A decent MMO plagued by some serious problems that make it unplayable in the long run

[Hyral]

I think anyone reasonable can agree that FFXIV has an issue with player retention. Most players are just there for the story and not the game itself. Sadly I don't see them being able to fix these issues without making a new game so I'll just play for the story and then unsub. It's no secret that that game is being held back by what it was built upon.

That's a loaded statement. The game has an issue with retention but the reasons are varied and the people who do stay aren't just there for story despite the game. One thing most people who do end up making it past the first hurdle of ARR mention is that gameplay does get better later on and that the class identity is just an absolute treat. Each class having their own UI elements and mechanics to watch out for, plus positionals for the melee that use them, does make the gameplay fun.

And that's not mentioning the environments, encounters, and music. Zones and instances are a complete visual and audio experience, then you have crafting and gathering offering a more complete experience for people who enjoy it and fishing basically being it's own game, and add to that the multiple FF references for the fans of the series, and there's many reasons people enjoy the game as a whole, not only the story. Unfortunately for people who cannot get past the initial hurdle or who are looking for a game that only focuses on combat like WoW they wouldn't be able to experience or appreciate any of that.

It's a different MMO for different people. It's ok to not like it but no need to pretend it has nothing to offer outside the things you particularly like.

If they ever do make another MMO I hope we get a different community too. FFXIV has the fakest community I've ever seen because you cant really do anything direct without getting reported. You're not getting rid of the toxicity you're just making people be passive aggressive instead. Novice Network is a good example of that because it's full of losers that wanted to have any bit of power over others they can get so they settle for being the moderation in a chat dedicated to new players. I'm sure there are some people that just want to help new players but they're vastly outnumbered by people that just want control over something.

Novice Network is Trade Chat but the trolls are the moderators. The place is a complete cesspool of a few mentors who bully and degrade everyone and threaten to kick and/or harass them if they speak up. It goes beyond the chat though, every mentor I've met maybe bar two have been the worst players I've seen in all of my years of playing MMOs, not just FF. The mentor system is a complete failure and would be best removed.

[Budong]

So I complete agree with the op.

1. I do feel like battle is clunky. If you say it isn't then you have not really played the game. I am more than ok with the number of abilities. But the way the mobs move, and such is an absolute mess. The latency, or the transfer of information mob moving to actual abilities is horrendous. If you have ever done a single dungeon, you know what I am talking about.

2. Duty finder does suck, but this is true in every MMO unless you are a tank or heal, so I don't think this game should be penalized for that solo point.

3. Crafting isn't complex or hard. Its not fun either, though people do it and can do it as a whole part of the game it isn't fun. EQ2 & Vanguard had similar systems, but again crafting is a chore. Sitting in one spot crafting for exp, gear, etc is never fun.

4. I too have skipped all cut scenes. I like the leveling aspect of the game, the alt jobs, even leveling crafting its all fun to me but thats because I like being max everything. To say my opinion on story or no story is not valid is an ignorant statement. Actually it should matter more, because you can complete the story quest never go back to it. Meanwhile all the other issues are still there.

5. Leveling a second job is a pain. I have almost all jobs at 80 including crafting and gathering. I can't say it was fun doing so but I did it because thats the type of person I am.

6. I think all of your opinions matter. But try to take an objective view at others opinions.

I completely disagree with all of your points but 6. Your other comments have been noted and rejected. Thank you.

[KrayZ33]

You're fooling only yourself if you're going to act like the Final Fantasy story isn't the biggest draw to the game for players. The game is being held back by what it was built upon. You can make a zone look pretty but when it's just full of generic mobs it's easily forgotten.

Look at what people talk about when the mention their favorite expansion. It's what story they loved the most. Look at what got Shadowbringers all the hype.

For most players it's the story that sells FFXIV. Because that's the one thing it does better than other MMOs that a lot of people care about. People that care about crafting are a minority.

