A decent MMO plagued by some serious problems that make it unplayable in the long run

[Akasha64]

..... players who are actually good at the game stupid.

The floor for tanking is so trivial now that anyone with eyes and hands can do it with ease. That even includes speedrunning.

Since when is speed-clearing dungeons being really good at the game? You contradicted yourself as well. You said anyone with eyes and hands can do it, so if everybody can do it, how is that even being good at the game? I have also speed-cleared dungeons but I didn't enjoy it. Tank keeps pulling and pulling and doesn't even wait for healer mana. It's a pretty stressful experience. If I have to choose between that, or taking 10 extra minutes with a few Trust NPCs, I'll happily take the latter.

The reason I called them idiots is because they hinder the experience of the game by rushing these dungeons and making it a stressful experience for the healer, instead of enjoying the scenery and story, but different strokes for different folks, I guess. These days I mostly focus on crafting/gathering, so I usually don't run dungeons much more than the first time anyway. Trusts all the way. I have not even cared about expert roulette in ages.

As for who told me, some person in my FC, but it was based on her experience so your experience could have been different. Admittedly, I didn't play during the first year or ARR days at all.

Anyway, this went on for long enough. I didn't think one sentence I wrote many days ago for one reply would trigger people so much that I'm still talking about it to this day. I guess it proves that speed-running really is present in this game, and you're all guilty of it.

[Sorrior]

biggest problem for me is the content gets stale quicker and quicker the longer i play. there really is not much content in the game atm. most people that played on shb launch have unsubbed until something new comes out.

i will say that this has been the case for every x.0 patch so not surprised. might get better in 5.1

Yoshi p actually has said he expects people to play this way and thinks it is a good thing

[Graeham]

Yoshi p actually has said he expects people to play this way and thinks it is a good thing

To be fair, though, he's said a lot of things that could be described as 'out of touch' or 'outdated'. A lot of people pick one MMO and stick with it. They may very well play other games, though often they do so alongside FFXIV.

I think the development team could do a better job when it comes to creating content that lasts. As it stands, a lot of what is added in a new patch is fluff...and I say that as someone who strives to at least try to dabble in every aspect of the game.

Sometimes I want to go back and tackle older content, though it's hard to do so for the more niche stuff like POTD/HOH deeper floors and Rival Wings. Eureka is also completely dead now too.

[Swnem]

FATEs are near-useless and open world zones are almost entirely dead and have been for some time. This isn't even something that's debatable or based in opinion.



That's patently false. I'm sorry, I like a lot of the XIV classes more than many WoW classes, but they're extremely simple. Oh sure, lots of buttons make it appear complex on the surface (kinda like crafting!) but almost every class is extremely basic. The only thing that XIV has "more" of in class gameplay is that they tend to be more punishing for messing up rotations/buffs.



The poster was talking about gear progression. Trinket effects, set effects, artifact effects, heart effects, whatever there is at any given time. Lots of different things that affect your gearing and - possibly - gameplay. XIV is just basic items that keep getting more stats.

1. Yes, it is your opinion. FATEs are there, just like rare marks are there and people hunt them when they are up in groups.
I will also let you know that they are just as much if not more populated than wow open world. The difference being WoW is artificially creating activity by putting you in a shard with all the people across all servers to make it look like it's active as they disappear in front of your eyes at any moment.
So, your opinion here is hella biased and born from the fact you can't use the group finder.

2. Classes... and again with this nonsense. A class that uses 3 to 4 rotational buttons is not more complex than ones that use 20. But, even if you say that somehow having more buttons doesn't make it more complex, wich obviously it does, there are also positionals and usually 2 resources and buffs to track. To top it off, you don't have weak auras to make alerts. So, yes, definitly more complex as there is more you need to be aware of, wich is especially challenging as you have to do mechanics and FF has quite strict enrage timers.

3. I'm gonna be honest. I don't think those things are positive in any way. They are just sources of unbalance. Also, we know essences are bland and azerite gear could be alright if they didn't hide a gambling box system behind it and didn't slap AP levels on it.
I would like to see set bonuses in FF, but not the rest. I don't think making gear complex is a positive and trinkets are a special flustercluck no one needs.

