has there ever been a more unconvincing moment to end the faction war

[Aucald]

I personally think the ending of the faction conflict has proved a bit anti-climactic, all in all. I expected something of a hard pivot before the expansion's end, bringing us into the next expansion by more or less resuming the status quo between the factions. I didn't expect the faction conflict to end as abruptly as it did in 8.2.5, however; or in the manner that it ended. I was expecting another Warfront-type scenario made from Thunder Bluff or Orgrimmar, with a denouement ending in seperate peace or detente of some kind. I can't say I'm not happy to have it over, though; but there's a lot that has thus far gone unaddressed and I worry that with the coming pivot it will fall by the wayside as the story changes gears. We'll see, however.

[Nerovar]

I was loling so hard at the wowhead article about the warcampaign final cinematic.

They literally told you what to think and how to feel about the whole thing.

That's just ridiculous. That just proves that they completely failed as storytellers. Spending a shitton of $$$ on cinematics and then having to TELL your audience how they should understand your story.

Can you give me link? That sounds funny as hell.

[Garymorilix]

Nah, I'd rather play a game that is actually decent without some "miracle ending" to save it from the garbage beginning and middle.

Yea, its like saying how much Legion sucked át 7.2 cuz it had no end.

Maybe Just Maybe, wait for the actual fckin ending before judging it? Its not hard.

[Mehrunes]

My story is the same because I still have the exact same book on my shelf which you stubbornly made me read well over a dozen times now to nitpick to death over details that have no impact on the story whatsoever or never existed in the first place. I have the exact order of events memorized.

Riiight Remember when you tried to push the idea that Elsie was killed immediately after sounding of the horn at first even though multiple things have happened between those two moments as seen from two different perspectives in two different chapters? I member (so top notch "memorizing of the exact order of events" you got here too).

Remember when you tried to push the idea that Sylvanas knew for a fact that some of the killed Desolate Council members were still loyal to her even though she says the complete opposite? I member.

Remember how just a few days ago you tried to pretend Elsie was unmasked by someone else even though she did the unmasking herself? I member (though I'm confused as to what you even tried to achieve with that falsehood).

Remember how at no point throughout the months of you peddling this blatant fanfiction have you offered any actual counterargument to Calia telling Elsie how everyone else was already defection? I member. I also member how most of the time you don't even address that tangent at all because it's too inconvenient.

Those are just some of the most glaring (or recent in the case of #3) examples of you making things up about the Gathering that's easily disproved by the book. Which obviously happened as I contest your fanfiction peddling each time. And would you look at that, you changed your tune on the first two of those afterwards. I don't think the word "same" means what you think it means.

Do you want pictures of the auctioneers who were out of their posts to go watch the fight, the large vacant areas of the city where there were previously guards, the defector who you personally have to fight and drag through the streets, or anything else from the loyalist campaign?

Do you want pictures of multiple characters talking about Sylvanas' superiority? And what are you trying to prove here? Conscription of people for a siege defense happens and is normal in such events. The people are already there, the siege disrupts their daily lives as it is so they can just as well help out with that. After which they may return to their normal duties. Now compare it to Alliance who was conscripting peasants for an offensive campaign already in 8.1. So even if there was parity between conscription of peasants for an offensive campaign and conscription of citizens of a city for its defense, where there isn't one, Alliance would still have resorted to that circa half a year (in-lore, rough estimate) earlier than the Horde.

The point of the story, obnoxious, pointless, and endlessly tedious nitpicking aside, is that both sides were depleted to a point where a head on confrontation would wreck them both and leave no army left to face N'zoth, which Saurfang managed to avert. Demonstrating, to even the most thick-skulled Sylvanas loyalists, that Saurfang cared about the Horde, and Sylvanas did not.

I'm sorry, where the hell does N'Zoth contribute to Saurfang's reasoning at any point in the expansion? Do you have anything to support that notion other than the buzzword bonanza here?

The quest where the nelves get back Darkshore is already completed and was as early as 8.1 PTR, it just needs to be put in the game. I don't see them not using it but hey, they could surprise me.

8.1 is ancient history in Blizzard time. They likely have forgotten about it.

[Powerogue]

You instead work backwards from a conclusion you've decided upon, that being that only a minority of the Horde supported Sylvanas before she flew off, which I'll give you is a necessary delusion to hold when arguing that this climax makes sense or that the Unifaction is a coherent piece of worldbuilding.

And you work backwards from "this whole story is shit, blizzard are stupid and never think through anything that they write despite having a dedicated team of writers who have been doing this for years" which is why we talk past each other.

Yes, I start from "What, based on what we're given in-game, is the implied total coherent story?" You, bafflingly, seem to think that is a problem.

