A decent MMO plagued by some serious problems that make it unplayable in the long run

[andrewjoy]

1. The combat

The combat is fine. I do agree some abilities need to be pruned but they did a lot of that in shadowbringers.

2. Leveling and alts

Levelling alts in FF14 is far superior to all other mmos where your on a totally separate character, you have all your stuff from your main( like mounts and flying) and you can hand down ungodly gear if your levelling the same role. They soon will add new game + for the MSQ, side quests give fuck all XP anyway and you can do loads of other things like pvp etc.

3. Queues are ridiculous, even during the peak hours.

Just ask in novice network or talk to people and play with them , its an MMO after all.

4. Professions are done horribly

Professions in this game are amazing ! They are almost a game in themselves.

[Tinytalon]

I haven't seen only a tiny portion. I've done a lot of quests. I've played the game for many hours. And fans have a habit of always doing what you are doing right now. No matter how much one has played, it's always "just keep going, it gets better". And when you've finally had enough it's "oh you never really gave it a chance".

Original level cap was 50. If the game has still not won me over at level 35, it's just over. The game had a chance. I'm not gonna waste more time only to be continued to be disappointed.

Even if the story changes, I know the combat isn't, so what's the point. Sorry but I'd rather play games that are fun.

Idk if you read what I said earlier, but I did say the game might not be for someone like you. So I don't really know why you keep trying to redeem your reasons of not playing. You don't have to explain them to anyone. If you don't want to play, then don't.

[Talrath]

I mean, nothing about the statistics backs that up. Multiple teams had Eden savage down in less than a day, and it was being pugged not long after, for example. This isn't the exception, either, it's pretty much the norm.

Class gameplay is lower APM across the board and far more linear in most cases. That's not even getting into stuff like gearing and such.

Maybe you find the scripted, hard-positioning-check nature of XIV fights harder personally or something, but overall there's nothing about them that puts them above mythic WoW overall, especially not end tier bosses.

Well there is the ultimate challenge thats for the very high end raiders. Ive never even touched that.

[andrewjoy]

Well there is the ultimate challenge thats for the very high end raiders. Ive never even touched that.

Nether have i , but i want to. I have looked into it and honestly , wow has nothing even close to ultimate in terms of complexity of the fight. Dont forget you can never out gear it so it will always be hard.

[Yoshingo]

Ugh, maybe there are even more outrageous examples later on, but so far Bowl of Embers was the worst in this regard. You're captured and stuck in a cave...but suddenly three random people show up to help you out? And even if it's not long, having to wait to get into MSQ-critical Trials/Dungeons really hurts the flow of the story sometimes. You get all pumped to fight a major boss...and then get stuck staring at a timer for 5-10 minutes. Really makes me wish the Trust system was available for more than just Shadowbringers stuff...but maybe that's something that will get added when they finally get around to revamping the older content.

Yeah I imagine it's going to just be a default going forward but it'll be hard to add in Trust stuff to a lot of the dungeons I think, most of the earlier stuff (Especially ARR) never had any of the major characters around. In fact a lot of the early dungeons were you just meeting some random person and them telling you to go there.

As much as I would want it, I also feel it would break the storytelling pretty hardcore if you had Alphinaud or Alisaie helping you out in early dungeons when you met them once beforehand and they weren't even in the Scions yet.

- - - Updated - - -

Maybe you find the scripted, hard-positioning-check nature of XIV fights harder personally or something, but overall there's nothing about them that puts them above mythic WoW overall, especially not end tier bosses.

Because all WoW does is lock mythic behind artifically inflated numbers which require you to get better gear. The fights mechanically are not super different in almost every case (There are some exceptions) from Heroic. FF14 opted to go the other way and just have super tight and difficult abilities that you didn't need like the absolute 100% best gear in every slot to beat.

Personally I find that much more enjoyable than having to bang away at the same mythic boss for a month until our raid's gear is arbitrarily at a point where our numbers can do the content. But that's entirely subjective.

[Talrath]

Nether have i , but i want to. I have looked into it and honestly , wow has nothing even close to ultimate in terms of complexity of the fight. Dont forget you can never out gear it so it will always be hard.

Atm im just lvling alchemist, since i didnt want to buy potions anymore, but anyhow its also hard to find a big fc that does raids. Everytime i get invited and see that only 3 peeps are online in a rush hour. This is what bums me out that i cant even enjoy dying in a ultimate fight.