I think this really tied in with your open world thing. You seem to think that having infinite RNG and AP grinds is somehow good. I could not disagree more and it's why i stoped playing WoW. If there is one thig i am glad FF does is allowing you to build up currency and get your gear off a vendor. Btw you also seem to ignore that materia is a thing. You can customise your stats with them.

[Rogalicus]

1.The idea that there is nothing to do in the open world is laughable. The open world in FFXIV is alive with all the FATE events going on. There are all sorts of rewards you can get from running them in Shadowbringers.
2. That is actually a good thing. But WotlK did not work like that. You could only get entrance level gear with badges.
3. Just nonsense. There is way more depth in FFXIV classes than any of the current WoW classes.
4. This is completely false. Did you try Eureka? Gold saucer mini games? Hunts? PvP? Almost everything in the game has a progression system and rewards more variable than just gear. Wich btw is very different than WoW, wich is fact is only gear grind, pets and mounts. FF has all sorts of cosmetics, QoL, cutomisation options for your character, emotes, and housing items.

Like, i recognise problems with FFXIV. But your post was just a big misrepresentation.

1. Yeah, the world is so alive that even on the launch week of Shadowbringers I barely saw other people and soloed FATEs while I was waiting for dungeon queue. That's on full server.
2. TIL current tier set pieces and other epics are entry level gear.
3. I said WotLK. Though I'm pretty sure even barebones classes of BfA are way more diverse and interesting than most of FFXIV classes. Even one of the most braindead specs has slow, ability to make target unable to do anything for 60 seconds, stun, aggro drop, spell interrupt, AoE slow, aggro transfer, ability to soak massive damage and root. Most of those are actively used in actually difficult content. Can you provide same example from FFXIV?
4. I didn't ask you for fluff list and yes, I've tried most of it and IMO it sucks.

Btw you also seem to ignore that materia is a thing. You can customise your stats with them.

You probably have your own definition of customization. Most HQ items are capped on their secondaries, materia is "add some third secondary stat that sucks least for your class".

[KrayZ33]

1. Yeah, the world is so alive that even on the launch week of Shadowbringers I barely saw other people and soloed FATEs while I was waiting for dungeon queue. That's on full server.

Oh come on, what a load of BS.
People were farming Fates for the first weeks like there were not appearing again.
You'd constantly get like ~30 mobs in fates because players were doing them so much, leading to the point where you couldn't even solo most of them if you happened to go to one which has recently spawned somewhere on the outer sides of a zone.

People used them to level their alt job to 80 after doing the MSQ with their first, while waiting for dungeon queues and roulettes etc.
Or to farm up the vendors and all that.
Not to mention the special fates in all of the zones which are behind a long fate-chain each.

Same thing with hunts - you were zoned out from most of players because the game only allows you to see ~40 entities at once (or something), you had about 200+ people (probably 250+) doing the same hunt-target.

[Swnem]

What is "opinion" about the fact that I can run around most zones soloing FATEs and almost never see another soul?

Also, if I have to use the group finder to actually find other people, that kinda proves the point.



More buttons doesn't make something more complex. And I don't know why some people keep clinging to this fantasy of XIV being more complex or challenging than other games, the facts speak for themselves with regards to content clear times and the performance gap between top and bottom players.



Now that's an opinion.



I said nothing about RNG, and materia doesn't "customize" a thing. C'mon.

- - - Updated - - -



Yeah, first week or so they were pretty busy. By the time I was leveling my second 80 though, I was soloing them while waiting for queues.

What proves the point is that you are comparing it to an mmo that does the grouping automatically and saying the opposite.

Well, you are just playing the broken record now. The games have very different leveling curves. Also, yeah, WoW has way more room for you to screw up your character with bad talent and gear choices. Much that proves...

It's my opinion but you just proved me right by the previous comment!

Alright, let's pretend you didn't talk about gear bought in a vendor like it's a bad thing and no customisation whatsoever. It helps your tilted case.

STOP comparing a game with one server to a game that merges every player in every server in a shard! If you have a problem with the tech, point that out and i might agree with you.

[Swnem]

This has nothing to do with grouping or group finders, we're talking about the open world. Knock it off.