I don't know about that. The story doesn't really sell anything because before I buy something, I know nothing about the story.

In my opinion it's the boss, music and dungeon/world design that sells this game.
It certainly is for me.

Then there is transmogs and housing. Limsa is basically proof that people don't actually play the game at all.
They sit there 24/7, never log out and just talk with people.
Lots of people doing lots of different things.

The storytelling and immense amount of time you spent doing story "missions" is just one aspect of it, like many others.
People talk about that because that's what expansions are about.
People talk about how bad the WoW story is all the time too. Does that mean they get drawn in to buy the game due to the story?

[zaino]

Hasn’t yoshi P literally said something along the lines of “it’s ok if you finish the story and go play something else for a while”?

I think they understand the player retention issue but if you look at SEs quarterly reports, they arnt hurting by any means.

[Hyral]

You're fooling only yourself if you're going to act like the Final Fantasy story isn't the biggest draw to the game for players. The game is being held back by what it was built upon. You can make a zone look pretty but when it's just full of generic mobs it's easily forgotten.

Look at what people talk about when the mention their favorite expansion. It's what story they loved the most. Look at what got Shadowbringers all the hype.

For most players it's the story that sells FFXIV. Because that's the one thing it does better than other MMOs that a lot of people care about. People that care about crafting are a minority.

It is the biggest draw. At no moment did we disagree on that. The part I quoted you were saying the only thing people care about is the story and nothing else about the game is good. That is clearly wrong. The story is great and there's plenty of people who get drawn by it and once they get past the initial hurdle also enjoy the other aspects of the game, including gameplay.

Again, just because the things I listed are of no interest to you doesn't mean they aren't interesting at all or to anyone else. It's a different game for people with a different taste than yours.

When people talk about WoW

I wouldn't recommend coming to FF expecting WoW. You are better off playing WoW instead. They look similar but are very different games.

[Thestrawman]

You've done nothing to prove otherwise other than say no. Also pretending that's why I brought up WoW is quite disingenuous.

FFXIV lives or dies by its story. If it ever had an expansion with a bad story it'd be disastrous for the game because that's the biggest selling point to getting people to sub again for each patch.

How many people actually level crafting? How many actually like PvP? How many raid? The answer to all these questions is a very small amount and it's no secret. People who sub for a month or two and leave until another patch comes out are there for the story. They didn't come back for the minor class tweaks.

You keep saying these things but you have no idea what you're talking about. You just don't like those things so they must be unpopular. Do you have any numbers? Any proof? Or are you just bitching to hear yourself bitch?

[Hyral]

You've done nothing to prove otherwise other than say no. Also pretending that's why I brought up WoW is quite disingenuous.

FFXIV lives or dies by its story. If it ever had an expansion with a bad story it'd be disastrous for the game because that's the biggest selling point to getting people to sub again for each patch.

How many people actually level crafting? How many actually like PvP? How many raid? The answer to all these questions is a very small amount and it's no secret. People who sub for a month or two and leave until another patch comes out are there for the story. They didn't come back for the minor class tweaks.

Stormblood.

Anyway, there's a reason why I quoted a specific part on my first post to you. Because of what you've said is right but I disagreed with that particular loaded statement. The story is a great part of the game, the main seller definitely, but you cannot say most are just there for the story only and they don't like the rest game. Besides, there's no way for you to even prove that, specially if you only sub for the story and then leave so you wouldn't be able to see the activity in game during periods there's no more story developments.

So I'll try to say again and very simple this time. The story is a big draw for the game, but that doesn't discard the rest of the game like you are implying.

[TigTone]

My main issue with FFXIV is the leveling.
It’s too damn slow outside first job.

[Thestrawman]

It may shock you but outside of one character people still liked Stormblood. People still liked Stormblood's story. That's like saying Shadowbringers has a terrible story because Ran'jit is just a copy of Zenos without the flair.

