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  1. #481
    My opinion here is to have flying released after a much shorter time. Pathfinder I is for my part a very acceptable requirement. It makes reaching that goal quickly a good incentive to do WQs, quests and exploration early. But as many others say, after a while it just becomes a dull grind to keep up with azerite level or similar.

    I have to say, however, that there is a lot in the thread presented as facts. Heavy use of "actually" or "fact of the matter" with no proof. Lots of feelings seem to be about whether flying affects world PvP. But saying that is either all or nothing is plain wrong, as there are always shades of gray. I might for example fly to an opposite side of a WQ area if someone is ganking on the other side, as my world PvP usually consists of me being killed. That is an effect on world PvP, beneficial for me trying to avoid it. Are there other, larger, things affecting world PvP? Probably. Could it be improved by other, better, means? Probably. But saying there is no effect whatsoever is not right.

  2. #482
    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    Restrict flight while war mode is on also solves this neatly.
    Provided there is some sort of additional reward buff (or some other more elegant solution) to compensate I can 100% get behind this idea. I'm sure there's some creative way to have the two paths (pvp and pve) take similar amounts of time to accomplish the same goals.

  3. #483
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    And, to be blunt: that was a huge mistake. Cata felt soo forgettable and disconnected FOR ME.
    Imho it was great leveling with flying and made deepholm very enjoyable.

  4. #484
    woot a other flying post, while the expansion is not even close to beta yet....ffs...

    There have been several reasons stated by players who are not pro/anti flying. And by the pro or anti groups. If you look at most of the polls. They like the current system. But do not like that pathfinder 2 is later.

    My opinion flying should be there after the first content patch of gameplay patch. ( so 0,5 or 1.0 ) Maybe a bit later. This gives people time to level, so not that you get flying ganked in pvp realm. Or your elite's/quest objectives keep getting farmed infront of you.


    But blizzard also has given a good reason. They do not want to make content that cost time and money etc to make. Just to have people flying over it. it a waste of time and money. And people will burn thru content faster. And then they will whine....where is my content.
    BFA - Barf for Alliance
    Horde you sad or angry that your faction is a bunch of mass murdering, cowards , without honor bad guys??
    The alliance is there for you

  5. #485
    Quote Originally Posted by Didly View Post
    Provided there is some sort of additional reward buff (or some other more elegant solution) to compensate I can 100% get behind this idea. I'm sure there's some creative way to have the two paths (pvp and pve) take similar amounts of time to accomplish the same goals.
    A reward buff to what? War mode already has bonus rewards for gold and some resources, as well as PVP-only talents. What more do you need?

    The entire point of restricting flight in War Mode would be to satisfy those who want the grounded PVP experience. PVE only players who want the grounded experience can....just not use their flying mounts, and have the entire length of the Pathfinder unlock to do that.

    I admit that it's a bandaid fix. But it's one that covers a LOT of the issues people have, while simultaneously being a VERY easy fix to apply. More in-depth and lengthy solutions would be best, of course, but they have the downside of taking a lot more work and dev time from Blizzard.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by baskev View Post
    But blizzard also has given a good reason. They do not want to make content that cost time and money etc to make. Just to have people flying over it. it a waste of time and money. And people will burn thru content faster. And then they will whine....where is my content.
    This has already been solved.

    Shadowlands is a mythical land that doesn't need terrain to conform to normal rules of continents and geology. Each zone can, and probably SHOULD, be in its own instance. This removes the problem of players going from a zone they have flying unlocked to one they don't. The story of Shadowlands is linear, so Blizzard can easily put the unlocks for each zone behind the story of each zone.

  6. #486
    Quote Originally Posted by letsdothat View Post
    The hardcore no-lifed it in a record time anyway, so gating didn't stop them from zooming through it. The losers are the casuals who support this game, yet they get treated with repetitive boring chores every day leaving them no time to really enjoy the game. It makes absolutely no sense.

    I quit several times and even when I reactivated, I played once, or twice max per week, no longer than 1 hour a day and couldn't stand looking at the same zone anymore.

