The Experience Which Every Expansion Has Lost.

[kail]

Had a similar experience in Tol' Barad. I don't see massive blobs v blobs entertaining though, didn't like GW2 WvW for the same reason. I personally can't wait for Arathi battleground to come into classic. A nice BG that enforces map awareness and group combat.

[Sencha]

Why does every thread in the classic sub-forum turns into a classic vs retail argument?

[Devilyaki]

broooo. either you didnt watch the video or you have some real thinking issues. This simply cannot happen in retail because we summon people btw.

Found me out, didn’t watch a second lol

[Doffen]

Are you kidding? Have you tried doing the Tarren mill vs southshore battleground? 1 FPS constantly even if i turn graphics down to 1.

Never had a problem with that. Or well, with my old pc I had issues even with 20+ raid. But not after I got the PC I got now.

Take my comment with a grain of salt though, it wasn't in all that seriousness. But it's one of the core aspect of vanilla wow..

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It’s pretty much the opposite for me. My alli toons get almost no input lag in any zone not including the very rare instance when horde is winning the battle for naz. While my horde toons have terrible lag in any KT zone and 1/3 of the horde zones, with especially bad input lag in naz every other day while alliance is raid camping the horde entrance to naz

It's pretty weird all these lag issues happening, it's way worse than Legion wich also had sharding, so I can't say what's the issue. But sharding is still a strong guess for the reason for any lagg issue in the outdoor zones in BfA. Not an expert though :P

[Madh4tter]

I should make a video about running to eternal palace with 30 people with no flying involved and wm enabled.

[horbindr]

The video posted is extremely specific to classic. You would never find any large scale guild world pvp like that in retail.

Then you can of course argue if it is fun or not. I personally dont find PvP like that fun since it is just a lagfest.

dunno. i've seen large scale pvp happen on retail too when there was a reason to. and these guys are not doing for the sake of pvp either, they are doing it to get to the instance entrance.

in retail the reason to do the large scale pvp ended after blizz hotfixed how lucrative the rewards were, now it's mostly down to 5 man groups doing pvp quests.

in classic the reason to do large scale pvp will end when the hype wears off, raiding goes to the status quo where people just log off their chars at the entrance, only small groups of people move together to the entrance, and the few stragglers get summoned. (not to mention, this stuff will die real quick on servers with a significant faction imbalance)

also important question: when phase 2 comes around, do you get the same honor if you are in a raid vs party? cause that's going to be a big deal for how much large scale pvp there will be then.

it's cool that this stuff happens, but for every " classic mentality" experience i've had on classic i've had 10 "retail mentality" experiences. so i don't think it's ever going to be particularly common.

[avitush]

That happened in retail? Link to video? The general consensus seems to be that retail has NO freaking open world PvP, because, well....flying mounts. There is no threat or danger if you can just happily fly away on a flying mount.

With or without flying mounts, the end result is the same if you're getting ganked/camped. You either fight the gankers off (alone or with friends you called in), go quest somewhere else, or switch to an alt. The most fun I had involving world PvP happened in BC and Wrath. Even gankers had an easier time starting shit with flying mounts. Find some area where lowbies need to do a quest, hover there on your flying mount, swoop down on unsuspecting lowbie. Also made it easier for me to hunt down gankers if I was on an alt and had to switch to my main (in situations where I otherwise would've said "fuck it, not worth going out there on my main").

World PvP did slow down in Cataclysm and beyond, yes, but I blame that more on the game's declining population after Wrath was over than I do on flying mounts (not as many people out in the world = less PvP). I see the "flying ruined world PvP" line tossed around a lot, but I really don't understand it.

[Cyrusx]

The raid leader is very skilled strategically. It's daft to compare this sort of world pvp to any sort of modern mythic raiding because it isn't scripted. High level pvp will always be a lot more strategically demanding than raiding for this reason.

[Methodd]

Why does every thread in the classic sub-forum turns into a classic vs retail argument?

It's the same handful of jealous idiots who spend more time on this forum attacking classic than actually playing the game. Just ignore them.

