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  1. #401
    Quote Originally Posted by asil View Post
    I don't think the content in BFA is bad on a fundamental level, outside of them forgetting to add things back to the game (mat vendors, for example) the primary issue with the game is spec/talent design. Most of the specs in the game just feel bad to play, they just aren't fun. You can blame some of this on the GCD change (which to this day makes no coherent sense to me) but many specs have such little talent diversity you could remove most talents and it wouldn't matter even slightly. There are talents in the game that are so bad, they're a dps loss over taking no talent at all. People will play bad content if the specs are fun to play, but when the specs aren't fun to play then no matter how good your content is people are just going to stop.

    I really just don't get the mentality blizzard had going into BFA, they were repeatedly warned by people playing the beta that many specs just felt awful and kept insisting azerite was going to fix it, and that never materialized. And because blizzard doesn't like doing large reworks mid xpac, we're now left with a bunch of specs that likely won't be fixed or fun to play until next expansion, if they're ever fixed at all.

    The only solution I can see going forward is to roll back some of the massive redesigns they've done over the years and restore classes to what they used to be, and then tune the numbers. Because when we do lose azerite and essences, we're going to be left in the exact same situation we're in now, specs that feel incomplete and clunky to play.
    Class Design was always bad
    Quote Originally Posted by Boomzy
    People just want to be bullies without facing any sort of consequences or social fallout for being a bully. If you declare X as a racist/sexist/homophobic/etc. person you can say or do whatever you want to them, ignoring the fact that they are a human.

  2. #402
    Quote Originally Posted by asil View Post
    Blizzard themselves have admitted they messed up class design in BFA dude. You're completely ignoring the context here, they were told over and over again that specs felt bad on the beta and kept insisting azerite would fix it.

    Azerite failed to do so for most specs, the classes are too pruned, there's almost no talent diversity in the game. I've played this game since vanilla and it's hard to claim spec/class design hasn't been getting worse since at least MOP.
    No, i suggest o rewatch that video, they never said that.

  3. #403
    Quote Originally Posted by Dellis0991 View Post
    Hunters got butchered badly between wrath and Legion, they went from having ranged and melee in specs to losing melee in specs (not all specs) to melee in a one spec.....slots all fucked up throughout the years.

    Warlocks had some weird shit happen to them some of it was good then they butchered demonology to make way for demon hunters. Glyph of demon hunting got 86'd...not quite sure if people got real vocal about it but I remember some players raging over warlock specs quite a few times over the expansions.

    Shamans got tore the fuck up......enhancement and ele shamans went from hitting hard to hitting like wet noodles.
    You're all over the place here.

    What was taken away? Are you talking about specific abilities? The only abilities that were taken away from most classes, especially hunters, were those weird abilities people didn't use 99.99% of the time and that weren't even combat abilities. They took some melee abilities away but then later made a whole melee spec.

    Warlocks had meta taken away, but for a good reason, and the demonology spec was revamped to be much more interesting in my opinion. Many abilities, especially demon summons added.

    I don't get the complaint about shamans. I've played an enhancement shaman since Wrath and it was one of my two mains in BFA and I never had a problem. Even if their damage was a bit too low, which I did not notice, that's a balancing issue. Sometimes certain specs suck. Not everybody can shine all the time.

    I played like 9 or 10 out of 12 classes in BFA and I had fun with all of them. Again, I don't really get the complaint. What was taken away in BFA? Sure certain abilities were taken away over the years, some abilities were given to certain specs, some abilities came back etc. That is unavoidable. I don't see Blizzard butchering classes and specs. They are always trying to add, adjust and reinvent classes and specs and especially give every spec its own identity.
    Last edited by Super Black Man of Steal; 2019-10-05 at 01:58 AM.

  4. #404
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Black Man of Steal View Post
    -Snip-
    Artifact weapons were taken away
    Tier sets were taken away
    legiondaries were taken away.

    There's your big 3.

  5. #405
    Quote Originally Posted by Beefkow View Post
    Artifact weapons were taken away
    Tier sets were taken away
    legiondaries were taken away.

    There's your big 3.
    I thought we were talking about class and talent design?

    None of these things were taken away. Every artifact weapon, every tier set, every legendary you ever owned, you still own.