Also do you know if they are going to make bigger servers and dont use layering? Ff14 has been feeling empty because of this while the citys are bigg as hell. Crystallium looks especially empty.

[threads]

I mean, nothing about the statistics backs that up. Multiple teams had Eden savage down in less than a day, and it was being pugged not long after, for example. This isn't the exception, either, it's pretty much the norm.

Class gameplay is lower APM across the board and far more linear in most cases. That's not even getting into stuff like gearing and such.

Maybe you find the scripted, hard-positioning-check nature of XIV fights harder personally or something, but overall there's nothing about them that puts them above mythic WoW overall, especially not end tier bosses.

i found savage far easier than a lot of mythic fights, unless they only do the first 2 mythic bosses each raid or something?

every savage boss is scripted to the point of people writing entire timelines of what the boss will do at each second of the fight. it's more of memorization than reacting to mechs. i've seen groups of people that parse grey on fflogs eventually clear raid tiers because they managed to eventually memorize the boss.

judging by some of the fanboying in this thread i'm guessing people havent play the game that long.

[Azerate]

Turns out I missed a lot of replies the last time, my bad.

You are 100% incorrect about everything you said. You skipped all the cut-scenes and didn't experience the story. You didn't experience the professions. You pretty much came into this game with a WoW mindset and expected to enjoy it. Go back to the drawing board, kiddo.

Well, this seems like a highly subjective thread. You'd probably get less blowback if you had just titled it "Reasons that I ended up disliking FFXIV", or something like that.

That's the only reason I even replied negatively to this thread tbh. I honestly agree that FFXIV has flaws but those are my gripes with the game, personally. These are OP's, as a WoW player, trying to get into the game and it shows.

lolololollollolololol opinions opinions

It might've helped to not have a thread title stated as if it's a fact while having no real backup for his points than subjective opinions based on comparing the game to WoW.

The game isn't unplayable, you just don't like it./thread

Allow me to be the one to enlighten you: aside from games that don't actually work or have technical flaws, no game or game feature is objectively bad, nor objectively good. Games and game features are considered good if there's enough people that enjoy them, and they are considered flawed if there are enough people who consider them flawed. Let's take combat for example: most people in this thread, even big time FF14 players, agreed that the game's combat doesn't feel too good. Alts? Again, most people agree leveling them is a pain, they just add that this is the case in every mmorpg game, which is beyond the point completely. Those two criticisms were basically universally agreed upon by posters of this thread, and I'm sure they are agreed upon by thousands of players worldwide who tried FF14 and did not find it to their liking. So yeah, the points are subjective, as are any criticisms of every game ever made, aside from pointing out obvious technical flaws. Something being a subjective opinion does not invalidate it in any way though, and if that subjective opinion is shared by many, then we are dealing with a gameplay problem that makes the game less pleasant for those people.

You are not wrong to like things the majority consider a flaw, and many people disliking things you like is not an attack on you personally, so you can stop being defensive now. For all the people who keep regurgitating the "it's all subjective" criticism, I would recommend watching this; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1BiLrOGfpM

It puzzles me a bit why you think an mmo telling you to run instanced content daily is a bad thing.

I did not mean anything like that. I meant it's wrong that this is basically the only good way to level your alts. The problem is not that the daily roulette gives a lot of exp, the problem is nothing else gives good exp and isn't boring.

Have you tried queing for low level dungeons as DPS in WoW? It rakes a hell of a long time.

I have 30 characters in wow, all level 110 or upwards, so yes, I queued a lot to low level dungeons, on both DPS and TANK roles. As long as it's not some horrid hour like 3 AM, they usually take about 10-15mins for dps, and like 1-2 mins for a tank. And also, the chief difference is, you don't actually have to do those dungeons to progress your character past certain points in WoW. Even if someone suddenly left wow and there would be no players in the entire world except you, you can still cap your toon.

Any game that you need to use 20 to 25 abilities in a rotation is batshit insane. That is the exact same reason I noped out of FF14 when I looked into the game a while back (when the blue mage was being added in)

Indeed.

When you make a statement as conclusive as he does, you expect to see some actual reasoning backing it up.

The reasoning is here in the OP as well as in my other posts, and posts made by other people. You just choose to ignore it because of your fanboyism.

The thread title is intentionally divisive and many comments within such as the ones about queue times are just factually wrong. I've also literally never seen someone say that FFXIV is killing WoW except this singular post, the two games appeal to totally different types of players.

