N'zoth's gambit: unveiling Yogg-Saron's deceit?

[Paardenlul]

As many may have noticed N'zoth seems to have been going through great lengths to test us (CoS, Azshara, etc.), and creatures that may have easily been able to i.e. drown us didn't (on the other hand: it can be argued that in Vash'jir drowning the players did not sufficiently work to the naga's advantage...).

Additionally we know from Uldir that the titans classify N'zoth as the corruptor, C'thun as the chaos god and Yogg-Saron as the god of ... deception.

So here's the thing: what if Yogg-Saron was never defeated, but was just more subtle about getting us to free him? We all recall the shattered chains in Ulduar, but somehow he was not yet free yet.

In his fight he guides inside of him to show us visions (manipulating us?), only for us to defeat the visions after which we get to bash his "brain" in order to lower the shadow barrier protecting his "body".

Now the odd thing is this: his "brain" seems to be made of the same star stuff as his chains, same as Algalon.
And as N'zoth showed us all the fleshy bits are right and terrifying, but the "real" old gods are evidently far less physical.

So i'm thinking that neither the "brain" nor the "body" of Yogg-Saron were in fact definitive manifestations of the entity, rather the "brain" was the last piece of the titanic shackles that bound him, and the body was just the decoy; Yogg-Saron's real form was the nigh invulnerable shield.

And he's tainted or outright controlled literaly everything in Ulduar, giving us obviously tampered records that conveniently put us on the trail of N'zoth.

So what if he just engineered his own "death" in the background, hiding deception behind deception where nothing short of titanic or divine intervention might reveal his machinations? Or of course the intervention of recently released fellow old god.


"All eyes shall be open!"


And it has been mentioned before: The Black Empire shall rise again.
Strife between the old gods defined that era.

I for one hope we end up in an "alliance" of convenience with N'zoth against his much stronger brother, he is our true creator after all.

And this might also explain our mysterious green-tinted death magic death-god.





Disclaimer: i frequently lurk this place for shits and giggles as i have many time consuming health issues, but do not mean to add to the time loss by posting here frequently, hence the burner account.

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Also i may not reply here after a while because this account will be ditched eventually, apologies for the inconvenience.

So please discuss this with eachother, and keep it civil and constructive!

[fakaroonie]

I too believe Yogg-Saron is actually the one God of Death that Sylvanas serves, and Bwonsamdi as well. Everything is connected, the Saronite, Icecrown, it all makes sense.

[Aucald]

My theory has always been that the Old Gods aren't naturally organic beings - they were given organic form by their creators, the Void Lords, as a means to facilitate physical corruption of the worlds they landed on. Their forms as pestilential, cancerous biomasses are just a "gift" to help their true goal along: the infliction of a spiritual or essential malaise on the World-Soul inhabiting targeted worlds, as well as any biological entities residing on those worlds. Underneath their twisted flesh they're really just a seething mass of Void energies. When Aman'thul completely destroyed the form of Y'Shaarj by yanking it from the crust of Azeroth he destroyed the Old God's physical form, its vessel, but the Void energy that actually comprised Y'Shaarj's true self was more or less unharmed - it leeched back into the substance of Azeroth and became the force known as the Sha. I think the essence of a given Old God's personhood, it's personality or what have you, is part and parcel of its organic form - so the Sha entities are not themselves Y'Shaarj (though some essence of the original Y'Shaarj did remain with his recovered heart). I think the same thing has likely happened with C'Thun and Yogg-Saron, as well. We destroyed their vessels, but the essence within them was not dispersed, and now has gone elsewhere and is likely to manifest once more. I think it's likely N'Zoth has fed on its brothers' death, consuming the bulk of their energies and growing more powerful in turn. This is probably a natural aspect of the Old God's purpose, as well; as Xal'atath intimates they fought with one another to establish this sense of dominance, each one killing its peers and consuming their essence until only a single victor remained. N'Zoth, purportedly the weakest of its ilk, is the final Old God standing and may well have absorbed the power of its fellows into itself.

[Paardenlul]

I too believe Yogg-Saron is actually the one God of Death that Sylvanas serves, and Bwonsamdi as well. Everything is connected, the Saronite, Icecrown, it all makes sense.

I am not sure if she is aware that she serves him though, many of their agents are unaware to various degrees.

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My theory has always been that the Old Gods aren't naturally organic beings - they were given organic form by their creators, the Void Lords, as a means to facilitate physical corruption of the worlds they landed on. Their forms as pestilential, cancerous biomasses are just a "gift" to help their true goal along: the infliction of a spiritual or essential malaise on the World-Soul inhabiting targeted worlds, as well as any biological entities residing on those worlds. Underneath their twisted flesh they're really just a seething mass of Void energies. When Aman'thul completely destroyed the form of Y'Shaarj by yanking it from the crust of Azeroth he destroyed the Old God's physical form, its vessel, but the Void energy that actually comprised Y'Shaarj's true self was more or less unharmed - it leeched back into the substance of Azeroth and became the force known as the Sha. I think the essence of a given Old God's personhood, it's personality or what have you, is part and parcel of its organic form - so the Sha entities are not themselves Y'Shaarj (though some essence of the original Y'Shaarj did remain with his recovered heart). I think the same thing has likely happened with C'Thun and Yogg-Saron, as well. We destroyed their vessels, but the essence within them was not dispersed, and now has gone elsewhere and is likely to manifest once more. I think it's likely N'Zoth has fed on its brothers' death, consuming the bulk of their energies and growing more powerful in turn. This is probably a natural aspect of the Old God's purpose, as well; as Xal'atath intimates they fought with one another to establish this sense of dominance, each one killing its peers and consuming their essence until only a single victor remained. N'Zoth, purportedly the weakest of its ilk, is the final Old God standing and may well have absorbed the power of its fellows into itself.

