A decent MMO plagued by some serious problems that make it unplayable in the long run

[Cthulhu 2020]

What about ARR level ranges? That's where I am now and FATEs are dead.



Which floors are you running?

The floors that get spammed the most are 51-60. And 20+ minute runs are REALLY rare for me, though they do happen sometimes.



After leveling through FATEs for ARR and HW and getting several relics (fuck Atmas), I'm just so exceedingly burnt out on them that I can't stand them. I know it's a relatively subtle difference, but FATE grinding feels so much more monotonous to me than PotD because it's the same thing over an over and over, watching FATEs pop running over, using AoE blindly then running to the next one. At least in PotD the floors look different, enemy placement and strategy is slightly different and you're not just following along in a pack.

It just feels different to me. I hate FATEs......so much. I still remember the Quarrymill -> Costa Del Sol -> Coerthas -> Northern Thanalan FATE trains from back in the day.



Agreed, for super casual.

I still recommend unlocking PotD and getting to floors 51-60 because it really is a reliable way to level. FATEs are hit or miss with groups and quickness, and Squadrons take WAY too damn long to get to the useless stage to where they compete with PotD or even efficient FATE farming.

ARR fates are some of the fastest ones over other expansions. The way you're scaled the enemies are a joke and the way the zones are designed for running on the ground means flying trivializes the travel time. HW and beyond zones are far more massive.

Both are repetitive and monotonous and I've never really used either to level alt jobs that heavily. I am certainly not super casual and I got all 80's just doing leveling roulette + MSQ roulette each day. It took me maybe 6 months, and would have taken far less if I'd started this expansion with all 70's. But going into endwalker with all 80s will be nice.

[Malix Farwin]

You said it "was" still going on, which implies that it no longer is. Regardless, I wasn't trying to argue. Simply inform.

No the "was" is for their xpac, i never said ffxiv "was" done. They themselves said they weren't doing anymore xpac simply because they can't. No gonna lecture me on FFXI when i played it since 2002.

[Katchii]

ARR fates are some of the fastest ones over other expansions. The way you're scaled the enemies are a joke and the way the zones are designed for running on the ground means flying trivializes the travel time. HW and beyond zones are far more massive.

Have you actually tried ARR FATE's?

In my experience, they're a ghost town nowadays. So even easy FATE's can take 2-3 minutes solo and give pretty pitiful amounts of xp for your effort compared to quests.

I'm not saying FATE's can't be good, but there's far too many requirements that have to be met, some of which you have absolutely no control over) for them to be competitive with PotD (have to be the right level/ in the right zone, have to have enough people to complete them quick enough, ensure you get enough hits in/ threat to get the max credit. Whereas with PotD you just show up and get through it. It's hit or miss too, but the experience has been far more consistent than any other method I've ever used, for just straight grinding anyway. Daily Roulettes are still the best bang for your buck though.

Both are repetitive and monotonous and I've never really used either to level alt jobs that heavily. I am certainly not super casual and I got all 80's just doing leveling roulette + MSQ roulette each day. It took me maybe 6 months, and would have taken far less if I'd started this expansion with all 70's. But going into endwalker with all 80s will be nice.

I only use PotD and other "grindy" methods on jobs where I really, really want to level up as much as possible in a day, after I've already exhausted the roulette bonuses. I did the same as you and used the daily roulettes and beast tribe quest xp for the vast majority of my leveling. In Shadowbringers level ranges I did a few Trust dungeons, but they're horrible as far as xp/hour because the NPCs are so slow and get really old really fast. It took me up until about ~2 months ago to get all my classes to 80, and that was with them all starting at 70, as I took several breaks throughout the patch cycle between each bout of leveling.

[Malix Farwin]

I did read. But as Val said in his post, the time between the games lately should not be considered as some kind of trend due to how many issues those had, which are not typical. Are you choosing to ignore that or are you doubling down on the idea that the next games will have as many issues that delay them?

I don't care either way, was just wanting to get a sense for why you were saying 2028. I'm not trying to insinuate you're wrong either.