    Who thought of this anyway? What's wrong with simply just not giving flying to anyone until a certain time has passed rather than make people hate your own game. This is beyond ridiculous.
    Flying mounts were originally removed because some Blizzard devs were angry about players flying over their carefully crafted content. The devs were convinced many players weren't having fun with WoW because of that and believed things would get much better if players would just take 5 minutes to land and look around. The pathfinder achievement was created because Blizzard tried to remove flight and force players to walk but a large portion of the player base disagreed and became upset. Anyway, the point is the pathfinder achievement wasn't created to make flying available to all players. It was created as a "compromise" between artistically outraged developers and a player base who didn't want to be told what was fun. In my opinion the players got the short end of the stick.
    Last edited by WinningOne; 2019-11-24 at 03:38 AM.

  7. #487
    Pathfinder should still be there. you should go through some hoops before you can fly. Something like having to visit all flightmasters, explore all zones and maybe finish the zone story. Rep and timegating on the other hand.. Should fuck straight off. No need what so ever to have bs like that

  8. #488
    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post


    This has already been solved.

    Shadowlands is a mythical land that doesn't need terrain to conform to normal rules of continents and geology. Each zone can, and probably SHOULD, be in its own instance. This removes the problem of players going from a zone they have flying unlocked to one they don't. The story of Shadowlands is linear, so Blizzard can easily put the unlocks for each zone behind the story of each zone.
    Because the landmasses are not phased from other players. Blizzard says its because people skip content. Then yeah.

    But it does not fix the dive bomb in pvp, mob/elite/quests being farmed away from the masses with people with flying etc.

    Do not get me wrong. I think pathfinder is a good system, but it needs a change. But the MoP model to get flying when you ding max level is to fast. But a quicker time table i am okay with.
    BFA - Barf for Alliance
    Horde you sad or angry that your faction is a bunch of mass murdering, cowards , without honor bad guys??
    The alliance is there for you

  9. #489
    Quote Originally Posted by baskev View Post
    Because the landmasses are not phased from other players. Blizzard says its because people skip content. Then yeah.

    But it does not fix the dive bomb in pvp, mob/elite/quests being farmed away from the masses with people with flying etc.

    Do not get me wrong. I think pathfinder is a good system, but it needs a change. But the MoP model to get flying when you ding max level is to fast. But a quicker time table i am okay with.
    Disable flight while in War Mode: All pvp issues solved.

    Require a pathfinder-like achievement for each zone: Skipping content solved.


    How are people still misunderstanding this? Flying at the beginning of an expansion, with no timed lockouts would require a complete and total overhaul of how Blizzard designs content. They've made it clear that they're not willing to do this. I think that decision is a path of weakness, but maybe people really like their repetitive WQ/Emissary grind. I don't know.

    But as long as we're stuck with Pathfinder, what I mentioned above is a simple and easy fix that makes literally everyone happy except the greediest number-crunchers at Blizzard corporate HQ. And those guys wouldn't be happy unless they could literally make players into indentured servants who's paychecks went directly info offshore Blizzard accounts. So fuck them, and give us a reasonable system.

  10. #490
    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    Disable flight while in War Mode: All pvp issues solved.

    Require a pathfinder-like achievement for each zone: Skipping content solved.


    How are people still misunderstanding this? Flying at the beginning of an expansion, with no timed lockouts would require a complete and total overhaul of how Blizzard designs content. They've made it clear that they're not willing to do this. I think that decision is a path of weakness, but maybe people really like their repetitive WQ/Emissary grind. I don't know.

    But as long as we're stuck with Pathfinder, what I mentioned above is a simple and easy fix that makes literally everyone happy except the greediest number-crunchers at Blizzard corporate HQ. And those guys wouldn't be happy unless they could literally make players into indentured servants who's paychecks went directly info offshore Blizzard accounts. So fuck them, and give us a reasonable system.
    I disagree. But hey to each his/her own.