A game giving you chances to make mistakes isn't a bad thing. Regardless, doesn't change the fact that there's a larger gap in performance in WoW, so the idea that XIV is harder or more complex seems like nonsense both anecdotally and statistically.



I never said a thing about vendor gear.



If the world is dead to a player, it's dead. It doesn't matter why.

What? It has everything to do with it. Getting really tired of your skewed comparisons.
So, no. If you want to say it is unpopulated, you're gonna have to admit that so are the WoW servers. Cause they are. The difference is the tech that groups people cross server to pretend it isn't. So be accurate or stop spreading lies. I am not gonna lie to make you happy.

I mean, you can't see the contradiction in your own words, so what else can i say?

[Polarthief]

As someone who got back into FF14 about 3 months ago and I'm already starting to decline from it:

1. Absolutely. The delay also ruins oGCD for me as you're stuck in an "animation lock" before you can do another action. I try to explain this to people who have only played FF14 and not WoW, and it's baffling how they don't understand. It feels bad. AoEs are also clunky because not all the hits go out at once, so if the party gets hit by an AoE, you'll see health bars dip one at a time which can be awkward for trying to time your AoEs. Combat in general feels extremely clunky. Also yes, the ability bloat is so real. While I hate pruning of utility and non-rotational abilities, I absolutely hate rotational bloat significantly moreso. It's why DNC is the only DPS I really enjoy (2 button combo for both ST and AoE, 1 oGCD proc, and all combos can proc into their own proc), with RDM being a close second.

2. I personally don't mind this too much as I can do plenty of other things, such as professions, FATE grinding, Gold Saucer, other dailies, etc. That said, I also mainly play Healers and Tanks because, like your #1 point, I personally hate DPS in this game (PS: Try RDM or DNC, both of which are a bit more lax on the ability bloat).

3. I find Alliance Raid queues to be pretty quick(ish) for DPS, and sometimes others can be too. I had Trials need DPS before, which was nice.
Moral of the story: Try healer if you want the quickest queue. It's the most enjoyable job in this game anyway.

4. Sorry but no, this I will flat out disagree with on you. There are a handful of QoL problems (some of which are being addressed in the patch coming later this month), but professions feel amazing in FF14 compared to something like WoW where they're a total afterthought.

Also yeah, there's plenty of other QoL issues that add up to a huge issue for me, but that's just the nature of Asian MMOs unfortunately.

Guy plays FF14 and skips every cutscene. Ok this guys opinion isn't valid. Stopped reading.

The problem is that when you sit down to play a video game, you want to *play a video game*, not play for 2 minutes then watch 10 minutes of cutscenes. Everyone hates Praetorium in their MSQ for this exact reason (though of course they like the XP/Tomestones). There's plenty of ways you can show story through gameplay. You don't need your players watching a non-interactive movie* every step of the way.

Also telling someone their opinions on non-story-based systems don't matter because they don't watch the story is like saying you can't be a food critic because you don't like eating beef... and you're not even critiquing beef. That's a nonsense statement for anyone to say.

*PS: Those bullshit non-options don't do anything and don't matter.

[-aiko-]

Leveling is always what turns me off from FFXIV. I've put a lot of hours into the game (currently 3 levels into Shadowbringers) but it seems like I always end up here to vent my frustrations about it. It's boring. Even Shadowbringers, which has one of the most interesting stories I've seen in an MMO, manages to keep me from playing in long periods because of how boring it is. There's just nothing interesting about the actual quest design; they're all bland, typical MMO quests. Having a good story ironically makes this a little worse because it ends up feeling like a bunch of cliffhangers. Interesting cutscenes, boring quests, interesting cutscenes, boring quests, etc.

I'd also like to chime in and break this myth that people like to pretend is true, that FFXIV has a "better community". Anecdotes are anecdotes, but I've run into some very horrible people in random dungeons. About the same amount as any other game because, y'know, gamers are gamers no matter what game they're playing and gamers can be toxic. Or not. It's luck of the draw who you get matched up with.

Regarding combat, this is just (obviously) going to come down to personal preference. FFXIV to me is in a weird spot. I've always preferred slower but more methodical or analytical style of gameplay. For example, my choice of class in WoW is Feral Druid. There's a lot of downtime, but it's downtime that feels good, because I can prepare 2-3 steps ahead to push my dps.

