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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by therealstegblob View Post
    Imagine being this jealous concerning a fucking WoW streamer lol.
    Not liking someone does not automatically equate to being jealous of them.
    You heard it first here.

  2. #22
    I tanked every dungeon up to 60 as arms (Emperor was really spooky at 55). I went fury/prot with shield at 60 but hated it because no Tactical Mastery, so now I'm fury/arms and it's working for every dungeon including UBRS.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Aizen244 View Post
    Threat is an issue, this isn't retail where you can aoe most packs and throw a taunt occasionally, tbh I feel I hold threat better when I go all out as dps. If I could at least use thunderclap in defensive....It's terrible lacking an aoe.
    Prot has threat talents that you can't overlook. Technically, you can tank fury through endgame IF you want healers that hate you and your life to be difficult, but prot at 50+ is ideal.

    A prot warrior will always outperform a fury warrior pound for pound in a tank position. Hell, i can even generate more rage and aggro as prot than fury... a GOOD prot warrior will outperform a GOOD fury warrior.

  4. #24
    Banned matheney2k's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    Prot has threat talents that you can't overlook. Technically, you can tank fury through endgame IF you want healers that hate you and your life to be difficult, but prot at 50+ is ideal.

    A prot warrior will always outperform a fury warrior pound for pound in a tank position. Hell, i can even generate more rage and aggro as prot than fury... a GOOD prot warrior will outperform a GOOD fury warrior.
    I mean it's not like there is really much else going on when every boss has 1-2 mechanics total. And as fury tank you are also able to be one of the top of dps meters while effectively tanking at the same time, which is really helpful of course. If you have capable healers and decent gear I don't see any reason to tank as prot instead of fury, it just seems better in every way.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    I mean it's not like there is really much else going on when every boss has 1-2 mechanics total. And as fury tank you are also able to be one of the top of dps meters while effectively tanking at the same time, which is really helpful of course. If you have capable healers and decent gear I don't see any reason to tank as prot instead of fury, it just seems better in every way.
    Because it's more stressful on the healers, and you are more likely to have aggro pulled without the tools to pull it back so easily. With prot, you effectively have 2 taunts and generate MUCH more threat.

    a GOOD prot warrior will outperform a GOOD fury warrior for tanking 100% of the time.

    Your job as a tank isn't to "top the meters" it's to take AS LITTLE damage as possible while holding threat. No healer likes a tank who takes a crap ton of damage, even if it's theoretically possible... i mean its possible for a shaman or rogue to tank too but you don't WANT it.

    I can't even count the healers who see i'm really prot and fall to their knees in joy at the site of it. If only i had a silver for every time i heard a healer complain about fury warriors... i'd have 3 epic mounts

  6. #26
    Banned matheney2k's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    Because it's more stressful on the healers, and you are more likely to have aggro pulled without the tools to pull it back so easily. With prot, you effectively have 2 taunts and generate MUCH more threat.

    a GOOD prot warrior will outperform a GOOD fury warrior for tanking 100% of the time.

    Your job as a tank isn't to "top the meters" it's to take AS LITTLE damage as possible while holding threat. No healer likes a tank who takes a crap ton of damage, even if it's theoretically possible... i mean its possible for a shaman or rogue to tank too but you don't WANT it.

    I can't even count the healers who see i'm really prot and fall to their knees in joy at the site of it. If only i had a silver for every time i heard a healer complain about fury warriors... i'd have 3 epic mounts
    Healers complaining that they have to heal. Go figure.

  7. #27
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    I mean, you're really dancing on the rng of just being two shotted. its like a rogue can tank perfectly fine with evasion, but not if the bosses rng rolls through that evasion and you get critted. a warrior has the armor to lower the hits but, with dungeon BiS you can't get def capped, you can maybe get to something like 402 defence, maybe 412 with a boe world drop. I still get critted wearing 395 defence, a fury warrior is gunna be soaking crits constantly. all it'll take is two lucky ones in a row and they ded.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    Healers complaining that they have to heal. Go figure.
    yeah, there's a difference in healing a tank and healing someone pretending to be a tank

  9. #29
    Everything depends on your healer.