    Legendaries have their effects disabled upon hitting a certain level. Artifact weapons have their talent trees removed, but that was necessary going forward, and some talents were made baseline, because how else do you wanna do it? You still own the weapons and every transmog you unlocked. Tier sets still exist, just not one for every class, but one for every armor type. I wish they'd go back to class armor sets, and I think they eventually will, but that doesn't mean they took anything away from you.

    Do you have any serious argument to make or just this nonsense?

  6. #406
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Black Man of Steal View Post
    I thought we were talking about class and talent design?

    None of these things were taken away. Every artifact weapon, every tier set, every legendary you ever owned, you still own.

    Legendaries have their effects disabled upon hitting a certain level. Artifact weapons have their talent trees removed, but that was necessary going forward, and some talents were made baseline, because how else do you wanna do it? You still own the weapons and every transmog you unlocked. Tier sets still exist, just not one for every class, but one for every armor type. I wish they'd go back to class armor sets, and I think they eventually will, but that doesn't mean they took anything away from you.

    Do you have any serious argument to make or just this nonsense?
    Class design is amazing according to an alt master. Ion, is that you?
    *Insert every single ridiculous PC parts detail here that no one cares about*

  7. #407
    I am Murloc! Dellis0991's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Super Black Man of Steal View Post
    You're all over the place here.

    What was taken away? Are you talking about specific abilities? The only abilities that were taken away from most classes, especially hunters, were those weird abilities people didn't use 99.99% of the time and that weren't even combat abilities. They took some melee abilities away but then later made a whole melee spec.

    Warlocks had meta taken away, but for a good reason, and the demonology spec was revamped to be much more interesting in my opinion. Many abilities, especially demon summons added.

    I don't get the complaint about shamans. I've played an enhancement shaman since Wrath and it was one of my two mains in BFA and I never had a problem. Even if their damage was a bit too low, which I did not notice, that's a balancing issue. Sometimes certain specs suck. Not everybody can shine all the time.

    I played like 9 or 10 out of 12 classes in BFA and I had fun with all of them. Again, I don't really get the complaint. What was taken away in BFA? Sure certain abilities were taken away over the years, some abilities were given to certain specs, some abilities came back etc. That is unavoidable. I don't see Blizzard butchering classes and specs. They are always trying to add, adjust and reinvent classes and specs and especially give every spec its own identity.
    I was one of those weird people who kinda like those weird abilities lol but at the same time I love that they reduced the ridiculous button bloat of many classes.
    Last edited by Dellis0991; 2019-10-05 at 02:31 AM.

  8. #408
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Black Man of Steal View Post
    Do you have any serious argument to make or just this nonsense?
    All of those item effects affected your character greatly.

    By greatly, I mean't fixed your class.

    Now that they are gone, classes are a hallow shell of its former glory.

    Yes in reality they do still exist, but the effects are long gone. You can transmog your character with artifact weapons, woooow, I love fashion!

    Baseline spells were either removed or put into talents, How is that fun? How is that progression? How can you possibly think that's a good idea?

    You really think this is nonsense? Look again, and look harder, think from another person's prospective and not yours.

  9. #409
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    No, i suggest o rewatch that video, they never said that.
    This is a level of delusion I didn't even think was possible. They literally had to apply a bandaid fix in the form of essences mid xpac dude.

  10. #410
    I like every spec ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    - Bring back my damn zoom distance/MoP Portals - I read OP minimum, 1st page maximum-make wow alt friendly again -Please post constructively(topkek) -updated 2/8/2019

  11. #411
    The biggest mistake was introducing so many systems and abilities in Legion and then just removing them. In one stroke we lost our NLC effects (manageable) but also the activated Artifact ability, powerful Legendary effects and the variety of traits that came with it, some of which could be quite powerful and flavorful (like the Vampiric effect in BDK's ability). The only replacement we got at all was Azerite traits, some of which are interesting but overall they offer only a bit more than the Legendaries did if that, and just weren't enough. Essences helped a bit, but weren't class-specific.

    I like BfA's Warrior and Warlock, but everything else feels worse than in Legion, and because of WoD's own pruning most of these feel worse than MoP's as well. I pretty much only play my Warrior in BFA while I had an active alt stable in Legion and Mists.

    IMO next xpack Blizzard should return most of not all Legion activated abilities, add a talent row at 125 partially based on Legendaries, and carry on the Essence system at max level in a class (not spec)-specific way. That seems a good blueprint to me.

