Page 6 of 34 FirstFirst ...
4
5
6
7
8
16
... LastLast
  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Swnem View Post
    I don't agree with that. Why would a FROST mage need to cast arcane blast and fireball? Don't confuse simplefying the game with pruning. Pruning was mostly harmless and that is the nostalgia speaking. When they went full reset lets simplify classes in Legion was when s**t hit the fan.
    They already knew the spell so magically forgetting it is silly

    Also, the idea of specs is specializing in that tree but not limited to it. Example: a frost mage is an expert in frost spells and they do more dmg and cost less mana but they are still able to lob a fireball at greater mana costs and less damage if the time calls for it

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by asil View Post
    But it's not. By far the #1 complaint people in this game have is spec/talent design. I've never met a high-end raider in this game that thinks spec/class design issues have not been plaguing BFA since day 1.
    Yes it is. Just because you think a lot of people complaining about it makes it fact it does not.
    I am a high end raider and I think, for the most part, all the classes I play in BFA are much more fun than they were in the past.

    The only thing that is missing is the artifact and its frankly overpowered abilities, and by now I am happy about that.

    Class design is as good as it has ever been, and any "improvement" I would want would just be what I PERSONALLY want for the class.
    Likely something some one else wouldn't want, and something else people would complain about and make threads over.
    Most importantly, BALANCE is as good as its ever been, and I do believe this is the first time in a LONG time that tanks and healers all have been this closely balanced in all content.

    Either way, I do hope they are serious about reintroducing spells. As long as there is a precedent for spells having a lasting impact on the class, they should be returned.

    My biggest dream is that with Classic out they are beginning to realize why things like buffs and flavor like seals, auras etc are core to class "fantasy."

    But obviously, that is still just my opinion.
    Owner of ONEAzerothTV
    Tanking, Blood DK Mythic+ Pugging, Soloing and WoW Challenges alongside other discussions about all things in World of Warcraft
    ONEAzerothTV

  3. #103
    The Insane Aeula's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Nearby, preventing you from fast traveling.
    Posts
    17,415
    Eh, I'm enjoying classes right now. Some azerite traits definitely need to be made baseline though.

  4. #104
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
    7+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Land of moose and goose.
    Posts
    24,560
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaito92 View Post
    *game is not so bad as it was as launch where the team was figuring out mmos!*
    this defense says all
    I mean that’s not what I said and you’d have to be daft to think it is. All classes are functional the only point where they were not functional was in classic where some classes/specs just didn’t have the tools they needed to do the roles they were intended for.

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Hey There Guys its Metro View Post
    Yes it is. Just because you think a lot of people complaining about it makes it fact it does not.
    I am a high end raider and I think, for the most part, all the classes I play in BFA are much more fun than they were in the past.

    The only thing that is missing is the artifact and its frankly overpowered abilities, and by now I am happy about that.
    For simple curiosity, which class / spec do you use as main?

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    They already knew the spell so magically forgetting it is silly

    Also, the idea of specs is specializing in that tree but not limited to it. Example: a frost mage is an expert in frost spells and they do more dmg and cost less mana but they are still able to lob a fireball at greater mana costs and less damage if the time calls for it
    I know what you mean and how some think we should go back to just having 12 classes rather than 36 or whatever it is if you consider every spec to be a class of their own. But i do prefer to have all these 36 viable classes. I enjoy playing as a frost mage or fire mage or arcane mage and have each of the disciplines more fleshed out than a let's say... multi-art mage that doesn't go as deep on each discipline?

    It's up to the devs to figure out what they want to do. But we basically can't have both. I myself, like what we have now.
    Btw, i wouldn't look at it as the mages forgot the spells, cause they come back if you change spec. It's more putting it away cause it's not necessary and is just bloat on your bars.
    Last edited by Swnem; 2019-10-02 at 01:47 PM.

  7. #107
    You can hear this every single expansion since release. This has nothing to do with bfa at all. This is just people wanna have a chance of something new again.

    You should just start twinking and try out multiple other classes and you won't feel as bad going back to your main. But if you spend hours playing just one class it will become boring at some point.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Swnem View Post
    Let me tell you how.