It's not intentionally divisive. I rewrote the thread title multiple times in order not to make it sound too controversial and offensive, knowing how offended people can get when their game is criticised. I think the one I ended up with is pretty well worded out.

The queue times are not factually wrong, because these are the times I experienced, on EU servers during peak times. They might be different for someone else under different circumstances, but I have no knowledge of other people.

And yes, there are plenty people saying that ff14 is killing wow, you haven't see them, but I did.

2. Leveling and alts

Levelling alts in FF14 is far superior to all other mmos where your on a totally separate character, you have all your stuff from your main( like mounts and flying) and you can hand down ungodly gear if your levelling the same role. They soon will add new game + for the MSQ, side quests give fuck all XP anyway and you can do loads of other things like pvp etc.

Having another character and changing a job on the same character is a non-factor. It literally changes nothing aside from having to spend 20 seconds on logging out before accessing another class. Oh, and maybe having a different nickname on another character. If they want to give new game+ to play through msq on a different job that's great news, though I heard in this very thread there will be no xp rewards for doing that, so I'm not sure how good that will be.

[agentsi]

Same, with WoW you have alot of space to make mistakes but ff14 beats the living hell out of you if you even think of finishing your rotation. As a dragoon I got punished, but as a dragoon im living up my name as a dead dps.

100%.

I play a BLM, and it took us two weeks to finish Titan Savage. Finishing your rotation during evil earth or any avalanche means death. During prog, 1 death for your raid means wipe. Mythic tier they have constant wipes/rezzes and can still push on. The margin for error is so low in FFXIV until you have the gear to overpower it. Which takes weeks if not months in some cases.

[Swnem]

Turns out I missed a lot of replies the last time, my bad.






I did not mean anything like that. I meant it's wrong that this is basically the only good way to level your alts. The problem is not that the daily roulette gives a lot of exp, the problem is nothing else gives good exp and isn't boring.

.

This is like others have said cause you were unwilling to learn and invest in the game.

The adventure squadron, wich you were so quick to dismiss gives you about one level inxp per dungeon run. Their missions eventually reward you with a 15% xp boost item. They are a really good way to level and it's beyond me why you say they are terrible. If i want to level a job quickly, i spam those a bit, on top of all the available roulettes. It is the method i found more efficient because Palace of the dead gets unpopular on later tiers. It's something better enjoyed with a premade group.
Also, leveling your main job with the msq, surely you left many secondary quests to be completed. Now, i do get why you are so used to just going through a main questine to level your alts quickly, and i wish they gave us that option too. But regardless, what you don't get is that this is not as big an issue as you think. Cause without even trying hard you will level your jobs in a few months. Realise that that is where most players are already. They don't want resources to be used on something that is not an issue to them.

It's like playing WoW and seeing blizz wasting resources on making more lower level content for the low level people. It probably wouldn't go down well. AKA step one for enjoying FF is to drop the rush everything mentality we got from WoW. While you don't break from that, FF won't be the game for you.

[Zyrinx]

I played to lvl 35 on my trial and mostly enjoyed it, my issues were that features of the game were really unclear. The greenie channel did help, somewhat.

TBH though, if there really are 25 buttons in a max level "rotation", that is just way too many, and a major turnoff. IMO.

[Katchii]

Bottom line is that leveling alt jobs is very fast in XIV but just seems to *feel* really grindy. Whereas in WoW if I was leveling a new class I had all the quests and options to use and it felt a lot less annoying to just blow through 110-120 in an evening on an alt. That's one of the tradeoffs of the "all jobs on one character" system. (That said, I still vastly prefer the XIV way of doing it in every other way.)

I really hope New Game+ and going through the MSQ can be used as a leveling mechanism for alt jobs....

I see flaws in both games (WoW and FFXIV) as far as leveling alts, but still prefer FFXIV, but it's hard to deny that after completing the MSQ, leveling an alt is very grindy especially a DPS. I level everything to max over the course of the expansion, because it's really easy to do over time. But going from 70-80 is a grind, especially for DPS classes because the only reliable ways of leveling are roulettes, Trusts, or FATE grinding. That said, it happens pretty quickly. I do like having the Trusts option because it does provide a reliable way to grind at your own pace, but OMG is it tedious.

- - - Updated - - -

I played to lvl 35 on my trial and mostly enjoyed it, my issues were that features of the game were really unclear. The greenie channel did help, somewhat.