    If your Healer is decent, you can do it all the way up to and including Strat,Scholo and LBRS / UBRS.
    There might be some bosses that require a Shield (Drakki, Baron, Krastinov, etc.) but most of the trash can be done without shield.

    It however also requires your remaining group to be remotely competent in those higher instances, no point if the healer has to empty their entire manapool into you while the rest of the party can't do dps even if their lives depend on it.

    Also a lot more difficult if no one knows how to interrupt.

  10. #30
    Banned matheney2k's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    yeah, there's a difference in healing a tank and healing someone pretending to be a tank
    I mean fair enough, but I'm still of the mindset that the game itself does not offer much in regards of mechanics or things to pay attention to, so as a healer main I would welcome the ''extra challenge'' so that it can go a lot faster and I get to actually get to do things

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Aizen244 View Post
    I'm tanking in fury spec with dual swords, I don't even use defensive stance or a shield, I managed to do a WC easily like this, it's faster and I don't think that tanking properly makes any difference, I barely tank tbh, I just dps. How far can I go like this? shall I try sfk or bfd like this?
    People are doing it in max level dungeons to speed up runs, low level dungeons don't even need a dedicated tank let alone a sword + board tank. If you're playing as Fury you will quickly reach the point where it's not really possible to hold agro against anyone unless you run a 2h or DW, what's more you can't get tactical mastery until level 45-50 meaning you're super limited with stance dancing.

    Just keep a sword + shield ready for when you're getting hammered and use a 2h or DW for the rest.
    I7 6700K : 16GB DDR4 3000 : GTX1070 : Firestudio : Naga : G27

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    I mean fair enough, but I'm still of the mindset that the game itself does not offer much in regards of mechanics or things to pay attention to, so as a healer main I would welcome the ''extra challenge'' so that it can go a lot faster and I get to actually get to do things
    All fun and games until the level 50+ bosses 1-2 shot the pretend tank and the healer gets blamed. Or when they can’t hold aggro on aoe packs and the healer is pulling their hair out in frustration

    Just because it’s feasible doesn’t mean it’s optimal

    A VW tank is more preferable for end game content than a fury tank

  13. #33
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    Quite a ways, entirely depends on the DPS and healers in your group though. Also depends on your gear level and what level of consumables you're willing to bring.

    Warriors behave strangely in vanilla and going protection spec early is probably a burden to your group. Low level dungeons can be tanked by anybody, and realistically you don't start 'needing' a tank until dungeons in the 30+ range. Even then, nearly all trash in Vanilla can be kited, and aside from bosses, tanks aren't really that important. If you gear entirely defensively you get nearly 0 rage and you can't realistically even play the game properly. This forces you to sit on purpose to get extra rage, and if you're doing that, you might as well just use a two hander or dual wield and forgo sitting altogether.

    The comments in this thread are all over the place though. With a pure DPS spec meaning arms with fury talents, or fury with arms talents you can pretty much tank any dungeon content in the game. You will however perform better if you hybridize those specs. What this means is doing something like 31/5/15 if you want to stick with arms (this is an all around good build for DPS, tanking, and PvP) or you can do a hybrid build where you go deep fury with loads of points into prot (I forget the talent breakdown but there are loads of flexible points and it's obvious which protection talents are worthwhile).

    Deep protection has it's place and it's really good threat when your gear levels are low. It's a myth however that you need to be deep protection to tank in Vanilla and a simple look at the protection talent tree, let alone how classes work in Vanilla will give you all the reasons why. There are no mitigation talents deep into the protection tree and everything that's useful for raid tanking is actually super accessible and available at the start of the tree. Unlike modern versions of the game where you pick a specialization and are essentially a new class entirely, Vanilla doesn't work like this and a warrior that's deep protection has nearly all of the tools that a warrior who is deep fury or arms has (sans a couple abilities).