    It's called Legion. They said... "shucks we are making new animations, lets just redo all of the classes while we are at it and make them "simpler" so more players play our game! We are Blizzard, they will eat that stuff up! Let's add these artifact things, they will make things spicy and they won't know what hit them! Let's also make talent trees all screwy and not bother to fix until the next xpac!".

    In BfA they went: "shucks this is too much for the kids. We are not seeing growth despite having simplified things. Obviously we need to double down! These artifact skills were just an expansion wide system so let's scrap that part, but let's keep the artifact grind! Let's get rid of Set bonuses too and make these sets that people can choose their bonuses, except the best ones will the random box rolls! As for the talent trees lets give them 3 choices that do the same in almost every row! That will make for varied choice and customization!" followed by "whoops, they look unhappy! I know! They liked that optional cosmetic thing about the previous artifact weapons, why don't we bring that back and instead make them mandatory power increases? Great idea!"
    I think you've been mislead by blizzards stated reasons behind changes vs the reality. Screwing up the games rpg mechanics started back in cats and it was never actually about players. Blizzard simply decided it wasn't worth the investment to correct and flesh out the talent system.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    Nah nah, see... I live by one simple creed: You might catch more flies with honey, but to catch honeys you gotta be fly.

  9. #109
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
    7+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Land of moose and goose.
    Posts
    24,560
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaito92 View Post
    Seems you are on the daft drain.


    Not only didnt anyone bring it up the functional point up beside you, this is not even true, making this even more hillarious.

    The devs did say multiple times over the years people should not play some specs because they were straight broken, like demo warlock a couple xpacks ago
    Did you really not read be post I quoted?

    Quote Originally Posted by Beefkow View Post
    Class design is nonfunctional in BFA, fact.
    I never said any thing about quality. Or how good or bad the specs are.

    And even in the past when some specs were broken like demo they still fulfilled there roles unlike being a tank with no taunt.

    So ya I guess your daft.

  10. #110
    Haste on gear doesn't help. Makes classes feel like shit for half of the expansion.

  11. #111
    Whatever happens in the future with classes I really hope they don't follow the vocal minority bandwagoning over how glorious MoP class design was, because it really wasn't.

    Legion specs were probably the funnest I played bar maybe Hunters, which I haven't enjoyed since maybe WotLK? BFA isn't exciting with Azerite abilities being game-wide instead of spec or class specific spells. Legion Windwalker was fun with the artifact ability, and I agree they should've kept more artifact abilities.

    Having every class and spec able to do everything like in MoP just makes everything even more homogenised. Classes shouldn't be able to do everything and I hope they don't cave to the clowns on MMOChamp and Reddit parroting each other.

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Detritivores View Post
    This is the most troubling. Current loot and class design is straight cancer, and they received that message in no uncertain terms. Their response was fuck you guys we do what we want go pay to play a 15 year old "classic" unfucked version of the game next year.
    With everything blizzard did...

    1. Players play more.
    2. Competitive PvE is played more then before.
    3. The whole interest for competitive PvE surprised everyone. MDI vs Arena, who'd have thought that scripted NPC encounter is watched by more people as Players vs Player.

    Everything Blizzard did with LEGION was hated, from the start till the end - AND STILL it was a success for the active players of the game.

    You can say what ever you want about Blizzard, WoW DEVs or CMs, but they seem to understand the game and how it affects player behavior much better as the average MMO-C forum troll.

    I honestly don't care what they change or bring as next feature, I still enjoy WoW and as a regular player I don't mind changes at all.

    But please dont idolize Classic that much. Classic is a great way out for players who can't make the BfA community requirements for anything above casual stuff and thats OK, since doing WorldQuest and LFR as the only thing in BfA might get boring over time.
    -

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Ange View Post
    With everything blizzard did...

    1. Players play more.
    2. Competitive PvE is played more then before.
    3. The whole interest for competitive PvE surprised everyone. MDI vs Arena, who'd have thought that scripted NPC encounter is watched by more people as Players vs Player.