TBH though, if there really are 25 buttons in a max level "rotation", that is just way too many, and a major turnoff. IMO.

Honestly, there are a LOT of buttons in all the rotations, but usually only about 8-10 that are actually part of the rotation. The rest are abilities that get used relatively often, but aren't part of the rotation.

[Swnem]

The squadrons are pretty great (mostly because the NPCs are so overpowered) but they do get repetitive - especially since a lot of the dungeons are missing, its like 10 levels of Brayflox? - and of course you can only get to 60 or so with them.

Bottom line is that leveling alt jobs is very fast in XIV but just seems to *feel* really grindy. Whereas in WoW if I was leveling a new class I had all the quests and options to use and it felt a lot less annoying to just blow through 110-120 in an evening on an alt. That's one of the tradeoffs of the "all jobs on one character" system. (That said, I still vastly prefer the XIV way of doing it in every other way.)

Yes, i agree. I try not to spam them too much, causes everything in heavy repetition is annoying ( a way to avoid this is to level different jobs at the same time in different level brackets). But that is where the sense of rushing gets in the way. If you truly want to rush leveling a class, you can do all roulette's on it and do this. But yes, the point is if you want to rush, it will feel grindy. If you don't rush and slowly work into it, it will happen naturally. So, why rush it?

I guess if we are pedantic, one can level different jobs in different characters and the whole story experience will be repeatable there. The option is there. But if you want them all in the same character, yeah, there are some growing pains. But as you say, it is worthwhile in the end cause it's very convenient (and cheaper to pay a sub for one character than multiple).
Did anyone actually point this out? The sub for FF is cheaper than WoW if you just go for one character. People tend to overlook that.

[Rexosaurus]

Turns out I missed a lot of replies the last time, my bad.
Let's take combat for example: most people in this thread, even big time FF14 players, agreed that the game's combat doesn't feel too good. Alts? Again, most people agree leveling them is a pain, they just add that this is the case in every mmorpg game, which is beyond the point completely. Those two criticisms were basically universally agreed upon by posters of this thread, and I'm sure they are agreed upon by thousands of players worldwide who tried FF14 and did not find it to their liking.

This statement, as well as the rest within this quote, made it immediately apparent to me that you're willing to bend or exaggerate reality in order to confirm your own biases. The actual majority of posters in this thread have held mostly contrary opinions to yours. There are a handful of posters that agree with you, and a few more that agree with some facets of your opinion, but differ in the degree to which they dislike said facets.

As for your post in general; despite your protestations, the title of your thread makes it sound like you're giving a factual analysis of the game, and the way that you phrase things in your original post also indicates that this would be anyone's experience, were they to try to the game out. Just as an example, you say things such as:

It makes it hard to pick up a class because unless you're a gaming professor you will have a hard time learning it. It also makes it ridiculously hard to optimize your gameplay, let alone min-max, which is downright impossible.

The game is only playable if you have a friend who can tank/heal for you, otherwise you have to wait for like an hour, and your best bet is to just do something else (but that something else can't be playing an alt job, because the best way to level that up is doing dungeons, and you can't queue for another thing at the same time).

That makes it sound as if you're stating facts, not opinions. But despite the way that your message is presented, the majority of your post is subjective, anecdotal, or at times, false/misleading.

Your understanding of the combat system and leveling is obviously incomplete, as is your secondhand knowledge of crafting. Heck, you didn't even know what the adventure squadron or FATE trains were until you made this thread. Also, if TRUST dungeons take you any longer than 20-30 minutes then you're not doing something right. That's all totally fine if you're not playing "optimally", but that (mostly) isn't a fault of the game, nor should you be surprised to see people call you out for presenting an incomplete view of the game.

I think the best critique that I've gathered from this thread is that the game could do a better job of guiding new players to some of the features that are available through out the game.

[Zyrinx]

I think the best critique that I've gathered from this thread is that the game could do a better job of guiding new players to some of the features that are available through out the game.

This is absolutely 100% true. It's my main criticism, as I said above (or tried to).

[Irian]

The reasoning is here in the OP as well as in my other posts, and posts made by other people. You just choose to ignore it because of your fanboyism.

"Fanboyism"

And there we go, immediate ad hominem showing your ass. At least you didn't waste any time.