With or without flying mounts, the end result is the same if you're getting ganked/camped. You either fight the gankers off (alone or with friends you called in), go quest somewhere else, or switch to an alt. The most fun I had involving world PvP happened in BC and Wrath. Even gankers had an easier time starting shit with flying mounts. Find some area where lowbies need to do a quest, hover there on your flying mount, swoop down on unsuspecting lowbie. Also made it easier for me to hunt down gankers if I was on an alt and had to switch to my main (in situations where I otherwise would've said "fuck it, not worth going out there on my main").

World PvP did slow down in Cataclysm and beyond, yes, but I blame that more on the game's declining population after Wrath was over than I do on flying mounts (not as many people out in the world = less PvP). I see the "flying ruined world PvP" line tossed around a lot, but I really don't understand it.

Sharding really affected it too. On retail there was a 120 priest and hunter corpse camping my alt in Wetlands. Since there was no other alliance in the zone (it was empty besides me) I got on my main to go fight both of them...except my main was in a different shard. I couldn't even see my alt's corpse.

[d00mh4cker]

Isnt APES these homeless people from private servers? What did i miss?

[demonyaa]

There are so many sick on the fly plays in that video. Literally 200 IQ. I doubt most people in this thread have even the slightest clue what's actually going on.

You are damn right! This is an impressive display of skill, planning and tactical awareness.

It's really sad to see other people so many salty comments.

For the people that enjoyed the video and want to get a deeper understanding here is a fairly detailed account posted on reddit (I don't remember the user name so I cant give credit, but if you are reading this I gave you +1 on r/).



For the newer players out there, here is some context to this clip that makes it even more impressive:


- One of the Horde guilds in the start of the video appears to be <Dreamstate>, another hardcore private server guild with years of Vanilla experience. They've held speedrun records on pservers and have numerous R14 players and retail WoW Rank 1's on their roster. This isn't experienced players rolling over Vanilla newbies; it's skill vs. skill.

- The call at 01:53 to not use Goblin Sapper Charges is huge and the reason the rest of the video was able to work. Most other guilds/guild leaders would have called for Sapper Charges when approaching a mass of opposing faction members, resulting in a 5 minute cooldown of the item. The split second foresight to delay the charges and save them for the push into BRM is huge and shows discipline as well as tremendous trust in the guild's mages to AE the enemy down.

- at 03:56, the guild leader (Maitoz) calls for the raid to "bind light". What he is referring to is 'Light of Elune', a unique quest reward that makes the user immune to all damage and spells for 10 seconds. He makes the call for the raid to keybind their Light of Elune at this moment, knowing that without it, the raid would likely be wiped as their rogue spy called out at least 93 Horde in BRM.

- At 4:09, the rogue spy, Perplexity, communicates enemy movement precisely. He does so throughout the entire video, despite hunter flares presumably all around him in the mountain. How he stays undetected like that is nuts tbh.

- At 04:41, Maitoz asks "Are you sure it's 120?", referring to the amount of Horde in BRM. When Perplexity confirms, Maitoz calls for the Light of Elune/Sapper play, which means Light will be used at this moment (again, it is a unique quest reward and Alliance can only get 1 per character). He then says "Nifty", referring to Nifty Stopwatch, a level 40ish quest reward trinket from the Badlands that increases run speed by 40% for 10 seconds. Many people don't know this item even exists or don't understand it's importance in mass World PvP, but it is essential and is often paired up with Free Action Potions to reach an enemy's backline as quickly as possible. Good call that gets the raid to the Horde priests ASAP and gets rid of their dispelers/healers.

- At 05:40, Monkeynews and the rest of the raid use their Gnome Racial, Escape Artist, to break out of a huge frost nova that left them exposed. The play itself wasn't too notable, but the nearly raid-wide requirement of being a gnome is. Shows that the guild understands which races to pick for PvP in Classic and demonstrates their knowledge of the game. They almost all break out of that nova instantly.