    I'm sure people can go into more mathematical detail, but there are only several bosses in the game that truly do stupid amounts of damage to where you need to have a shield on 100% of the time. Fury/prot builds scale far better than deep protection (which scales poorly) in regards to threat, and you will do more damage as an individual as well. While the personal DPS is nice, your goal in Vanilla is to do two things. Live and produce threat to the point that your group isn't throttled completely, or at all. Once you have a threat lead you simply swap to a shield or you swap to one when you know a hard hitting ability is about to happen. Remember, that most of the dangerous abilities in Vanilla are elemental in nature (at least early), and whether you have a shield on or not makes zero difference.

    The chance to be critically hit isn't that high innately and there are few bosses to where that would even be a concern. If it's a boss that could two tap you in seconds, well, that's why you carry around a massive amount of gear to change your needs based on bosses. This is also a case of how you want to play the game. Is there any real reason to be mitigation focused when fighting Onyxia? No, her only real dangerous damage is her flame breath. Being full mitgation just slows down the encounter, and increases the chance that something bad might happen. On the flipside however, there's no 'rush' to kill the encounter either and you can absolutely kill the boss by having everybody wand or auto attack her to death as well.

    Again feel like people are comparing different things. At high level content having pure DPS builds tank obviously isn't optimal. The difference however between somebody having a deep fury build with all the good protection talents is minor, and these people still have the ability to throw a shield on once they establish threat.

  14. #34
    Recently healed Uldaman with 2 dps warriors and 2 rogues, as many have said the only issue is agro and the spread of dmg. If you're fury but go def stance and with shield it smooths all out

  15. #35
    The Patient
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    Gear and knowing your class are all that matters. I tanked lbrs as fury with a shadow priest healing. It's not optimal, and I used a shield for most of it but sometimes you gotta work with what you have.

    I didnt have issues tanking dungeons while leveling with a 2h until zf and that was because a lot of my gear had been out leveled. After a few drops it was fine. The main thing is keeping your healer happy. If dps keep pulling aggro and taking damage the healer is gonna go oom every fight.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    All fun and games until the level 50+ bosses 1-2 shot the pretend tank and the healer gets blamed.
    The only boss that even remotely comes close to doing this is Emperor with Ironfoe procs. Just your average plate wearing warrior will have 4k+ health, 5k when they're 60. I've tanked every dungeon boss as arms (pre-60) and fury with shield (at 60) and the hardest single crit I've received was 900 from Drakkisath. Protection is absolutely better for tanking but if you're going with friends, you can spec dps and add a bit of fun and risk with increased dps (and thus a faster dungeon clear) as reward.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by sibut View Post
    Some asshat streamer getting carried through content by his mouthbreathing fans isn't really indicative of any kind of norm.
    So you are saying it's even easier than we thought? Don't even need a tank if I understand you correctly. A bad is being carried by many worse and they have the top content so far on farm.

    "Take the time to sit down and talk with your adversaries. You will learn something, and they will learn something from you. When two enemies are talking, they are not fighting. It's when the talking ceases that the ground becomes fertile for violence. So keep the conversation going."
    ~ Daryl Davis

  18. #38
    IF you over level/gear the content you can do whatever you like. If your healer isn't oom and your dps are still able to get enough of a ceiling to do their job you can grab a couple daggers and pretend to be a rogue.


    This doesn't really change at any point in game unless your group stops being able to keep you alive and you on top of threat.

    Now if you don't have a full on healer who is simply some dude who happens to have a heal spell and a mana pool only slightly larger than the average warrior or rogue and less efficiency than a druid chain spamming moonfire... you THEN have the issue of possibly taking too much dmg to handle the event.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    Because it's more stressful on the healers, and you are more likely to have aggro pulled without the tools to pull it back so easily. With prot, you effectively have 2 taunts and generate MUCH more threat.

    a GOOD prot warrior will outperform a GOOD fury warrior for tanking 100% of the time.

