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  1. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    Why does "death" have to have some absolute figure?
    because we need a new villain that isn't lame, meaning that don't get a sudden power up like sylvanas or helya or azshara or a lame return like the LK or the old god; establishing a new credible force maybe using a mix of western and eastern "hell" would bring a bit of fresh air and new stories.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UndedoKoleda View Post
    But, unlike the rest of them, the Lich King wasn't answering to higher authority. If Death had "a figure of absolute power" akin to the Void Lords or Sargeras, its safe to assume that the Lich King would be their rival or at least not a minion, meaning that in any scenario he wouldn't be a "general at best".
    or we never had that explained in detail, honestly speaking the old story of kil'jaden creating the LK sound really forced especially after legion, there is space for retconning the LK origin without making the character look dumb.
    Quote Originally Posted by caervek View Post
    Obviously this issue doesn't affect me however unlike some raiders I don't see the point in taking satisfaction in this injustice, it's wrong, just because it doesn't hurt me doesn't stop it being wrong, the player base should stand together when Blizzard do stupid shit like this not laugh at the ones being victimised.

  2. #222
    Quote Originally Posted by bufferunderrun View Post
    because we need a new villain that isn't lame, meaning that don't get a sudden power up like sylvanas or helya or azshara or a lame return like the LK or the old god; establishing a new credible force maybe using a mix of western and eastern "hell" would bring a bit of fresh air and new stories.

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    or we never had that explained in detail, honestly speaking the old story of kil'jaden creating the LK sound really forced especially after legion, there is space for retconning the LK origin without making the character look dumb.
    They could explain it as, Kil'jaden simply killed/tore Ner'zul soul out and trapped him in the armor/blade. Ner'zul being a strong shaman in life and a strong user of "spirit" became a strong user of "decay" magic in death. Slowly learned/powered up to necromancy and moving up the power chains from their by himself over time.
    "Maybe even gained/learned new abilities from tapping into the shadowlands ?"

  3. #223
    Quote Originally Posted by Jalham View Post
    They could explain it as, Kil'jaden simply killed/tore Ner'zul soul out and trapped him in the armor/blade. Ner'zul being a strong shaman in life and a strong user of "spirit" became a strong user of "decay" magic in death. Slowly learned/powered up to necromancy and moving up the power chains from their by himself over time.
    "Maybe even gained/learned new abilities from tapping into the shadowlands ?"
    It is foreshadowed that Frozen Throne itself is a key. Bwomsamdi in a quest where he sends you to meet Lich King mentions 2 important details:

    1) "Dat kind of power smells of old magic" (about what happened to Voljin)

    2) "Icecrown, it be more dan a pretty throne. It be an anchor dat holds dis world to da next, ya might say."

    First, if a magic is old to Bwomsamdi, then its really fucking old. And Lich King is basically the most recent thing there is. And yet he sends you to the Lich King as potential source of this "old magic"...

    Second is even more mysterious, yet - it was shown multiple times in the past that Frozen Throne is closely connected to Lich King's power. When the initial prison was broken by Eye of Sargeras, Lich King's power was dissipating, losing hold over many undead (thus, Forsaken) and slowly leading towards his complete destruction. It was also explicitly said that Lich King's power is the strongest near his throne. What's more, that's appearently the only place where he can be truly destroyed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    When an orc eats an orc, two orcs rip out of the orcs stomach, they eat each other and a brand new orc walks through the door, and then his chest explodes and 20 full grown orcs crawl out of his body. They then eat each other and the bodies until there are 3 orcs left. The mystery of the orc reproduction cycle.

  4. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by Rafoel View Post
    It is foreshadowed that Frozen Throne itself is a key. Bwomsamdi in a quest where he sends you to meet Lich King mentions 2 important details:

    1) "Dat kind of power smells of old magic" (about what happened to Voljin)

    2) "Icecrown, it be more dan a pretty throne. It be an anchor dat holds dis world to da next, ya might say."