When everything discussed about FFXIV revolves around the story it's safe to say that it's the story that carries the game. If someone had to review FFXIV without considered its story it would be a mediocre at best MMO. PvP is awful to the point where even the fans make fun of it. The open world looks nice but is very uninspired when it comes to filling it. The raids are nice but definitely not on WoW's level. The crafting system does have a nice take on it but honestly it's boring as hell until you get to max level due to how fast you get xp for it now. The dungeons are okay but without a mythic+ system you're not going to feel that engaged in doing them over and over again.

Also no matter how much people want to pretend the combat is amazing it's really not. It's doing the best with what its got but it's still being held back. It's passable but it does get old especially when a lot of classes only get minor changes between expansions and only have one way to play them. Lack of talents really hurts there.



And here's an over defensive fanboy that I've come to expect from the FFXIV community. Look at everything talked about FFXIV and put two and two together. When a company advertises there game only talking about the story it's not because they just love the story so much. They know what the majority of their playerbase is there for and they advertise to appease them. Why do you think WoW advertises their raids and new catch up mechanics so much for their patches?

So I'm a fanboy because I called you out asking for any sort of proof to your bs bitching? And yet you failed to show any proof. How odd.

[minteK917]

My main issue with FFXIV is the leveling.
It’s too damn slow outside first job.

What first job is by far the longest. After your first with the armory buff i can do 1-80 in a week end. In like a week or two if i dont even try and just do two roullette every day.

[Poppincaps]

What first job is by far the longest. After your first with the armory buff i can do 1-80 in a week end. In like a week or two if i dont even try and just do two roullette every day.

No way in hell you get a character from 1-80 in 2 weeks doing just roulettes. At higher levels a Leveling Roulette gets you like 1/3rd of a level. If you wanted to level just doing 2 Roulettes it'd likely take you a month and a half to 2 months to get from 1-80.

I would actually agree that they need to do some kind of leveling revamp for FFXIV. Grinding PotD or the same dungeons over and over again gets real old, especially the more jobs you level. It takes far too much time considering how repetitive it is.

[lollerlaban]

See how these points contradict each other?
Tell that to all the guys who are having a blast crafting stuff in FFXIV. Especially when you "team craft" stuff.
Crafting *is* complex, I have no idea why you would say otherwise - whats your reference, what game do you compare it with?

It's properly integrated and intertwined with gatherer jobs and other crafting professions.
It requires theoretical knowledge about what you want to do and achieve, you have a proper progession system and you are able to see yourself advance into even more complex stuff.
Dunno, I'm not a big crafting fan myself, but FFXIV does have the best crafting I've seen - without a doubt.

Crafting is not complex. It used to be a team effort on finding the best combos for certain threshold, you know what it is now? Set your GP/CP/CS, insert food, copy paste the macro for full HQ.

[Sluvs]

IMO FFXIV is an amazing game missing a ton of simple things.

The story is simply the best the market has to offer. Period.

The fights are intense and the jobs feel incredibly varied. And the One character, all classes system is downright genius. Bluemage is an amazing questline too.

BUT

The minimaps are a mess.
The menus are cluttered to the point that I'm impressed by it.
The zones are boring. At best.
The dungeons are... fine.
Monster design is quite standard and generic. Or over designed.
PvP is a joke.

Overall I love the game, but I don't see a lot of the flaws the OP mentions that much.

[KrayZ33]

Crafting is not complex. It used to be a team effort on finding the best combos for certain threshold, you know what it is now? Set your GP/CP/CS, insert food, copy paste the macro for full HQ.

Just because it has been optimized by now, guides, third party tools and sites exist doesn't mean it's any less complex.

It's not about pressing the button.

[lollerlaban]

Just because it has been optimized by now, guides, third party tools and sites exist doesn't mean it's any less complex.

It's not about pressing the button.