    Your job as a tank isn't to "top the meters" it's to take AS LITTLE damage as possible while holding threat. No healer likes a tank who takes a crap ton of damage, even if it's theoretically possible... i mean its possible for a shaman or rogue to tank too but you don't WANT it.

    I can't even count the healers who see i'm really prot and fall to their knees in joy at the site of it. If only i had a silver for every time i heard a healer complain about fury warriors... i'd have 3 epic mounts
    I still have several levels to go before I hit max level, but I suspect you are right for Prot trumping Arms/Fury. I do more questing than dungeons, so I'm majoring in Arms spec, with a minor in Fury, but for my part, the dungeon pulls tend to go smoother when I switch to Defensive stance and go sword and board, even though my personal DPS takes a major hit.


    As far as holding threat goes, we don't really want to CC, so we punish our healer. Our lock tends to dot everything (often tanking most of it for at least a while), the mage has to jump into melee range (extra threat) to pop off a cone of cold, so I immediately don't have enough rage to tab target and hit everything. Then, even when I'm skullling our focus target everyone still tends to pick their own mob to blow up.

    So I normally charge --> TClap --> Def Stance --> get a couple shouts in. That's normally enough to keep the mobs off the healer. More and more I've stopped chasing mobs that are peeling off to DPS. I'll let them deal with them once they pull off me and will tab-target through the rest to try to keep them off the healer and to be able to hold them once the DPS have dealt with their peels.

    Thinking about switching to Deep Prot (31 points) once I hit 51, 'cause I have no idea how anyone tanks without Tactical Mastery, and Anger Management is also extremely helpful.
    Last edited by Ragedaug; 2019-10-06 at 02:21 PM.

    "Take the time to sit down and talk with your adversaries. You will learn something, and they will learn something from you. When two enemies are talking, they are not fighting. It's when the talking ceases that the ground becomes fertile for violence. So keep the conversation going."
    ~ Daryl Davis

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Ragedaug View Post
    I still have several levels to go before I hit max level, but I suspect you are right for Prot trumping Arms/Fury. I do more questing than dungeons, so I'm majoring in Arms spec, with a minor in Fury, but for my part, the dungeon pulls tend to go smoother when I switch to Defensive stance and go sword and board, even though my personal DPS takes a major hit.


    As far as holding threat goes, we don't really want to CC, so we punish our healer. Our lock tends to dot everything (often tanking most of it for at least a while), the mage has to jump into melee range (extra threat) to pop off a cone of cold, so I immediately don't have enough rage to tab target and hit everything. Then, even when I'm skullling our focus target everyone still tends to pick their own mob to blow up.

    So I normally charge --> TClap --> Def Stance --> get a couple shouts in. That's normally enough to keep the mobs off the healer. More and more I've stopped chasing mobs that are peeling off to DPS. I'll let them deal with them once they pull off me and will tab-target through the rest to try to keep them off the healer and to be able to hold them once the DPS have dealt with their peels.

    Thinking about switching to Deep Prot (31 points) once I hit 51, 'cause I have no idea how anyone tanks without Tactical Mastery, and Anger Management is also extremely helpful.
    there's nothing wrong with fury or arms tanking up until 50ish or so, then it starts to become kinda noticeable.

    My favorite prot tanking spec is 17/3/31. 17 into arms for Impale for more dmg and threat, 3 into increased crit %, and 31 into prot for shield slam. Charge, tclap, and demo shout are usually my lead off attacks. I understand those who wanna be niche and dual wield tank cuz it's cool and they saw youtubers doing it, but what they didn't see was the youtubers bringing more healers and the healers lamenting it and cussing about them in every backchannel. A prot warrior will always be easier and more loved by healers than fury tank. The goal for a tank is to soak damage, not dish it out

    Best of luck out there man!

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