1. #2821
    The Insane Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyrlaan View Post
    Next level bullshit right here. Hard to assume you aren't trolling at this point.

    D&D says hi... for starters.
    We're talking about Warcraft, not D&D.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GenericDragon View Post
    There are bards that use actual magical music shenanigans to do shit in Warcraft. They're just very few (only one in game that I know of). Doesn't mean Blizzard couldn't... I don't know... expand on the lore and create new lore to fit their vision of what they want a Bard class to be, if they ever decide to do it.
    Russell Brower, a homage character based on WoW's sound designer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Don't we already have that from Leatherworking?

    I don't even know if those buffs are relevant any more, especially the Bloodlust/Timewarp providing ones. Do people still use those?

    If they phased them out of Leatherworking, I don't see them making a full profession out of it.
    Weren't those just Drums? You could move the drums over to the "bard" profession and add some more instruments to it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tyrlaan View Post
    Literal bard in action. One brewmaster in WC3 was enough to justify monk. I'd say bard is basically confirmed at this point.
    One Brewmaster hero and the entire lore of Pandaria from which that Brewmaster came from that you can base an expansion around. Neither exists for the Bard.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Lorewalkers.
    Hearthsinger Forresten.
    Russell Brower.
    And zero connections between any of those characters.

  2. #2822
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    One Brewmaster hero and the entire lore of Pandaria from which that Brewmaster came from that you can base an expansion around. Neither exists for the Bard.
    Well, if we use the Loremaster as a basis for a Bard spec (which certainly seems doable) we'd have exactly as much Lore for the basis of a Bard as they did for the Monk. Actually, considerably more.

  3. #2823
    The Insane Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jellmoo View Post
    Well, if we use the Loremaster as a basis for a Bard spec (which certainly seems doable) we'd have exactly as much Lore for the basis of a Bard as they did for the Monk. Actually, considerably more.
    The Loremaster would need some abilities in order for it to be the basis of a class spec.

  4. #2824
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    They aren't. Shadow Hunters are Troll Shaman.
    They arent. They are Shadow Hunters. Which is like a shaman, and a rogue, and a kind of shadow priest, and a hunter. Who worship Loa Wild Gods.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    wE doNt kNoW wHat PlAyeRs wAnT FoR CHarACteR CrEaTioN MOdelS

  5. #2825
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    One Brewmaster hero and the entire lore of Pandaria from which that Brewmaster came from that you can base an expansion around. Neither exists for the Bard.
    There was zero lore about Pandaria before MoP. Nothing other than a namedrop. We didn't know if it was the name of a zone, an isle, a continent, a city, etc, before the Mists of Pandaria expansion.

    And zero connections between any of those characters.
    Ah, Teriz... when will you ever admit you were wrong, instead of trying to save face by attempting to fallaciously move the goalposts? First you claim there is "zero lore" for bards. And when shown you're objectively wrong, you move the goalposts "buh-buh-but there's zero lore connection between your examples!" You're starting to behave more and more like a child.

    But, to humor you: humans and dwarves are very tightly connected, relationship-wise. To the point that both dwarves and humans were paladins.

    Lorewalkers could be the pandaren's version of the college of bards, just like the Explorer's League could be the dwarves' version of the college of bards.
    Last edited by Ielenia; 2019-10-22 at 01:16 AM.
    I did a Necromancer thing. Check it out! All feedback welcome!
    Update 08/17: I changed how the Bone spec's golem mechanic works, as well as some other minor changes.
    I also did a Bard thing! Questions, comments and ideas, all welcome!
    Update 09/02: Apparently the mods decided to merge my class concept thread with an existing one.

  6. #2826
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    The Loremaster would need some abilities in order for it to be the basis of a class spec.
    The built the Monk class off of what, 3 abilities? I'm pretty sure they could piece something together.

  7. #2827
    The Insane Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jellmoo View Post
    The built the Monk class off of what, 3 abilities? I'm pretty sure they could piece something together.
    Four abilities. Four abilities is better than zero.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellorion View Post
    They arent. They are Shadow Hunters. Which is like a shaman, and a rogue, and a kind of shadow priest, and a hunter. Who worship Loa Wild Gods.
    In the class lineup, the Shadow Hunter was absorbed into the Shaman class.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Ah, Teriz... when will you ever admit you were wrong, instead of trying to save face by attempting to fallaciously move the goalposts? First you claim there is "zero lore" for bards. And when shown you're objectively wrong, you move the goalposts "buh-buh-but there's zero lore connection between your examples!" You're starting to behave more and more like a child.
    No goalposts were moved. Three completely disconnected and unrelated characters is zero lore for a unified class concept.