  12. #412
    Quote Originally Posted by Darien Stegosaur View Post
    Everyone who says this is being willfully ignorant, since Blizzard gave their reasoning for the change and it makes perfect sense.

    When you encounter a situation where there are two (or more) possible solutions, they want you to choose one or the other. If one or both of the solution spells are off GCD, making any choice is the wrong choice. The correct play is to cast both.

    As a personal example, I was literally the world number paladin for self healing on several fights in Legion. You want to know how I accomplished that? I wrote a 130 character macro that automatically cast Light of the Protector on my target if it was friendly, on myself if my target was unfriendly and had no target, and my target's target if the target was unfriendly and his target was friendly, then I added that line to every button in my rotation. Doing the spell on cooldown without checking whether or not it was necessary objective outperformed literally every human in the world.

    So many spells being off the GCD was bad. It was very exploitable and forced complex macros to be used.
    Yeah, except when my healing cooldowns are on the global cooldown..i have to plan ahead before i use a healing cooldown. and in PvP if I'm planning ahead to use a healing cooldown, i have enough time not to use it at all. So the end result is I end up not using my cooldowns because the extra global isn't worth 20% extra healing or what have you because someone will die in the next global or two.

    It leads to a much more offensive strategy where I preemptively use my cooldowns so we can focus on offense
    Quote Originally Posted by MasterHamster View Post
    Everything is artificially prolonging the game, it's called the game

  13. #413
    this thread is half people yelling "REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE I CANT RAPTOR STRIKE/WING CLIP EVEN THOUGH THERES NO DEADZONE ANYMORE REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE"
    and "REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE ARTIFACT ABILITIES REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE"

    Classic mmo-champ tbh

  14. #414
    Quote Originally Posted by rohoz View Post
    this thread is half people yelling "REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE I CANT RAPTOR STRIKE/WING CLIP EVEN THOUGH THERES NO DEADZONE ANYMORE REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE"
    and "REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE ARTIFACT ABILITIES REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE"

    Classic mmo-champ tbh
    Yeah, look at all these idiots discussing shit... on a discussion forum. Really butters my biscuits. Grinds my gears. Rustles the ol proverbial jimmies.

    ...

    Real high level observation there, bro.

  15. #415
    The Patient Ald's Avatar
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    The quest for the all-mighty balance is the problem.

    Players need to accept that some classes/specs are better than others for certain aspects and Blizzard needs to build content and encounters around that. Neither really seem to want to do that so here we are.

  16. #416
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    Yeah, look at all these idiots discussing shit... on a discussion forum. Really butters my biscuits. Grinds my gears. Rustle the ol proverbial jimmies.

    ...

    Real high level observation there, bro.
    I said yelling and you turned it into "discussing"

    Rofl, there are people literally unable to discuss because they lack the ability to process information. I said what i said, you *attempted* to change it to something you can jerk off of or whatever.

    Anyway, I reiterate. Full of loud knownothings just screaming into the void about things that they don't understand. That's not a discussion, that's a trump rally

  17. #417
    Quote Originally Posted by rohoz View Post
    I said yelling and you turned it into "discussing"

    Rofl, there are people literally unable to discuss because they lack the ability to process information. I said what i said, you *attempted* to change it to something you can jerk off of or whatever.

    Anyway, I reiterate. Full of loud knownothings just screaming into the void about things that they don't understand. That's not a discussion, that's a trump rally
    If you have nothing to contribute by being a smartass and looking down on others that lack knowledge or common sense or the ability to comprehend , please show yourself out the door.
    Last edited by Beefkow; 2019-10-05 at 04:26 AM.

  18. #418
    Quote Originally Posted by durenas View Post
    A lot of what you say is subjective opinion.
    No it’s not. Affliction has only one dps talent row with choice WA/AC/SL and Shadow only has two TF/Misery/DV, and AS/SC. Talent choices are very poorly balanced.

  19. #419
    Quote Originally Posted by Beefkow View Post
    If you have nothing to contribute by being a smartass and looking down on others that lack knowledge or common sense or the ability to comprehend , please show yourself out the door.
    You figure out what spells even scale with weapon damage yet or you still dunno anything you're arguing about?

    Hint: google is free.

  20. #420
    Quote Originally Posted by rohoz View Post
    You figure out what spells even scale with weapon damage yet or you still dunno anything you're arguing about?

    Hint: google is free.
    Nobody cares, move on.

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