-snip-

[Super Dickmann]

And you work backwards from "this whole story is shit, blizzard are stupid and never think through anything that they write despite having a dedicated team of writers who have been doing this for years" which is why we talk past each other.

Yes, I start from "What, based on what we're given in-game, is the implied total coherent story?" You, bafflingly, seem to think that is a problem.

Saying that Blizzard are hacks is hardly a revolutionary sentiment. Especially since I actually gave Blizzard credit in terms of markedly improving Saurfang in the patch he kicked the bucket, separating the loyalist and rebel stories into actual separate storylines, and providing the worm's eye perspective. That doesn't mean that any of the things I said are wrong, nor do we talk past each other - I addressed each of your claims and you, in so far as you had material, addressed mine, as has been the case when arguing BTS. It's just that the case I support has strong backing to it and yours doesn't.

In this case, if you are going to be carrying water for Blizzard it would behoove you to accept the exposition they're trying to cram as you seem to do unquestioningly on so topics that are far less cohesive.

[Fabled]

Ending of Mists. But then they had to give the reins to Sylvanas "I want to be immortal and the living can go fuck themselves" Windrunner.

[Highelf]

Wonder if the weak willed horde will play their victim card again and their genocide will get swept under the rug again...

[Mehrunes]

And you work backwards from "this whole story is shit, blizzard are stupid and never think through anything that they write despite having a dedicated team of writers who have been doing this for years" which is why we talk past each other.

Yes, I start from "What, based on what we're given in-game, is the implied total coherent story?" You, bafflingly, seem to think that is a problem.

Except for the part where @Super Dickmann's rebuttal to you here isn't actually built on Blizzard's writers being anything. It's, imagine that, built on other things we see in game. Things that you cherry-picked out as is your custom to build your own point.

On a side note, what is the fact that Blizzard has a dedicated team of writers that have been doing this for years supposed to disprove the notion that those writers are bad? Conflating time they spent working on the story with their skill is fallacious. Not that we have any data about turnover rate of employees in Blizzard's writing department for you to make that claim in the first place.

-snip-

Ahaha, this is just sad. How quaint that the things you got wrong while also building entire points about them are mere details and correcting you on that constitutes "nitpicking". How magically convenient to you.

Meanwhile in the real world I posted quotes from the book that disproved your entire narrative time and time again. That's not "nitpicking". That's sources. You sometimes used quotes too, but cherry-picked the hell out of them. The prime example being you cutting out half of what Sylvanas said about those who were returning almost every single time (and the only time when you didn't you twisted the first part of what she said into "Sylvanas knew for a fact that some of the returning Forsaken were loyal to her" even though it was the complete opposite of what she said). When I pointed that out and provided larger quotes to point out what you cherry-picked out that's still sourcing my claims and not "nitpicking".

And please do tell me more of this fascinating tale of how I'm objectively wrong when you make things up like "Elsie was killed immediately after the horn was sound" and I correct it with quotes from two different chapters so effectively you later change your tune (while somehow maintaining a coherent narrative based on you memorizing the order of events). Could it be that you don't understand what the phrase "objectively wrong" means?

A fun reminder here: the last time you tried to pretend you have a point in regards to me being "objectively wrong", you didn't even know what I was pointing out as incorrect in your argument and consequently your reply was about a completely different topic, which you eventually realized and admitted.

Hell, I even still have your PM about that:

-snip-

It gets bonus points for showing what constitutes an irrelevant detail to you. Never mind that that "just one word" turns Sylvanas' decision there in a completely different perspective. Never mind that your "more accurate paraphrased" is still false. After all, "the distinction didn't matter to you" so it magically becomes a detail and correcting you when you twist things so hard they turn into the complete opposite of what was said by the character magically becomes nitpicking.

Your charade of publicly putting me on ignore as if that magically validated you is nothing more than a smokescreen trying to pull wool over people's eyes in regards to the reality of you twisting the hell out of the book you totally memorized and you having no actual counterarguments when being called out on that. One of the oldest tricks in the fanfiction peddler playbook.

But hey, if you link Nobbel's video again I'm sure that will warp reality and make it so Calia wasn't the one to unmask herself and didn't tell Elsie that everyone other than her was already defecting.

Also, you putting me on ignore only makes me exposing your headcanon for what it is easier. If you won't reply to me after I show everyone else the quotes from BtS (or whatever else that you're twisting at any given time) to muddy the waters some more, all that's achieved here is just more clarity. So cheers.

Ending of Mists. But then they had to give the reins to Sylvanas "I want to be immortal and the living can go fuck themselves" Windrunner.