    I think pathfinder is okay.
    BFA - Barf for Alliance
    Horde you sad or angry that your faction is a bunch of mass murdering, cowards , without honor bad guys??
    The alliance is there for you

  11. #491
    Quote Originally Posted by Aggrophobic View Post
    Actually, you did. In Cata.
    And Wrath I believe

  12. #492
    Quote Originally Posted by Bennett View Post
    And Wrath I believe
    Wrath you could buy cold weather flying at 78 IIRC. If you didn't have proper flying you could get a loan mount in the Storm Peaks because you needed it for the zone. It was kinda slow though. Due to this some cheapskate people never bothered to buy flying for months. And had to be summoned to Naxx since they couldn't get there in person.

    Cata never had "old weather flying", you could fly in the old world from level 60+. If you'd played previous expansions you could fly day 1 of Cata.

  13. #493
    Pathfinder exists for the sole reason to bolster time played metrics. Nothing more, nothing less.

  14. #494
    It is simply a decision made to keep people playing the game and paying the subscription.

    If you have a goal to work toward, you are much more inclined to play each day to achieve that goal. By gating flying (a feature that most players will want but don't necessarily need) behind ridiculous reputation grinds, Blizzard can ensure at least a few weeks/months of subscriptions.

    It is incredibly repetitive and boring, especially when you are forced to participate in zones that you dislike (I hated Mechagon for example)

    Instead of asking why it's behind a rep grind, I believe it is better to ask why you even want flying. So you can do World Quests quicker? So you can just grind quicker? Pathfinder was something that kept me subbed for a month when I returned with Classic, but I unsubbed about 30 mins after getting it. Such an anticlimactic feeling. Sure, it was cool to see KT/Zandalar from the air, but after that it is literally pointless.

    Once people start seeing the psychology behind ingame decisions made to keep you playing, the easier it is to just say 'I'm not going to do this'.

  15. #495
    Quote Originally Posted by baskev View Post
    I disagree. But hey to each his/her own.

    I think pathfinder is okay.

    /facepalm

    Please read.

    "as long as we're stuck with Pathfinder, what I mentioned above is a simple and easy fix that makes literally everyone happy"

    You think pathfinder is ok? So we put a pathfinder on each zone. Would this not ALSO be "ok" in your book?

  16. #496
    Quote Originally Posted by Laqweeta View Post
    Pathfinder exists for the sole reason to bolster time played metrics. Nothing more, nothing less.
    The whole game exists to bolster time played metrics... that's why people make games, so other people will play them.

  17. #497
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    The whole game exists to bolster time played metrics... that's why people make games, so other people will play them.
    I should've added in COMPARED to BC, WotLK, Cata and MoP.

  18. #498
    Quote Originally Posted by Laqweeta View Post
    I should've added in COMPARED to BC, WotLK, Cata and MoP.
    Those expansions all had some sort of bullshit grind for rewards that, if you didn't enjoy them, could be lamented as only being there to bolster time played metrics.

  19. #499
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    Those expansions all had some sort of bullshit grind for rewards that, if you didn't enjoy them, could be lamented as only being there to bolster time played metrics.
    No not really. I'm not sure how you can compare FLYING to a fucking enchant that you could buy off the AH if you didn't want to grind it lmao.

  20. #500
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    Those expansions all had some sort of bullshit grind for rewards that, if you didn't enjoy them, could be lamented as only being there to bolster time played metrics.
    BC and WotLK didn't have those grinds time gated. every single one of those grinds had an alternative that allowed you to speed it up in some way and/or delegate the grind to couple of days a week and not feel like you are falling behind instead of having to do limited dailies every day. yes, dailies were there, but they were NOT the only way to do those grinds. you could run dungeons. you could farm turn in items. Cata is where it started to go downhill with MoP having its own issues with the whole gating of reps behind other reps. but it wasn't until WoD that we REALLY started to get into time gates, which incidentally is where we also got pathfinder.

    you see the major difference here is flexibility in playtime. current grinds really want you to grind every day or fall way WAY behind.

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