    Everything Blizzard did with LEGION was hated, from the start till the end - AND STILL it was a success for the active players of the game.

    You can say what ever you want about Blizzard, WoW DEVs or CMs, but they seem to understand the game and how it affects player behavior much better as the average MMO-C forum troll.

    I honestly don't care what they change or bring as next feature, I still enjoy WoW and as a regular player I don't mind changes at all.

    But please dont idolize Classic that much. Classic is a great way out for players who can't make the BfA community requirements for anything above casual stuff and thats OK, since doing WorldQuest and LFR as the only thing in BfA might get boring over time.
    I mean following that train of logic, the most predatory loot box mechanics are also the most successful for example. They increase player engagement in the most insidious evil ways, but they increase it.

    Something being successful =/= something being good.

  14. #114
    Banned CrawlFromThePit's Avatar
    3+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Location
    The Depths Bellow
    Posts
    1,391
    Quote Originally Posted by asil View Post
    I don't think the content in BFA is bad on a fundamental level, outside of them forgetting to add things back to the game (mat vendors, for example) the primary issue with the game is spec/talent design. Most of the specs in the game just feel bad to play, they just aren't fun. You can blame some of this on the GCD change (which to this day makes no coherent sense to me) but many specs have such little talent diversity you could remove most talents and it wouldn't matter even slightly. There are talents in the game that are so bad, they're a dps loss over taking no talent at all. People will play bad content if the specs are fun to play, but when the specs aren't fun to play then no matter how good your content is people are just going to stop.

    I really just don't get the mentality blizzard had going into BFA, they were repeatedly warned by people playing the beta that many specs just felt awful and kept insisting azerite was going to fix it, and that never materialized. And because blizzard doesn't like doing large reworks mid xpac, we're now left with a bunch of specs that likely won't be fixed or fun to play until next expansion, if they're ever fixed at all.

    The only solution I can see going forward is to roll back some of the massive redesigns they've done over the years and restore classes to what they used to be, and then tune the numbers. Because when we do lose azerite and essences, we're going to be left in the exact same situation we're in now, specs that feel incomplete and clunky to play.
    I'm not a fan of BFA class design but like, seriously what talent is a straight up DPS loss? Sounds like bullshit to me. You're just whining about things that have been mentioned before, what are you trying to accomplish with this post? You just want social acceptance of your opinion? Blizzard is not reading this and even if they did they would just roll their eyes at yet again another whine post about the same old crap, with extra opinion and even less useful examples or solutions.

    Also assuming we're gonna just lose azerite and essences without gaining anything in another form, it's like you started playing yesterday, everyone knows there's gonna be some new stuff in the next xpack to have some kind of similar progression.

    You just need to take a walk, breathe in some fresh air to cool off all that anger.

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Swnem View Post
    I know what you mean and how some think we should go back to just having 12 classes rather than 36 or whatever it is if you consider every spec to be a class of their own. But i do prefer to have all these 36 viable classes. I enjoy playing as a frost mage or fire mage or arcane mage and have each of the disciplines more fleshed out than a let's say... multi-art mage that doesn't go as deep on each discipline?

    It's up to the devs to figure out what they want to do. But we basically can't have both. I myself, like what we have now.
    Btw, i wouldn't look at it as the mages forgot the spells, cause they come back if you change spec. It's more putting it away cause it's not necessary and is just bloat on your bars.
    Ok, so what about someone like my old demo lock? I loved Meta lock and i LOATHE the new demo lock. I absolutely hate the new design of it and hate that my toon MAGICALLY woke up one day and had forgotten meta to become headmaster at a school of imps

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by nRes View Post
    I mean following that train of logic, the most predatory loot box mechanics are also the most successful for example. They increase player engagement in the most insidious evil ways, but they increase it.

    Something being successful =/= something being good.
    You speaking of morally good? Who cares? Do you donate money to help children in africa?

  17. #117
    Blizzard didn't forget to add vendors back into the game, they simply refused to. They are committed to an outdated time synch business model and it's destroying the game. This is why off the charts RNG exists and why there is titan and war forging.