Curious, why do you think Mists was a more unconvincing end to the war? In MoP the factions still remembered that they had grievances against one another at the end, vide Varian's warning. In BfA we have a situation where most of the Horde starts the ending cinematic still loyal to Sylvanas, standing on the side of her war and end it with them turning to Anduin and forgetting all the bad blood with the Alliance because Sylvanas called them nothing.

[Fabled]

Curious, why do you think Mists was a more unconvincing end to the war? In MoP the factions still remembered that they had grievances against one another at the end, vide Varian's warning. In BfA we have a situation where most of the Horde starts the ending cinematic still loyal to Sylvanas, standing on the side of her war and end it with them turning to Anduin and forgetting all the bad blood with the Alliance because Sylvanas called them nothing.

I might be too tired and didn't get enough sleep to read the title/OP properly. Oops.

[Verdugo]

Yea, its like saying how much Legion sucked át 7.2 cuz it had no end.

Maybe Just Maybe, wait for the actual fckin ending before judging it? Its not hard.

No ending can save this tripe.

[Mehrunes]

The fuckin expansion is still not finished.

Can we have our doomsaying friends talk then? Anything can fckin happen.

I'll discuss this only after 8.3 is over. Until then, Just Keep playing.

Except this thread isn't about the expansion as a whole. It's about the faction war.

[Garymorilix]

Except this thread isn't about the expansion as a whole. It's about the faction war.

Except we haven't gotten the ending of the faction war, Sylvanas is out but we still don't know how certain aspects of the war come to an end.

Thrall saying something in Orgrimmar is not closure, cuz Thrall had jack shit to do with anything.

There can be a war aftermath subplot in 8.3 that closes things. Or maybe there isn't. But judging it right now means as much as describing colors to a blind man.

[Rozz]

You all need to settle down. Do not announce ignores or share private conversations. Stay civil and be constructive. Do not lash out, because of speculation or a difference in interpretation.

[Mehrunes]

Except we haven't gotten the ending of the faction war, Sylvanas is out but we still don't know how certain aspects of the war come to an end.

Thrall saying something in Orgrimmar is not closure, cuz Thrall had jack shit to do with anything.

There can be a war aftermath subplot in 8.3 that closes things. Or maybe there isn't. But judging it right now means as much as describing colors to a blind man.

Thrall wasn't the only thing. 8.2.5 was flat out called the end of the war campaign in the "what's new" part of the UI.

[Garymorilix]

Thrall wasn't the only thing. 8.2.5 was flat out called the end of the war campaign in the "what's new" part of the UI.

Yes it was. It's not the end of the story tho.

Or do you honestly feel like everything is sorted out? If your answer to that question is no, then you can expect closure in 8.3.

[Mehrunes]

Yes it was. It's not the end of the story tho.

Or do you honestly feel like everything is sorted out? If your answer to that question is no, then you can expect closure in 8.3.

In regards to the faction war story? Given how the factions are no longer at war and forgot all their grievances against the other one on the spot, pretty much. 9.3 is going to finish the story about N'Zoth, perhaps also Sylvanas' master plan.

[Garymorilix]

In regards to the faction war story? Given how the factions are no longer at war and forgot all their grievances against the other one on the spot, pretty much. 9.3 is going to finish the story about N'Zoth, perhaps also Sylvanas' master plan.

Oh yea?
What's with Tyrande?
What's with Talanji?
What's with Arathi and Darkshore?
What's with Gallywix?
Who leads the Horde? What even is the Horde now?
Who leads the Forsaken and Orcs?
What does "peace" even mean now between the factions?

And I guess I could think of many more regarding other characters or mission tables, but still, at least half of this needs to be addressed in 8.3 to get closure.
And even if it doesn't, complaining about it is only fair AFTER it all ended.

But I'm just repeating myself now, I can see you don't get it. But discussing the ending of a movie after only watching 80% of it is just nonsense to me.

[Eggroll]

Can you give me link? That sounds funny as hell.

Here you go:

https://de.wowhead.com/news=295302/s...lysis-spoilers

It's mindboggling...

[Evaddon]

Oh I don't think its over...or atleast it shouldn't be, not in the way we think atleast. To many outliers looming about plotting and scheming and they have noted this in game so I know they know its not a finite end result to every little thing that has happened!

But really I think the Faction War should've been the whole focus of this expansion rather then the B plot to us stumbling around ruining things for other people, and stumbling into unknown dangers. They should've really focused in on it, and then bleed it into another expansion that had to do with N'zoth and Azshara, and Old god stuff. But they took this expansion to put ideas out there, set up new themes and enemies, alluded to bigger ideals and entities which instead of focusing on a general narrative, hurt the overall narrative