1. #3041
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Four abilities. Four abilities is better than zero.
    Well, 3 actives and a passive.

    But wait, Loremaster Cho is a Hearthstone card.

    Whenever a player casts a spell, put a copy into the other player's hand.
    So Loremasters have a sort of spell steal/copy targeted spell back at the caster sort of ability.

  2. #3042
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    Quote Originally Posted by jellmoo View Post
    Well, 3 actives and a passive.

    But wait, Loremaster Cho is a Hearthstone card.



    So Loremasters have a sort of spell steal/copy targeted spell back at the caster sort of ability.
    LoL! Yeah, Hearthstone isnt WoW. And it definitely isnt canon.

    Surely we can find a Loremaster with a single ability right?
    My comic series inspired by WoW and MMOs:

    Tinker Class Concept 2018 Dragonsworn Class Concept 2019

  3. #3043
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    No goalposts were moved. Three completely disconnected and unrelated characters is zero lore for a unified class concept.
    Teriz. You absolutely moved the goal posts. First you said:
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Well sadly for Bards no such lore exists in Warcraft.
    And then when you were shown you were wrong (as you often are), you moved the goal posts (as you often do):
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    And zero connections between any of those characters.
    And by the way, Teriz, keep this in mind: you shouldn't go around telling other people that their class idea "works best as a profession", because the same thing could be said about your class idea. Which is only made worse since your class idea already is a profession in the game.
    I did a Necromancer thing. Check it out! All feedback welcome!
    Update 08/17: I changed how the Bone spec's golem mechanic works, as well as some other minor changes.
    I also did a Bard thing! Questions, comments and ideas, all welcome!
    Update 09/02: Apparently the mods decided to merge my class concept thread with an existing one.

  4. #3044
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    LoL! Yeah, Hearthstone isnt WoW. And it definitely isnt canon.

    Surely we can find a Loremaster with a single ability right?
    And exactly how many times have you sourced HotS for the Tinker class in this thread?

  5. #3045
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    Quote Originally Posted by jellmoo View Post
    And exactly how many times have you sourced HotS for the Tinker class in this thread?
    Several. Mainly because those HotS abilities are now in WoW.
    My comic series inspired by WoW and MMOs:

    Tinker Class Concept 2018 Dragonsworn Class Concept 2019

  6. #3046
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    LoL! Yeah, Hearthstone isnt WoW. And it definitely isnt canon.
    All of this sounds hugely hypocritical coming from you who use a "isn't WoW and definitely isn't canon" source: Heroes of the Storm.

    And on top of that, you say BS like:
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Yeah, if you play Hearthstone, the Gelbin Mekkatorque card is pretty awesome. Lots of great ideas for class abilities.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Mana Shield is an old Mage ability. Frost Arrows work exactly like Concussive shot. Forked Lightning is too similar to Chain Lighning to be placed in the game. Shaman even have Forked Lightning in Hearthstone, hinting that Shaman will more than likely get it as a glyph or an ability in future expansions.
    "The Hearthstone stuff could actually be a hint to the next WoW expansion."
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    The number of technology-based ideas they pulled for HS is pretty impressive, and people really seem to enjoy the overall theme.

    Let's hope Blizzard carries that over to WoW, because Gnomes and Goblins are kind of neglected.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    He's a legendary card. Just like Illidan.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Actually that would be Gazlowe, thanks to his prominent role in Hearthstone, Heroes of the Storm and Warlords of Draenor.
    I did a Necromancer thing. Check it out! All feedback welcome!
    Update 08/17: I changed how the Bone spec's golem mechanic works, as well as some other minor changes.
    I also did a Bard thing! Questions, comments and ideas, all welcome!
    Update 09/02: Apparently the mods decided to merge my class concept thread with an existing one.

  7. #3047
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Teriz. You absolutely moved the goal posts. First you said:

    And then when you were shown you were wrong (as you often are), you moved the goal posts (as you often do):


    And by the way, Teriz, keep this in mind: you shouldn't go around telling other people that their class idea "works best as a profession", because the same thing could be said about your class idea. Which is only made worse since your class idea already is a profession in the game.
    Uh, my class idea is based on the Tinker hero from WC3 and now HotS. Saying that the Engineering profession is the same as the Tinker class simply shows your ignorance of how WoW classes work.
    My comic series inspired by WoW and MMOs:

    Tinker Class Concept 2018 Dragonsworn Class Concept 2019

  8. #3048
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Russell Brower, a homage character based on WoW's sound designer.

    So? He still exists in game with spells of his own, him being an homage doesn't make a damn bit of difference in this context. Especially since he could have just played music without said music being magical. And even then, nothing stops Blizzard from making up new lore on the spot. Am I saying it's likely to happen? No, I don't think it is, because there are other classes that have more to work from to be introduced before Bard. But that doesn't mean there isn't precedence within game for them to make their own version of the class.

  9. #3049
    Titan Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    All of this sounds hugely hypocritical coming from you who use a "isn't WoW and definitely isn't canon" source: Heroes of the Storm.

    And on top of that, you say BS like:


    "The Hearthstone stuff could actually be a hint to the next WoW expansion."
    Taking quotes out of context really doesn't help your point here. For example, saying that Blizzard could take ideas from Hearthstone for an expansion is far different than saying that Lorewalkers have abilities because of a Hearthstone card.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by GenericDragon View Post
    So? He still exists in game with spells of his own, him being an homage doesn't make a damn bit of difference in this context. Especially since he could have just played music without said music being magical. And even then, nothing stops Blizzard from making up new lore on the spot. Am I saying it's likely to happen? No, I don't think it is, because there are other classes that have more to work from to be introduced before Bard. But that doesn't mean there isn't precedence within game for them to make their own version of the class.
    Yeah it won't happen, so why are we even wasting time discussing it? Half of Brower's abilities are Priest abilities from Cataclysm.
    My comic series inspired by WoW and MMOs:

    Tinker Class Concept 2018 Dragonsworn Class Concept 2019

  10. #3050
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Several. Mainly because those HotS abilities are now in WoW.
    So, just to clarify your stance:

    Because an NPC in WoW has the abilities of a unit in HotS, that makes it a valid basis for a WoW class.

    And

    Monks are a valid basis for a class because the Brewmaster had 3 active abilities for a base, but next to no lore. Lorewalkers have a ton of lore, but since there are no active abilities they cannot be the basis for a class.

  11. #3051
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    Quote Originally Posted by jellmoo View Post
    So, just to clarify your stance:

    Because an NPC in WoW has the abilities of a unit in HotS, that makes it a valid basis for a WoW class.
    When that NPC is the same character as the HotS character, yes.

    And

    Monks are a valid basis for a class because the Brewmaster had 3 active abilities for a base, but next to no lore. Lorewalkers have a ton of lore, but since there are no active abilities they cannot be the basis for a class.
    Actually coming off of WC3 the Brewmasters had quite a lot of lore;

    Hailing from the secretive Pandaren Empire, the mighty brewmasters travel the world in search of exotic ales and the finest brewed spirits. These affable warriors rarely seek out danger or trouble, preferring instead to spend their time concocting new and tasty beverages for any brave enough to imbibe them. However, if attacked, the laughing brewmasters bring all of their pandaren agility and ferocity to bear! They are peerless warriors and world class drinkers all in one!
    The Brewmasters of Pandaria have emerged from the bamboo forests of their ancestors to bring their unique fighting style (and robust ales) to the highest bidder. Attacks land units.
    That's definitely quite a bit more than "next to nothing".
    My comic series inspired by WoW and MMOs:

    Tinker Class Concept 2018 Dragonsworn Class Concept 2019

  12. #3052
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    When that NPC is the same character as the HotS character, yes.
    So a class based on Sylvanas would make sense?

    Actually coming off of WC3 the Brewmasters had quite a lot of lore;



    That's definitely quite a bit more than "next to nothing".
    Compared to the lore we got in MoP? It is absolutely next to nothing. And remember, a metric ton of the Warcraft 3 lore regarding Pandaren was retconned.

  13. #3053
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Uh, my class idea is based on the Tinker hero from WC3 and now HotS.
    So you admit the hypocrisy. People cannot mention other Warcraft franchise games not connected to Warcraft canon for their class idea, but you have no issues doing it yourself for your class idea.