- At 05:50, Maitoz decides not to go into MC and instead goes up the chain. This call is actually brilliant and showcases his experience. Most raid leaders would have taken the jump as a sign of victory and moved their raid towards Molten Core, leaving some of their straggler players behind and vulnerable. <APES> does not do this, but instead, Maitoz makes the call to go up the chain, giving the guild the high ground and the capability of a massive flank on enemy Horde who decide to jump down and chase. This is exactly what happens; the Horde jumps down to chase, Maitoz calls for his mages to flank them and jump down in the lava with the Frost Novas, and the Horde dies to lava damage. Actually 200 IQ on that play tbh.

- The fact that they did all of the above with less than 8 deaths in the main raid. Insanely impressive.


I'm sure there was more that I missed but god damn if this isn't a beautiful video. A nice crash course into BRM PvP and raid wiping. As a Horde player though, obligatory FUCK THE ALLIANCE for having access to Light of Elune.


Cheers, moo

[Lorgar Aurelian]

broooo. either you didnt watch the video or you have some real thinking issues. This simply cannot happen in retail because we summon people btw.

If you play with warmode on summoning isn’t always an option my guild more then once grouped at the flight point and attacked horde at the portal to uldir.

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The video posted is extremely specific to classic. You would never find any large scale guild world pvp like that in retail.

Then you can of course argue if it is fun or not. I personally dont find PvP like that fun since it is just a lagfest.

My guild had huge world PvP all the time in bfa it’s one of the main things they did as a guild.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

That happened in retail? Link to video? The general consensus seems to be that retail has NO freaking open world PvP, because, well....flying mounts. There is no threat or danger if you can just happily fly away on a flying mount.

No idea if stuff like this is happening since the cancer that is flying has been added but there has been no lack of PvP in bfa some one even had a thread on it with pics and what not.

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...after-19-hours!

[Heathy]

No idea if stuff like this is happening since the cancer that is flying has been added but there has been no lack of PvP in bfa some one even had a thread on it with pics and what not.

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...after-19-hours!

eh I don't think flying did much to world pvp, if ppl wanna pvp they'll land and pvp, in tbc you had the zone buffs that after a while i think ppl just didn't care about, although at least there was some sort of incentive to fight over some capturable thing that then provided a buff.

I think since perhaps mop there are two items in the game that can kill ppl with just fall damage, you don't need to use a single ability if you manage to get someone with these at the right time.. https://www.wowhead.com/search?q=hardened+shell

you have 10 ppl with the shell you can dismount 10 ppl flying etc.

[Sevarin]

Why does every thread in the classic sub-forum turns into a classic vs retail argument?

i assume it has something to do with the op comparing classic to every other expansion, including retail... at least for this particular thread. i cant really say about others. dont pay enough attention.

[toffmcsoft]

Why does every thread in the classic sub-forum turns into a classic vs retail argument?

Mostly because retail trolls come to the classic threads and bash the game...

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They abuse the fuck out of layering, for one. But there's no point in me going further because you think Classic is perfect and everyone who plays it does no wrong.

That's not an exploit as it's part of the game. Blame blizzard for introducing the mechanics...

[TheRevenantHero]

Mostly because retail trolls come to the classic threads and bash the game...

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That's not an exploit as it's part of the game. Blame blizzard for introducing the mechanics...

Wow. You really are going to say that it's not an exploit just to further defend Classic. You're just....really delusional.

[toffmcsoft]

Wow. You really are going to say that it's not an exploit just to further defend Classic. You're just....really delusional.

Please explain how jumping layers is an exploit.
Blizzard has even stated that it's an unfortunate part of layering but it's competently fine.

The only exploit was using layering in dungeons & raids in which players were banned for.

[Rendark]

Classic is dumb and i hope it fails.

[TheRevenantHero]

Please explain how jumping layers is an exploit.
Blizzard has even stated that it's an unfortunate part of layering but it's competently fine.

The only exploit was using layering in dungeons & raids in which players were banned for.

No. Blizzard did not say it was fine and specifically put a cooldown on jumping layers in order to stop people from abusing it.