    As far as Class design goes, it's the worst it's ever been since Vanilla. Some specs aren't fun, others aren't viable and some just aren't in demand for one reason or another. These players who insist the class design issues are "subjective" are clueless. Do they play both Pvp and Pve? Do they play multiple classes even on a casual level? True, a handful of classes happen to be decent, they're not all bad, but generally speaking - yes the class design is utterly dreadful. If the classes as a whole happen to be in great place right now then why did Blizzard make a commitment to fix them.

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by Clozer View Post
    You speaking of morally good? Who cares? Do you donate money to help children in africa?
    No dawg. I mean a game can be trash and successful at the same time. And lately it feels like Blizzard are developing their games together with a team of psychologists to determine what's the most cost effective way to drip feed content and keep players engaged. Hence they came up with all kinds of weekly grinds to keep you hooked.

  19. #119
    Herald of the Titans
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    America
    Posts
    2,615
    Quote Originally Posted by durenas View Post
    A lot of what you say is a subjective opinion.
    Quote Originally Posted by asil View Post
    I've never met a high-end raider in this game that thinks spec/class design issues have not been plaguing BFA since day 1.
    As Durenas stated, this is your and high-end raiders' subjective opinion. I do not raid, though I have played every class through the BfA content. Some classes and specs are better than others. That said, this statement "People will play bad content if the specs are fun to play, but when the specs aren't fun to play then no matter how good your content is people are just going to stop." alone makes zero sense.

    If the content is bad or good, which is also subjective on what the player finds enjoyable or not to play, it is not going to be made better or worse base on talent and specs. The content itself either sucks or it doesn't and nothing is going to change to make the content better or worse. If you only play the game or class based on talents and specs, then I believe you miss the entire purpose of playing the game itself.

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Luxeley View Post
    Blizzard didn't forget to add vendors back into the game, they simply refused to. They are committed to an outdated time synch business model and it's destroying the game. This is why off the charts RNG exists and why there is titan and war forging.

    As far as Class design goes, it's the worst it's ever been since Vanilla. Some specs aren't fun, others aren't viable and some just aren't in demand for one reason or another. These players who insist the class design issues are "subjective" are clueless. Do they play both Pvp and Pve? Do they play multiple classes even on a casual level? True, a handful of classes happen to be decent, they're not all bad, but generally speaking - yes the class design is utterly dreadful. If the classes as a whole happen to be in great place right now then why did Blizzard make a commitment to fix them.
    Some people are getting way off topic and others are being plain disengenuous. Many of the class designs for BFA are objectively terrible, like armor only affecting physical damage and tanks having only active cooldowns to protect from magic, for instance. Or the fact that they talk about reducing stuns in pvp in every xpac but never touch rogues who are more and more op. I could go over specifics of each spec, have gone thru it all in detail since beta because i got all classes at max, but a few more general stuff that comes to mind:

    1) Blood dks doing only physical dmg is absurd. They were reduced to warriors with leech. In fact thats not exclusive to blood dks, the game has been watered down consistently and several abilities that should be magical now deal physical damage without it making sense, just to justify the change for armor which is itself absurd.

    2) Several specs (most notable example: vengeance dh) lost ao many abilities that they went from 6 buttons to press in legion to 3 in BFA. I like to mention DHs cus they always said they’d only give the class 2 specs to maintain variety and differentiation, and then gutted vengeance the second legion was over

    3) Abilities that are essential to several specs ate locked behind war mode as pvp talents, and in order for your class to feel even remotely right you are forced to enable it.

    4) Tank damage in general was brought down so much that they actually take MORE time to clear content solo and value versatility over their primary stat...never before have a secundary stat been more valuable than the primary!

    5) Melee dps feels like it doesnt belong in the game anymore. If you’re not a ret paladin, rogue or a havok dh, you have no place in pvp. You will get stunned and killed in seconds, ask any enh shaman, frost/unholy dk, survival hunter, fury warrior, anything that was made not to have great self heal. Dont ever spec a tank and try to pvp either, you will literally do 0 dmg and be blown up by a fire mage in 2 globals tops. Thats not to say all casters have it easy either, warlocks are insta trained as well.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •