvanas have proved she never truly cared about the Horde anyway so why bother defending her?

  6. #146
    Nobody broke any rules, there is no rule stating you can't use magic.

    There's no evidence to support this in the game's canon.

    And the one and only place it is brought up is in the movie which is noncanon.

  7. #147
    https://wowwiki.fandom.com/wiki/Mak%27gora
    1. no rule about magic or non magic
    2. Sylvanas' weapons were clearly magic
    3. Neither party disagreed on magic weapons

  8. #148
    https://wow.gamepedia.com/Mak%27gora

    "The rules of a Mak'gora seem to be different between each Mak'gora, since they are chosen and set by the participants themselves. Generally, there are thus no specific rules. The only consistent theme in all Mak'gora is that the pair must fight to the death or until submission.

    Magic, for example, has never been stated to be forbidden, and has, in fact, been used in multiple Mak'gora duels and thus seems to be permitted. Similarly, many Mak'gora duels have involved both fighters wearing body armor as well, but it can also be forbidden when explicitly required."
    Last edited by Shakana; 2019-09-25 at 07:37 PM.

  9. #149
    At this point mak'gora is a joke that has very little to do with orcish honor. If magic users are allowed to wield magic during duel then no powerless person will ever have a chance to win. It doesn't matter whether they are Garrosh, Saurfang or even Grommash.
    M-mom? M-m-mommy, p-please d-d-d-don't kill me. I-I rea-lly am not j-just a lump of cells. Pleasssse Mommy.

  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by Teph View Post
    The worse part is, that Saurfang took a weapon he has NEVER used before to a life and death duel. Also dualwield > 1 weapon obviously
    To be fair, Shalamayne is a pretty damn OP weapon in the first place and I'd expect a guy who has been warring for 40+ years, 20+ of these against humans, to know how a sword works even if he favors axes.

    @Rozz I fully agree. The concept of Saurfang forcing a public confession out of Sylvanas by backing her into a corner makes some sense in a comic book writing way, but the execution is lacking. I get the symbolism of the fight- Saurfang turned what should have been an easy victory for Sylvanas into a challenge while pushing her buttons and she then overreacts- but it is really weird that in the span of five minutes, Sylvanas goes from being in control of the situation with the Forsaken ready to die for her, to fleeing after giving a villainous monologue and the Forsaken kind of decide their cult-like devotion to her is just so passé now.

  11. #151
    Thrall didnt cheat though. In the original Mok'gora Thrall used elemental magic along with doomhammer which was allowed by garrosh, in the second mok'gora, which was a continuation of the first since it was interrupted by the scourge, Thrall's elemental magic would still be allowed. Mok'gora's rules are agreed upon by both parties and if one party doesnt agree then it doesnt happen that way.

  12. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by Fetus Rex View Post
    At this point mak'gora is a joke that has very little to do with orcish honor. If magic users are allowed to wield magic during duel then no powerless person will ever have a chance to win. It doesn't matter whether they are Garrosh, Saurfang or even Grommash.
    Saurfang was the one wanting it. He knew she would use magic weapons, he knew who she was, he chose the rules for their Mak'gora himself by deliberately defying her into it. It's not a joke, but it's a joke for Sylvanas because she doesn't even have "honor" that is suppose to mean for orcs when refusing Mak'gora. That's why she even said "why should i accept your challenge?" Because she claimed many times she doesn't have honor. And yet and once again, Saurfang tries to make her accept it.

    He chose his path and death. And died with his honor/dignity.

  13. #153
    Those slashes of darkness coming off her daggers and his wounds looked pretty magical from the get go to me. So if anything, he was just matching what she was doing.

  14. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by Shakana View Post
    Saurfang was the one wanting it. He knew she would use magic weapons, he knew who she was, he chose the rules for their Mak'gora himself by deliberately defying her into it. It's not a joke, but it's a joke for Sylvanas because she doesn't even have "honor" that is suppose to mean for orcs when refusing Mak'gora. That's why she even said "why should i accept your challenge?" Because she claimed many times she doesn't have honor. And yet and once again, Saurfang tries to make her accept it.

    He chose his path and death. And died with his honor/dignity.
    Mak'Gora is a joke because magic is allowed. In my opinion it invalidates coherency of Draenor clan's inner workings.
    M-mom? M-m-mommy, p-please d-d-d-don't kill me. I-I rea-lly am not j-just a lump of cells. Pleasssse Mommy.