I already explained in other posts why I say this. Many of the things you describe as "serious problems" are literally reasons why I specifically play and enjoy this game. Seeing someone who made it to level 75, ignored the story and has never even touched endgame describe things that make the game interesting and worth playing as flaws because they aren't what you personally enjoy is not a worthwhile statement of facts.

I'll tell you what you want: You want WoW. And nothing's going to be WoW except WoW. The sooner you realize that, the sooner you might actually be capable of enjoying other games and not comparing them to WoW.
You clearly went into your experiences in FFXIV expecting a specific set of WoW-like features and were disappointed. You played the game like WoW, skipping cutscenes and pushing on to try to mass-consume the content and you got the experience you set yourself up for. There is no possible way a story-driven, slow RPG of a game would have satisfied you with the way you describe yourself as having played it.

This isn't "fanboyism" as you blindly toss out. I have plenty of grievances with the game myself, but I realize they're mostly personal and other people who play the game differently might disagree. FFXIV is my main game and as my main game I have an intimate relationship with its pretty huge shortcomings. Even as much as I'm critical about the game myself, I see nothing but the perspective of a tourist WoW player in your OP, the same shit I've seen parroted by all the other tourist WoW players on these forums, and I said the same thing to them as I'll say to you: You're not the target audience of the game, and the game isn't designed around you.

It's not intentionally divisive. I rewrote the thread title multiple times in order not to make it sound too controversial and offensive, knowing how offended people can get when their game is criticised. I think the one I ended up with is pretty well worded out.

So, summed up:

"It's not my problem, it's everyone else's problem!"

The fact that so many people are disagreeing with your assessment of the game on a WoW fansite should say more than enough.

This is absolutely 100% true. It's my main criticism, as I said above (or tried to).

In particular this is one of my (but not only) biggest gripes with the game as well. I've known a ton of friends who wanted to get into the game, had similar experiences as OP and others, and lost interest.

Several of them, months and sometimes later, tried the game again and are now in love with it. But it's hard to deny the game really sucks at guiding players to all the features it has. There's a ton of stuff in the game like Challenge Logs and Wondrous Tails that people at 80 don't even know exist, much less every dungeon and raid in the game.

The game presents itself very poorly at first, with limited content, "slow" combat and simple gameplay. It takes too long to get into the meat of it, but I'd never suggest a level boost because the story pretty much guides the entire game.

[Akasha64]

I have 30 characters in wow, all level 110 or upward.

Then go back to retail WoW. If you're happy with retail WoW, just stick with it. There's no reason to hate on FFXIV, especially when your facts are so wrong.

[Puremallace]

bleh

I got about 2 points in and realized this game is just not made for you. If you think ability pruning is awesome then Blizzards approach will make you very happy. I like being a Paladin tank with Paladin abilities that no other tank has and a crap ton of utility for niche situations.

If you are skipping the MSQ's then honestly what is the point of even playing? The best part about the MMO is the story. Also your comparison to Rift is hilarious because I played that game for 2 years and can link videos from Beta all the way up to the day I quit and I PROMISE you actions in this MMO are nothing remotely like that game.

I question if you even picked up the game if you made that statement. Queues as DPS suck go try and play Alliance in WoW if you hate long DPS queues. Not all MMO's are made for all people but you sound like you would be happy in WoW and hope that Blizzard gets their stuff together so that you find excitement again.

Also FF14 has won MULTIPLE awards and accolades for the way their in depth profession system is done so I cannot take that point seriously. The game is no designed around Square Enix over reacting to this type of feedback and ruining the game for the other 99% of the people who will never comment on the forums.

Then go back to retail WoW. If you're happy with retail WoW, just stick with it. There's no reason to hate on FFXIV, especially when your facts are so wrong.

Sort of my TL'dr on the situation above. Simple and sweet answer.

[Avellon]

Combat feels fantastically fluid to me, less spammy but still very active.
On most jobs, some are wonky but I think it's more of a personal preference.
Story has its ups and downs, some parts are ages above the crap other mmos have, hell, above other single player story driven games have.
Alt jobs are piss easy to level with all the exp avenues and daily bonuses.
Professions are fantastic but since most other mmos have no professions other than "pretend-professions" with nearly zero depth people expecting the same shallow crap will be horrified.
I've had little issues with queues and I play 99% dps.

[Musta]

It is for them. They can only talk about themselves. Why feel so challenged by it? He may and in my opinion has some legitimate points.

well its his opinion, i dont share it.