The problem is that not every class should be designed this way. Red Mage is an example of a class that I think is very well designed in FFXIV, but then you have something like Dancer. I was hyped as fuck for Dancer. It's pretty much the main reason I bought Shadowbringers. And, while it's not a bad class it's ultimately a huge letdown to me because it's a class that just BEGS to be faster-paced. The GCD really holds it back.

[Dartz1979]

There a few reasons why i love final fantasy 14 over other mmo's i get to have my character look non pgish for starters meaning she yes i play female characters not many men players like looking at men avatars/characters... also i love the lore characters in the game the women look so powerful and sexy and finally i dont need to have a handful of characters like other games i can have all the classes/professions all on one character which is very nice so whoever says it's stale and lame think about things every game you eventually run out of content to do you just either take a break and wait for new content or farm materials and currency cause all games you will need to keep doing things.

[Swnem]

There's no contradiction. A player doesn't care why something is, it simply is. If they go out into the world to do something and they don't see anyone else, that's their experience. They're not gonna stop and think, "Well, it's ok, it's just because of XIV's tech."

Also, I never said anything about WoW's open world being dead or not. So I don't know why you keep pushing these comments on me that I never said and then claim that you got me or something. This is the third time now that you've just made something up and claim that I said it. (RNG/AP, vendor gear, and now WoW's open world)

Well, try not to butt in in another ongoing conversation if you are not prepared to defend the points raised.

Also, yes there is contradiction by your own admission that on the same paragraph say it's ok that WoW allows people to make mistakes with gearing and then claim at the same time that that means it's because the classes are more complex. No, it's cause the gearing is more complex, by your own admission. You want to consider complexity wether you can be bothered to go check a guide or not. Not the number of things you have to keep track of while playing. So, yeah, we got a disagreement there.

The WoW open world and how it compares was what the discussion was about. It was point number 1. Don't butt in if you don't know what is being talked about.
Also, yes, finally a player can think this is empty and incorrectly be fooled by the same thing in WoW. But it is not. The groups are just created manually rather than automatically created by the system. Same thing otherwise.

[Akasha64]

There's just nothing interesting about the actual quest design; they're all bland, typical MMO quests.

Ya know, I always hear people say that, but these are the same people that are diehard WoW fans as well but don't criticize WoW for that. Like, really, is killing 15 Defias Pillager and 15 Defias Looter (Classic Westfall quest) any better? In FFXIV at least they NEVER let you kill like 30 mobs on quests like that. Usually it's 5 or less. This at least to me makes questing feel less grindy.

I mean I guess it's okay for knocking on FFXIV for MMO style quests, but if you are going to do that you should do the same for WoW as well, which also has standard MMO style quests. No reason to uphold double standards on this.

[Trekkie]

Ya know, I always hear people say that, but these are the same people that are diehard WoW fans as well but don't criticize WoW for that. Like, really, is killing 15 Defias Pillager and 15 Defias Looter (Classic Westfall quest) any better? In FFXIV at least they NEVER let you kill like 30 mobs on quests like that. Usually it's 5 or less. This at least to me makes questing feel less grindy.

I mean I guess it's okay for knocking on FFXIV for MMO style quests, but if you are going to do that you should do the same for WoW as well, which also has standard MMO style quests. No reason to uphold double standards on this.

No, it's not, but the reason WoW was ever good in the first place wasn't the quest design.

[-aiko-]

Ya know, I always hear people say that, but these are the same people that are diehard WoW fans as well but don't criticize WoW for that.

There's no double standard here because I didn't provide my opinion on WoW's leveling. Me saying FFXIV's leveling is boring doesn't mean I'm saying WoW's leveling is fun.

[Swnem]

Um..no? That's not how anything works, you don't get to assign someone elses' comments to me just because I join in the conversation. If you want to argue with them, talk to them. Don't quote me and then argue against things I never said.



I never said that "mistakes in gearing" had anything to do with complexity of classes.



Again, nothing you're saying disagrees with the initial assertion of, "FATEs are often dead and you're soloing them as often as not."

That has nothing to do with WoW. That's just the reality of the situation right now. And everything about sharding or tech is just an excuse. The situation is as it is, regardless of the reason why.