    First, if a magic is old to Bwomsamdi, then its really fucking old. And Lich King is basically the most recent thing there is. And yet he sends you to the Lich King as potential source of this "old magic"...

    Second is even more mysterious, yet - it was shown multiple times in the past that Frozen Throne is closely connected to Lich King's power. When the initial prison was broken by Eye of Sargeras, Lich King's power was dissipating, losing hold over many undead (thus, Forsaken) and slowly leading towards his complete destruction. It was also explicitly said that Lich King's power is the strongest near his throne. What's more, that's appearently the only place where he can be truly destroyed.
    His throne has direct access to that source of power? The throne is built into/on a passage way to Shadowlands maybe ?? Or it contains a special items that has connection to it at least.

  5. #225
    I don't think Kil'jaeden put the icy throne made out of icy material from the Twisting Nether in the place atop icecrown glacier for no reason. He wanted to give the Lich King the best shot at controlling undead, so he put him in a place where he had a connection to the world of the living as well as the undead.
    And I do think the almost completely broken Ner'zhul being able to trick Kil'jaeden and the Nathrezim as easily as he did and plotting his escape from the get go, may mean he learned a few tricks from being placed exactly there. He was also used to talking to the spirits of the deceased, so while the place was really good for the Lich King because of its connection to the shadowlands it was also really advantageous for Ner'zhul to regain strength and learn new powers.

    Adding to this, I also don't think it was an accident that Yogg Saron was in that place either.^^

  6. #226
    Quote Originally Posted by Jalham View Post
    They could explain it as, Kil'jaden simply killed/tore Ner'zul soul out and trapped him in the armor/blade.
    that is what he did, yes. bound him in the helm of domination, probably using a fel-enhanced version of the augari's soulbinding(which seems to be void magic in WoD.)
    https://imgur.com/FX4poT6

    steve danuser - waifu cringelord

  7. #227
    Sylvanas THREATENS the balance of Life and Death as Bolvar stated it.
    Bolvar is probably more attuned to the Death entity than the other people.


  8. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by Piamonte View Post
    so the dream is created on azeroth, its called a dream because it comes from the dreams of a titan, the titans travel across theuniverse and it is never mentioned they (or their creations) made anything like this until they got to azeroth, every single piece of lore about the dream refers to azeroth and its been like that since wow vanilla and you are telling me somehow there is the possibilty that it also exists across the universe??i prefer to draw logical conclusions than to make wild guesses with nothing to support it.
    You're not drawing logical conclusions, though. You're taking wild guesses and speculation and treat them as fact just because they come from the Chronicle, despite the Chronicle itself naming them as suppositions.

  9. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    the evidence points to it existing through the universe though. the orcs worshipping goldrinn and the rift of aln bleeding into the twisting nether show it exists into other places.

    there's also nothing that says the titans didn't know about it. eyir is deeply attuned to life energy, she would likely know about it. but we don't know enough about any of them to say whether or not they knew of it.
    The rift of Aln is a gate connected to many dimensions, is not that the emerald dream is connected to outland, is that the Rift of Aln is connected to the twisting nether.

    I think the emerald dream is a pretty important part of the lore to simply not mention it, if in the future they go and say the emerald dream spans across the universe, it would feel like a plothole if the titans never showed signs of this being true.

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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    You're not drawing logical conclusions, though. You're taking wild guesses and speculation and treat them as fact just because they come from the Chronicle, despite the Chronicle itself naming them as suppositions.
    yet all those "suppositions" start with the notion that the dream is an azeroth thing, whether its Freya creating it or weaving it from Azeroth dreams, the fact that it resides on azeroth is implied in both statement, so the logical conclusion is that the Dream is an Azeroth thing.

  10. #230
    Herald of the Titans MrKnubbles's Avatar
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    I think necromancy would fall under Shadow magic.
    Check out my game, Craftsmith, on the Google Play Store!

  11. #231
    Quote Originally Posted by MrKnubbles View Post
    I think necromancy would fall under Shadow magic.
    It doesn't.

    https://wow.gamepedia.com/Magic#/med...icle_Magic.jpg <---

    Necromancy is under Death, Void is under shadow.

  12. #232
    Quote Originally Posted by Piamonte View Post
    yet all those "suppositions" start with the notion that the dream is an azeroth thing, whether its Freya creating it or weaving it from Azeroth dreams, the fact that it resides on azeroth is implied in both statement, so the logical conclusion is that the Dream is an Azeroth thing.
    Actually, Freya creating it would speak against that conclusion. If she can, so can others.

    That's leaving aside that it being limited to Azeroth is part of the speculation, and may be wrong as well. You cannot draw that conclusion logically from the information available. At most, you can conclude that everybody believes it is a local phenomenon.

  13. #233
    Think that lich king and others tapp into the shadowlands for power, bwonsamdi gets death pauwa from uber death, sylvanis has gotten also death pauwa but a different one from uber death.

    Regarding lich king and trost having their own domain, I think that uber death lets them have a small portion of the shadowland because why not, uber death rules death realm of the universe and if you rule everything you dont want to get involved in every single thing. But this changed with sylvanis getting pauwa

    Plus I dont think blizzard are going to try to use a very complicated story thats going to bite them in the ass.

  14. #234
    Guess Death God > Lich King is after all official

  15. #235
    Quote Originally Posted by Jalham View Post
    Guess Death God > Lich King is after all official
    As it should be the lich king was just a legion tool after all. Having him stick around after wotlk was weird to say the least.

    Hopefully the scourge splinters and creates several undead kingdoms.

  16. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    As it should be the lich king was just a legion tool after all. Having him stick around after wotlk was weird to say the least.

    Hopefully the scourge splinters and creates several undead kingdoms.
    Yeah, especially since the whole thing about "there must always be the Lich King" was always iffy. The Lich King gets blasted from another continent by Illidan? Half the Scourge breaks free and become the Forsaken. The Lich King gets stabbed with a holy sword on holy ground? The Ebon Blade breaks free. The Lich King flat out dies? Nah, the rest of the undead don't break free, they become An EvEn GrEaTeR tHrEaT. Makes sense.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Slant is an extremist, willing to sacrifice the lives of everyone to keep his wet dream of the EU alive.
    You shouldn't support people like him, it's like supporting ISIS.

  17. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    Yeah, especially since the whole thing about "there must always be the Lich King" was always iffy. The Lich King gets blasted from another continent by Illidan? Half the Scourge breaks free and become the Forsaken. The Lich King gets stabbed with a holy sword on holy ground? The Ebon Blade breaks free. The Lich King flat out dies? Nah, the rest of the undead don't break free, they become An EvEn GrEaTeR tHrEaT. Makes sense.
    Though I would have preferred literally any other character marching up there and beating the ever living daylights out of that human torch.

  18. #238
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    Though I would have preferred literally any other character marching up there and beating the ever living daylights out of that human torch.
    Even Me'dan? Alleria? Anduin?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Slant is an extremist, willing to sacrifice the lives of everyone to keep his wet dream of the EU alive.
    You shouldn't support people like him, it's like supporting ISIS.

  19. #239
    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    Even Me'dan? Alleria? Anduin?
    On my personal pole sylvanas has almost reached that level, so there wouldn't have been that much difference.

  20. #240
    Mechagnome Seiklis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    Yeah, especially since the whole thing about "there must always be the Lich King" was always iffy. The Lich King gets blasted from another continent by Illidan? Half the Scourge breaks free and become the Forsaken. The Lich King gets stabbed with a holy sword on holy ground? The Ebon Blade breaks free. The Lich King flat out dies? Nah, the rest of the undead don't break free, they become An EvEn GrEaTeR tHrEaT. Makes sense.

    In before Mueh'zala took the form of Terenas to set all this up

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