This is so off base i do not even know where to begin to be perfectly honest with you. This is logical because A. its a trend that has been set over a long period of time. B. if they went this long with "having issues" than to assume they wouldnt having "issues in the future is wishful thinking". C. i already factored that in when i said 2028. Thats guesstimate WITHOUT ANY ISSUES. They simply are not dropping ff games at the rate they did 20 years ago and there is nothing to suggest that they will.

[Poppincaps]

No the "was" is for their xpac, i never said ffxiv "was" done. They themselves said they weren't doing anymore xpac simply because they can't. No gonna lecture me on FFXI when i played it since 2002.

I wasn't lecturing you bro, don't be so defensive. Jesus.

[Katchii]

This is so off base i do not even know where to begin to be perfectly honest with you. This is logical because A. its a trend that has been set over a long period of time. B. if they went this long with "having issues" than to assume they wouldnt having "issues in the future is wishful thinking". C. i already factored that in when i said 2028. Thats guesstimate WITHOUT ANY ISSUES. They simply are not dropping ff games at the rate they did 20 years ago and there is nothing to suggest that they will.

OK, thanks for clarifying.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Input lag is enough for it to never feel like a very competitive game to me. Good time waster.

I've never heard anyone complain about input lag in 6 years unless they themselves were lagging and had high ping. Usually people should be able to weave two off-global-cooldown abilities between every 2.5 seconds GCD, some people with super good ping can apparently weave 3 at times, but lagging 1 might be hard.

So I can't say I know what you mean by input lag unless your connection is just bad.

You're right, the raiding is not super competitive, in fact a lot of the top teams are cooperative in helping each other to figure out mechanics. That's a result of the type of community, cooperative rather than competitive.

[Ethas]

Literally EVERYTHING you just said is stupid. I left wow 5 months ago cause it is boring as hell. I definitely did not leave to piss off Blizzard. I left cause the game just plain sucks ass, Period. Another shit and broken system on top of other broken and shitty systems. The game isn't fun any more. Even though fun is HIGHLY subjective for everyone.

When I log into a game I want to have fun playing the class and doing the things within the game. I don't want to log in to feel as if I am doing chores. And that is exactly what WoW felt like. It felt like a fucking chore. I'm sorry but to me that is not even close to fun at all. So I went to FFXIV where the game is actually fun to play. I don't feel I have to log in to do chores or else I am behind. Square-Enix is doing it exactly how gamers want and that is why WoW people are coming over to it.

The players just want to have fun without all the damn chores. FUCK trying to piss ass-grabbing Blizzard off. Hopefully the perverts will learn a lesson out of all this mess that they themselves have created and fix their shit game right now.

I am sorry but that is just anecdotal experience and we have seen this for years on these same forums with every single wow killer which eventually died out.

[ippollite]

My anecdote is similar. Is this now a statistic?

[Aggressive]

I am sorry but that is just anecdotal experience and we have seen this for years on these same forums with every single wow killer which eventually died out.

WoW is killing itself. No one is doing that for them. They are, literally, killing off themselves. Yoshi P said he isn't trying to compete with WoW.

The mass exodus of players leaving wow is cause players want to play a game that is fun...........NOT with chores like WoW is.

[Lane]

I'm fairly certain that was a troll post, but I do find it laughable that anyone would believe Blizzard capable of being 'pissed off' when they've made it abundantly clear over the years that they do not care about players' thoughts (or apparently employee's feelings either).

Combat, professions, and questing in FFXIV are the same or similar as every other major MMO since the early 2000s. There isn't much impetus in the genre of the most expensive and least profitable games made to experiment much with formulas that work.

Also, polish doesn't mean much if there's nothing fun to do. I would love to have reasons to play my WoW characters, but WoW isn't designed for players like me anymore. I have no reason to return until that changes and I say this having made the mistake of buying SL after skipping BfA because I thought it would be better. This is now a pattern and that was my sign that it's time to move on to something else. I'd consider revisiting WoW if they start making fundamental changes in development, but not before then.

I love my FFXIV characters too, I'm getting quite attached. I think the cutscenes, the way the NPCs interact with them, and how they impact the story makes such a big difference in investment. Emotional rather than time.

[Katchii]

Combat, professions, and questing in FFXIV are the same or similar as every other major MMO since the early 2000s.