  8. #2828
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Four abilities. Four abilities is better than zero.
    Well, 3 actives and a passive.

    But wait, Loremaster Cho is a Hearthstone card.

    Whenever a player casts a spell, put a copy into the other player's hand.
    So Loremasters have a sort of spell steal/copy targeted spell back at the caster sort of ability.

  9. #2829
    The Insane Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jellmoo View Post
    Well, 3 actives and a passive.

    But wait, Loremaster Cho is a Hearthstone card.



    So Loremasters have a sort of spell steal/copy targeted spell back at the caster sort of ability.
    LoL! Yeah, Hearthstone isnt WoW. And it definitely isnt canon.

    Surely we can find a Loremaster with a single ability right?

  10. #2830
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    No goalposts were moved. Three completely disconnected and unrelated characters is zero lore for a unified class concept.
    Teriz. You absolutely moved the goal posts. First you said:
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Well sadly for Bards no such lore exists in Warcraft.
    And then when you were shown you were wrong (as you often are), you moved the goal posts (as you often do):
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    And zero connections between any of those characters.
    And by the way, Teriz, keep this in mind: you shouldn't go around telling other people that their class idea "works best as a profession", because the same thing could be said about your class idea. Which is only made worse since your class idea already is a profession in the game.
    I did a Necromancer thing. Check it out! All feedback welcome!
    Update 08/17: I changed how the Bone spec's golem mechanic works, as well as some other minor changes.
    I also did a Bard thing! Questions, comments and ideas, all welcome!
    Update 09/02: Apparently the mods decided to merge my class concept thread with an existing one.

  11. #2831
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    LoL! Yeah, Hearthstone isnt WoW. And it definitely isnt canon.

    Surely we can find a Loremaster with a single ability right?
    And exactly how many times have you sourced HotS for the Tinker class in this thread?

  12. #2832
    The Insane Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jellmoo View Post
    And exactly how many times have you sourced HotS for the Tinker class in this thread?
    Several. Mainly because those HotS abilities are now in WoW.

  13. #2833
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    LoL! Yeah, Hearthstone isnt WoW. And it definitely isnt canon.
    All of this sounds hugely hypocritical coming from you who use a "isn't WoW and definitely isn't canon" source: Heroes of the Storm.

    And on top of that, you say BS like:
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Yeah, if you play Hearthstone, the Gelbin Mekkatorque card is pretty awesome. Lots of great ideas for class abilities.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Mana Shield is an old Mage ability. Frost Arrows work exactly like Concussive shot. Forked Lightning is too similar to Chain Lighning to be placed in the game. Shaman even have Forked Lightning in Hearthstone, hinting that Shaman will more than likely get it as a glyph or an ability in future expansions.
    "The Hearthstone stuff could actually be a hint to the next WoW expansion."
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    The number of technology-based ideas they pulled for HS is pretty impressive, and people really seem to enjoy the overall theme.

    Let's hope Blizzard carries that over to WoW, because Gnomes and Goblins are kind of neglected.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    He's a legendary card. Just like Illidan.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Actually that would be Gazlowe, thanks to his prominent role in Hearthstone, Heroes of the Storm and Warlords of Draenor.
    I did a Necromancer thing. Check it out! All feedback welcome!
    Update 08/17: I changed how the Bone spec's golem mechanic works, as well as some other minor changes.
    I also did a Bard thing! Questions, comments and ideas, all welcome!
    Update 09/02: Apparently the mods decided to merge my class concept thread with an existing one.

  14. #2834
    The Insane Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Teriz. You absolutely moved the goal posts. First you said:

    And then when you were shown you were wrong (as you often are), you moved the goal posts (as you often do):


    And by the way, Teriz, keep this in mind: you shouldn't go around telling other people that their class idea "works best as a profession", because the same thing could be said about your class idea. Which is only made worse since your class idea already is a profession in the game.
    Uh, my class idea is based on the Tinker hero from WC3 and now HotS. Saying that the Engineering profession is the same as the Tinker class simply shows your ignorance of how WoW classes work.

  15. #2835
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Russell Brower, a homage character based on WoW's sound designer.

    So? He still exists in game with spells of his own, him being an homage doesn't make a damn bit of difference in this context. Especially since he could have just played music without said music being magical. And even then, nothing stops Blizzard from making up new lore on the spot. Am I saying it's likely to happen? No, I don't think it is, because there are other classes that have more to work from to be introduced before Bard. But that doesn't mean there isn't precedence within game for them to make their own version of the class.