  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by Fetus Rex View Post
    Mak'Gora is a joke because magic is allowed. In my opinion it invalidates coherency of Draenor clan's inner workings.
    Well, times changes, never in history too an undead would be a Warchief of the horde that is a banshee and it's capable of many things and being resurrected everytime and that everytime it comes to life she comes back more crazy than before. So there is that.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Not forgetting she holds Xal'atath

  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by Shakana View Post
    Well, times changes, never in history too an undead would be a Warchief of the horde that is a banshee and it's capable of many things and being resurrected everytime and that everytime it comes to life she comes back more crazy than before. So there is that.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Not forgetting she holds Xal'atath
    Whatever she is, the direction writers went with it is simply anti climatic. Mak'Gora was a simple test of martial skill, now it is all gone. Just another power level contest.
    M-mom? M-m-mommy, p-please d-d-d-don't kill me. I-I rea-lly am not j-just a lump of cells. Pleasssse Mommy.

  17. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by ThrawnBladefist View Post
    I am going to bring this up since this apparently has and probably will not be addressed.

    So we have the fight with Saurfang Vs Sylvanas. Personally their is more wrong with that entire cinematic, but I want to focus on a particular point.

    In Orc culture and Horde tradition it is clearly stated you cannot under any circumstances use a magical weapon in a Makrok.

    Saurfang took a weapon which had magical powers coursing through it and used it against Sylvanas.
    Sylvanas used two daggers I guess you can call them.


    For all purposes, Sylvanas was 100% in the right to use magic then since Saurfang shows he clearly gives no shit about the rules himself.

    Not only is he a traitor, he is a hypocrite for using a dishonorable weapon in a honor duel.
    what about the daggers and the purple glow everytime they landed a blow?

  18. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    Except for where it isn't, because as per A Good War Sylvanas realized Saurfang fucked up the plan and that she'll have to salvage it somehow before Delaryn even appeared on her radar as a thing that exists. Hell, even going by the earlier cinematic, the height of Sylvanas' emotion in her exchange with Delaryn was her making a smug smile. And even then her delivery that followed that smile was as aloof as the rest of her dialogue. Sylvanas only shows some irritation in that scene when she had to repeat herself to the Horde members that were focused in executing the earlier plan.
    Let's be real here. He just went fully edgy emo teen there.

  19. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by Fetus Rex View Post
    Whatever she is, the direction writers went with it is simply anti climatic. Mak'Gora was a simple test of martial skill, now it is all gone. Just another power level contest.
    If you ask me, i think Mak'gora shouldn't be done with Sylvanas at all. I think that was the biggest mistake. She wants death and she is challenged to a death contest that is simply impossible to a warrior, High Overlord win.

    They could either/Instead:
    1. Start with trying to attack. Sylvanas could indeed kill those many people, and raise the humans as forsaken. She could end up being heavily injured by anduin using his sword Shalamayne, he never fights tho, he is an aristocrat priest, but i wanted to see that the background promotion of Anduin and Sylvanas would turn out to be true. He is like there in silence, just goes with everyone everywhere and does nothing but looking and having a talk with Sylvanas that is more like a pep talk to her, as it gets her with the feeling that they are just so sad and pathetic.
    Then Sylvanas would walk away injured from Orgrimmar do the same speech she did after getting scratched and the horde and alliance would still try to make peace and be against her.
    2. All this but with Saurfang fighting still with Anduin's sword since he is a priest and all. And still die with honor. 6min battle could have been more than just pity talk and an avada kedavra in the end and a team rocket.

    If she died there, she has only one more Val'kyr left too. And what would be of her without more chances to be resurrected? She would just simply stop having her goals, as she doesn't know what she can do next. If she died once again, it's done. No more.

    But with Mak'gora no one can be inside the fights, so no one can oppose of fight along aside Sylvanas + her powerful power, it would destroy them too.
    I think that's why they choose the path of Mak'gora. She is suppose to have loads of followers, and Saurfang dismantled her in front of them all. Without anyone else being attacked and making them understand how she has other plans and even the undead are now probably really confused and hating her for saying that.

    Some of the undead accept their fate and serve the forsaken, others rebels to it, others kill themselves, many of the undead can't deal with being undeads, and then Sylvanas saying they are nothing, all new generation of undead and even the original ones feel they are already nothing, and that's why they even serve their Banshee Queen, that started vengeance against Arthas. And now she is too becoming one nihilistic b**** that don't seem to even care about her people's fate anymore.
    Last edited by Shakana; 2019-09-25 at 08:38 PM.

  20. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by mickybrighteyes View Post
    I'm still trying to understand why the emotionless and apathetic Banshee Queen is suddenly so hotheaded and off her rocker for these cinematics...

    that and how she won the duel and still had to leave for some reason?
    I believe she left after saying something along the lines of fuck the horde.

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