It was so convoluted before that they had to prune abilities. Just because a system has 30 buttons where 15 of them does the same doesn't mean the system is complex

[KrayZ33]

It was so convoluted before that they had to prune abilities. Just because a system has 30 buttons where 15 of them does the same doesn't mean the system is complex

again: "It's not about pressing the button"

I already mentioned what makes the whole system "complex" or way more complex than in other games.

[Rogalicus]

or way more complex than in other games.

It's not.
/10chars

[KrayZ33]

It's not.
/10chars

...

How about you don't just delete half of the sentence while trying to sound smart.
Both FFXIV and EQ2 are often toe to toe when random communities vote for which game has a great crafting system. Maybe due to the fact that many of them don't know much about EQ2, but still one of the top contenders basically every time.
I never excluded the possibilty that other games have complex crafting too.

Again, there is no reason to deny the complexity.
As mentioned before, crafter/gatherer jobs are properly intertwined with each, there is a clear and well done structure behind it and it's always relevant and updated regulary with new "tiers"/things. It includes lots of transmog options too, involves the player in the whole process (both pre- and post craft) and I know way more people who enjoy FFXIV crafting compared to people I know that can say anything nice about WoWs system for example despite the fact that the latter sample size is several times larger (and I'll name WoW specifically because it's after all the giant in the market). I'd personally put it over games such as GW2, SWOTOR, TERA, and other recent MMOs I can think of too due to all that.

[Rogalicus]

...

How about you don't just delete half of the sentence while trying to sound smart.
Both FFXIV and EQ2 are often toe to toe when random communities vote for which game has a great crafting system. Maybe due to the fact that many of them don't know much about EQ2, but still one of the top contenders basically every time.
I never excluded the possibilty that other games have complex crafting too.

Again, there is no reason to deny the complexity.
As mentioned before, crafter/gatherer jobs are properly intertwined with each, there is a clear and well done structure behind it and it's always relevant and updated regulary with new "tiers"/things. It includes lots of transmog options too, involves the player in the whole process (both pre- and post craft) and I know way more people who enjoy FFXIV crafting compared to people I know that can say anything nice about WoWs system for example despite the fact that the latter sample size is several times larger (and I'll name WoW specifically because it's after all the giant in the market). I'd personally put it over games such as GW2, SWOTOR, TERA, and other recent MMOs I can think of too due to all that.

I think we've already had this discussion. For me complexity means that there's decision making involved because there's nothing complex about something with clear solution. Unfortunately, staticness of almost every aspect of FFXIV means that there's absolutely no complexity in the game, just memory training. That's also true for crafting which devolves into hitting stat threshold and clicking macro, which makes it WoW crafting with gear grind. Add to that lack of proper QoL many other games have: special segment for crafting materials in bank that allows you to drop them in one hit, clearer purpose descriptions for material (namely, crafting discipline and appropriate level), way to check in which known recipes material is involved, way to check AH prices and so on. That all comes to one conclusion: FFXIV crafting brings absolutely nothing interesting and at the same moment is one of the most annoying systems in MMO.

[minteK917]

No way in hell you get a character from 1-80 in 2 weeks doing just roulettes. At higher levels a Leveling Roulette gets you like 1/3rd of a level. If you wanted to level just doing 2 Roulettes it'd likely take you a month and a half to 2 months to get from 1-80.

I would actually agree that they need to do some kind of leveling revamp for FFXIV. Grinding PotD or the same dungeons over and over again gets real old, especially the more jobs you level. It takes far too much time considering how repetitive it is.

I do its called msq and pvp roullette. Considering i have almost all jobs at 80, i know how to get my xp lol. MSQ and PVP roullette last night for example was half of 78-79 and 79-80 on my dragoon. Consider this, in this game you dont need alts to try anything. Once something is leveled, its leveled forever anyway. Its even easier to get to the new content on your "new" jobs. I havent played wow in a while, they probably made it faster to level alts, but the thing is once your so called alt get anywhere its weeks of farming to even get to the point where you can realisticly do anything decent and sometimes its still feelsbad because they added their stupid infinite xp carrot chasing.