  16. #2836
    The Insane Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    All of this sounds hugely hypocritical coming from you who use a "isn't WoW and definitely isn't canon" source: Heroes of the Storm.

    And on top of that, you say BS like:


    "The Hearthstone stuff could actually be a hint to the next WoW expansion."
    Taking quotes out of context really doesn't help your point here. For example, saying that Blizzard could take ideas from Hearthstone for an expansion is far different than saying that Lorewalkers have abilities because of a Hearthstone card.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GenericDragon View Post
    So? He still exists in game with spells of his own, him being an homage doesn't make a damn bit of difference in this context. Especially since he could have just played music without said music being magical. And even then, nothing stops Blizzard from making up new lore on the spot. Am I saying it's likely to happen? No, I don't think it is, because there are other classes that have more to work from to be introduced before Bard. But that doesn't mean there isn't precedence within game for them to make their own version of the class.
    Yeah it won't happen, so why are we even wasting time discussing it? Half of Brower's abilities are Priest abilities from Cataclysm.

  17. #2837
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Several. Mainly because those HotS abilities are now in WoW.
    So, just to clarify your stance:

    Because an NPC in WoW has the abilities of a unit in HotS, that makes it a valid basis for a WoW class.

    And

    Monks are a valid basis for a class because the Brewmaster had 3 active abilities for a base, but next to no lore. Lorewalkers have a ton of lore, but since there are no active abilities they cannot be the basis for a class.

  18. #2838
    The Insane Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jellmoo View Post
    So, just to clarify your stance:

    Because an NPC in WoW has the abilities of a unit in HotS, that makes it a valid basis for a WoW class.
    When that NPC is the same character as the HotS character, yes.

    And

    Monks are a valid basis for a class because the Brewmaster had 3 active abilities for a base, but next to no lore. Lorewalkers have a ton of lore, but since there are no active abilities they cannot be the basis for a class.
    Actually coming off of WC3 the Brewmasters had quite a lot of lore;

    Hailing from the secretive Pandaren Empire, the mighty brewmasters travel the world in search of exotic ales and the finest brewed spirits. These affable warriors rarely seek out danger or trouble, preferring instead to spend their time concocting new and tasty beverages for any brave enough to imbibe them. However, if attacked, the laughing brewmasters bring all of their pandaren agility and ferocity to bear! They are peerless warriors and world class drinkers all in one!
    The Brewmasters of Pandaria have emerged from the bamboo forests of their ancestors to bring their unique fighting style (and robust ales) to the highest bidder. Attacks land units.
    That's definitely quite a bit more than "next to nothing".

  19. #2839
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    When that NPC is the same character as the HotS character, yes.
    So a class based on Sylvanas would make sense?

    Actually coming off of WC3 the Brewmasters had quite a lot of lore;



    That's definitely quite a bit more than "next to nothing".
    Compared to the lore we got in MoP? It is absolutely next to nothing. And remember, a metric ton of the Warcraft 3 lore regarding Pandaren was retconned.

  20. #2840
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Uh, my class idea is based on the Tinker hero from WC3 and now HotS.
    So you admit the hypocrisy. People cannot mention other Warcraft franchise games not connected to Warcraft canon for their class idea, but you have no issues doing it yourself for your class idea.

    Saying that the Engineering profession is the same as the Tinker class simply shows your ignorance of how WoW classes work.
    Yeah, this bears repeating:
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    You're no one to tell others about "how classes work", Teriz.

    Or even how Blizzard operates.

    You've shown, time and again, how little you know about Blizzard's design processes and decisions.

    And those threads I linked are nothing but the ones shown on the first page of search results.

    You've learned nothing from your mistakes. You argued "class overlap" against the demon hunters, and you are doing it again, against class ideas such as bard, dark rangers and necromancers.
    I simply mentioned the "tinkers as engineer profession" simply to show off your hypocrisy: "saying a bard "profession" is the same as a bard class simply shows your ignorance of how WoW clases work."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Taking quotes out of context really doesn't help your point here. For example, saying that Blizzard could take ideas from Hearthstone for an expansion is far different than saying that Lorewalkers have abilities because of a Hearthstone card.
    They're not out of context, and it's the exact same thing. Because it shows how some other bardic abilities could work.
    I did a Necromancer thing. Check it out! All feedback welcome!
    Update 08/17: I changed how the Bone spec's golem mechanic works, as well as some other minor changes.
    I also did a Bard thing! Questions, comments and ideas, all welcome!
    Update 09/02: Apparently the mods decided to merge my class concept thread with an existing one.

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