The only thing I don't agree with is the professions bit. I don't know of any other major MMO that does what FFXIV does with the crafting professions, specifically, but gathering is different too. Every other major MMO I've ever played (and I'm pretty sure I've played most if not all of them) are just hitting a button once you have all the materials and then waiting for the crafting to be complete. And gathering is just walk up to a node, clicking a button if you're the right gathering level, and then waiting for it to be done. FFXIV is a little more involved than that.

Otherwise I agree with everything else you said.

[Rogalicus]

The only thing I don't agree with is the professions bit. I don't know of any other major MMO that does what FFXIV does with the crafting professions, specifically, but gathering is different too. Every other major MMO I've ever played (and I'm pretty sure I've played most if not all of them) are just hitting a button once you have all the materials and then waiting for the crafting to be complete. And gathering is just walk up to a node, clicking a button if you're the right gathering level, and then waiting for it to be done. FFXIV is a little more involved than that.

Otherwise I agree with everything else you said.

There was a small indie MMO called Everquest 2 back in 2004 with crafting actually being involved process and having separate storylines.

https://eq2.zam.com/wiki/Understanding_the_Arts

[Katchii]

There was a small indie MMO called Everquest 2 back in 2004 with crafting actually being involved process and having separate storylines.

https://eq2.zam.com/wiki/Understanding_the_Arts

Thanks for the info. EQ2 was one I never did play, admittedly. Though this still doesn't really change the fact that most don't have systems like this, which is counter to what was stated in the post I was responding to.

- - - Updated - - -

The thing about crafting in XIV is that it's (almost, with just one real exception) 100% deterministic. So the whole system kind of just boils down to hitting a certain stat threshold and then pressing a macro to spit out an item. Much the same as in any other game.

It's sort of ironic that at lower levels you can get away with a lot more "just winging it" and the system will seem much more complex. But by endgame, the game won't even let you try that anymore due to stat requirements. It's all getting certain stats and then macroing it.

That's fair. I don't do end game crafting because of how much time, effort and money are involved in getting there. But I see this as similar to the combat of most games, once you get to [insert requirement] what you're supposed to do to get the best result is very deterministic.

It's still a more involved system than most other games.

[Lane]

Honest opinion? Don't bother unless you just enjoy doing it.

Is it worth it for glamours? That's the only reason I was considering taking up crafting.

[Katchii]

Honest opinion? Don't bother unless you just enjoy doing it.

Yes, you can just print money at certain periods if you keep up with the current pentamelded crafting sets. But you can also almost print money crafting stuff that isn't endgame, stat threshold limited stuff. There are so many niches in the economy and it's wonderful.

Agreed. I've never enjoyed crafting enough to spend that much effort on it. I tried in ARR, but quickly discovered just how CONSTANT the effort is to both stay up to date on gear but also find markets for the stuff you're making because there are so many complete nincompoops posting on the MB who inadvertently crash markets by posting at values that aren't worth the effort.

Is it worth it for glamours? That's the only reason I was considering taking up crafting.

No. As long as you have an alternative way to make money. As far as I'm aware, there are no craftable pieces of gear that cannot be traded so there's no NEED to take up crafting to get the glamours you want.

[Poppincaps]

To be fair some of the craftable glamours are pretty damn expensive.

[Graeham]

To be fair some of the craftable glamours are pretty damn expensive.

Yeah, though the prices tend to go down quite a bit if you don't mind waiting. At the very least, I always urge people to wait at least two weeks after a patch launches before buying anything added in that patch because you're looking at a difference between paying, say, 5 million for an item that'll go down to 2.5 or even 1 million after that time period.

[Advent]

I struggle to stay at 100k gil, idk how the hell anyone has a million or more.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

I struggle to stay at 100k gil, idk how the hell anyone has a million or more.

I made millions when Bozja first came out. For an hour and a half of cluster farming in a group, you could farm enough clusters to buy the robot mount, which you could put up on the market board and sell for 3-4 million a piece. Prices fell over the course of the first 2 weeks. By the end of the 2nd week, when prices began dipping below 300k, that's when I stopped cluster farming.

I was hoping that with Zadnor, a new hairstyle or mount would be introduced that could be bought with easily farmed clusters and sold on the market board. Alas it did not come to pass. Better hope next time for Endwalker.