I can't tell you apart. I don't keep notebooks on who says what when they butt in into an ongoing discussion, but i do try to keep it on the original points of the discussion. If you have some details that are different, you can always say them rather than play the victim and say "i didn't say that". Well yeah, when you just parachuted into the conversation and presented no initial statement that is a very slippery and convenient stance to have.
I can always ignore you, i guess.

The discussion was over how alive the outer world was. You tried to steer it to amount of people in a fate. I said that people do those in groups for higher efficiency and you keep saying that you're soloing them therefore it's dead. So what? You got that option. If you want to purposely think the game is dead cause you don't group or join a theme linkshell, go right ahead.

[Aoyi]

Ya know, I always hear people say that, but these are the same people that are diehard WoW fans as well but don't criticize WoW for that. Like, really, is killing 15 Defias Pillager and 15 Defias Looter (Classic Westfall quest) any better? In FFXIV at least they NEVER let you kill like 30 mobs on quests like that. Usually it's 5 or less. This at least to me makes questing feel less grindy.

I mean I guess it's okay for knocking on FFXIV for MMO style quests, but if you are going to do that you should do the same for WoW as well, which also has standard MMO style quests. No reason to uphold double standards on this.

I also just want to add to this to say that at least in Final Fantasy, if they say get 3 of an item from killing mobs, you get those 3 in 3 kills. There's no killing 15 goats to get your 3 hooves for a quest in Final Fantasy.

[Swnem]

I also just want to add to this to say that at least in Final Fantasy, if they say get 3 of an item from killing mobs, you get those 3 in 3 kills. There's no killing 15 boars to get your 3 hooves for a quest in Final Fantasy.

This is true. The quests are not super original or anything. They are standard stuff, but they are always low on frustration. Even the secondary quests never ask you to kill/loot more than 5 things. Usually even less.

Are they boring? Yeah, all questing is inherently repetitive. I have not seen an mmo where that isn't the case. But you know, it's a weird complaint. It's a problem with the genre. Cause even when quests are replaced with events in GW2, it also gets repetitive cause you end up doing the same things over and over.

It deserves a more general consideration. It's not an FF problem. It's an MMORPG problem.

[Swnem]

Sometimes I swear it's just assumed that in this subforum there's an implied, "Compared to WoW..." at the start of every post.

- - - Updated - - -



Yeah, yeah, I get that you're just trying to act like you're above all this by pretending you don't know one poster from another or something. That's just Board Warrior 101, everyone knows this nonsense.



I didn't "steer" anything. In fact, it was you that brought up FATEs and Bicolors as the reason why the world was "alive". You were literally the first person to specifically bring them up in the discussion about the open world feeling empty.

And the bottom line is that if you go out into the world most of the time to do stuff, you're going to feel completely alone. That's an objective reality. It's not a big issue, and it's not significantly different from other MMOs open-world content, but it's absolutely true.

Sure, dude. I guess you can think you are more to me than you actually are, if it makes you feel better.
I do not recall ever saying the words "bicolored gems". I said FATE's are the reason the world is alive (more alive than wow in that context). They are worth doing cause of the rewards they offer. Gems are part of it but not all. But if it's not of importance i guess we can disregard your comment that you are only doing them solo. You confuse world that is alive with shifting content with "there's lots of players around".
Yes, it is objective that you are alone when you don't group. FF doesn't put you in a shard with lots of cross server players. I have said this time and again but it doesn't sink in.

[-aiko-]

I also just want to add to this to say that at least in Final Fantasy, if they say get 3 of an item from killing mobs, you get those 3 in 3 kills.

This is straight up false. There are many drop quests that are not 100% drops, that require you to 'farm' mobs. My biggest complaint though are the fetch quests. Go here and come back so I can send you somewhere else! They aren't as bad at this as they used to be but this still makes up a disgusting chunk of MSQs (which means they are unavoidable). Completely horrible quest design.

Sometimes I swear it's just assumed that in this subforum there's an implied, "Compared to WoW..." at the start of every post

It's a weak position anyway. "Leveling also sucks in this other game" doesn't make it okay for leveling to suck. In fact it's kind of a problem. We need to be more vocal about these boring ass MMO-standard quests so developers stop using them and figure something better out.