I sort of agree, but i do not think they could absorb the ones that are not dead, and if Y'shaarj is any indication even dying does not allow their power to be consumed so easily. If it were that easy the Sha would not have existed, nor would the heart's energies.

I mostly agree in regards to their dual physical/void nature, but i suspect that their physical manifestations can be used to chain their energetic manifestations, hence explaining the need for such titanic chains and complexes. The complexes then would not serve so much as a prison for the body, as that they would be a means to turn their bodies into prisons for their essences.

[Aucald]

I sort of agree, but i do not think they could absorb the ones that are not dead, and if Y'shaarj is any indication even dying does not allow their power to be consumed so easily. If it were that easy the Sha would not have existed, nor would the heart's energies.

I mostly agree in regards to their dual physical/void nature, but i suspect that their physical manifestations can bevused to chain their energetic manifestations, hence explaining the need for such titanic chains and complexes. The complexes then would not serve so much as a prison for the body, as that it would be a means to turb their bodies into prisons for their essences.

I think the death of Y'Shaarj was somewhat unprecedented when it occurred, and the other Old Gods were a bit too taken aback and then a bit too busy dealing with the attacks of the Titan-forged to deal with Y'Shaarj's death as they normally would've. The Sha rose up because they weren't able to properly consume Y'Shaarj's energies over time, so the excess sort of manifested itself in new and different ways. I would agree with you about the substance of their imprisonment and the requirement that they be chained up in their physical forms. This may well be why they often seem to be exhorting us to kill them - in destroying their physical forms we are essentially slitting our own throats in slow motion, actively feeding these energies to the recumbent N'Zoth who was previously secreted away in the most hidden and inaccessible of the Titan prison complexes. This may well have been their plan all long, one hatched over the long eons of their imprisonment, where as opposed to infighting and struggling with one another they made an executive decision to exalt one of their number above the others and finally complete their "mission" from the Void Lords. This may also be why the Puzzle-Box of Yogg-Saron seems to speak well of N'Zoth - N'Zoth being the one chosen by the others to be fully realized and complete the job, so to speak.

[Paardenlul]

I think the death of Y'Shaarj was somewhat unprecedented when it occurred, and the other Old Gods were a bit too taken aback and then a bit too busy dealing with the attacks of the Titan-forged to deal with Y'Shaarj's death as they normally would've. The Sha rose up because they weren't able to properly consume Y'Shaarj's energies over time, so the excess sort of manifested itself in new and different ways. I would agree with you about the substance of their imprisonment and the requirement that they be chained up in their physical forms. This may well be why they often seem to be exhorting us to kill them - in destroying their physical forms we are essentially slitting our own throats in slow motion, actively feeding these energies to the recumbent N'Zoth who was previously secreted away in the most hidden and inaccessible of the Titan prison complexes. This may well have been their plan all long, one hatched over the long eons of their imprisonment, where as opposed to infighting and struggling with one another they made an executive decision to exalt one of their number above the others and finally complete their "mission" from the Void Lords. This may also be why the Puzzle-Box of Yogg-Saron seems to speak well of N'Zoth - N'Zoth being the one chosen by the others to be fully realized and complete the job, so to speak.

Perhaps, it sounds plausible.
On the other hand they have not been shown to act in true concert yet, so personally i think it's more plausible that multiple of them survived fully intact, perhaps even C'thun will resurge due to the presence of the sword of Sargeras and the endless pouring azerite.
This would open the way for a new Black Empire expansion where they consider us effectively defeated/try to wield us against each other.
They might also start sparring over Y'shaarj's leftover power. AND it would line up with the continued hostilities between i.e. the Kvaldir (Yogg-Saron) and the naga (N'zoth) we have seen in Cataclysm.

...Or Y'shaarj may actually return, "freed" from his last earthly shackles by Garrosh's consumption of his heart.

Either way i am looking forward to more old god lore ^^

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Alright my time's up, maybe some more interesting exchanges are to be had in this thread, but i will no longer be able to participate.

Have a good one!

[Powerogue]

"All eyes shall be open!"

But Yogg doesn't have eyes...

[Sanguinerd]

I very much hope for something like this, it definitely connects.

Only a month to go until we HOPEFULLY know.. to some degree.

[Chromell]

"All eyes shall be open!"

But Yogg doesn't have eyes...

Swap that with "All maws shall be open!"