    Saying that the Engineering profession is the same as the Tinker class simply shows your ignorance of how WoW classes work.
    Yeah, this bears repeating:
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    You're no one to tell others about "how classes work", Teriz.

    Or even how Blizzard operates.

    You've shown, time and again, how little you know about Blizzard's design processes and decisions.

    And those threads I linked are nothing but the ones shown on the first page of search results.

    You've learned nothing from your mistakes. You argued "class overlap" against the demon hunters, and you are doing it again, against class ideas such as bard, dark rangers and necromancers.
    I simply mentioned the "tinkers as engineer profession" simply to show off your hypocrisy: "saying a bard "profession" is the same as a bard class simply shows your ignorance of how WoW clases work."

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Taking quotes out of context really doesn't help your point here. For example, saying that Blizzard could take ideas from Hearthstone for an expansion is far different than saying that Lorewalkers have abilities because of a Hearthstone card.
    They're not out of context, and it's the exact same thing. Because it shows how some other bardic abilities could work.
    I did a Necromancer thing. Check it out! All feedback welcome!
    Update 08/17: I changed how the Bone spec's golem mechanic works, as well as some other minor changes.
    I also did a Bard thing! Questions, comments and ideas, all welcome!
    Update 09/02: Apparently the mods decided to merge my class concept thread with an existing one.

  14. #3054
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    Quote Originally Posted by jellmoo View Post
    So a class based on Sylvanas would make sense?
    Relevance?


    Compared to the lore we got in MoP? It is absolutely next to nothing. And remember, a metric ton of the Warcraft 3 lore regarding Pandaren was retconned.
    We got the lore in MoP from the Brewmaster hero. Loremasters were part of that lore. Again, the issue isn't if there's lore surrounding loremasters, the issue is that there's no Bard lore or abilities to show a connection with other so-called "Bards".

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    So you admit the hypocrisy. People cannot mention other Warcraft franchise games not connected to Warcraft canon for their class idea, but you have no issues doing it yourself for your class idea.
    The HotS abilities are canon. Please keep up.
    My comic series inspired by WoW and MMOs:

    Tinker Class Concept 2018 Dragonsworn Class Concept 2019

  15. #3055
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    The HotS abilities are canon. Please keep up.
    Nope. Nothing in Heroes of the Storm is canon, because the game's lore is not canon to the Warcraft franchise's canon lore. Just because some characters and/or abilities may have similarities does not mean they're canon.
    Last edited by Ielenia; 2019-10-22 at 02:20 AM.
    I did a Necromancer thing. Check it out! All feedback welcome!
    Update 08/17: I changed how the Bone spec's golem mechanic works, as well as some other minor changes.
    I also did a Bard thing! Questions, comments and ideas, all welcome!
    Update 09/02: Apparently the mods decided to merge my class concept thread with an existing one.

  16. #3056
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Yeah it won't happen, so why are we even wasting time discussing it? Half of Brower's abilities are Priest abilities from Cataclysm.
    Why not discuss it? Just because I don't see it happening doesn't mean I think it doesn't fit, which is the point: that it COULD become a thing.

    And you mean Wedding Hymn = Divine Hymn? Maybe. Maybe it's mechanically a priest ability, but if priests have the ability to use soothing sounds to heal, then doesn't that prove the point even further that a class based entirely around magical sounds could potentially be a thing? With some tweaking, of course. His other abilities are a frostbolt generated from music (mechanically a mage ability, but conjured in a different way) and a blast of spellstorm generated from music (mechanically a druid ability in starsurge).

    The difference here is aesthetic, which happens with other classes plenty. Conflagrate and Fire Blast are essentially the same spell (both are instant cast fire spells, they even share the same icon), but they come from different classes. Magical aptitude overlaps in a lot of classes, but the difference is in how they play. And the Bard fantasy hasn't yet been covered in WoW, so it very easily could be picked up in the future.

  17. #3057
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    They're not out of context, and it's the exact same thing. Because it shows how some other bardic abilities could work.
    So now you're so desperate that we're going to pretend that a Hearthstone card is a WoW ability?

    Laughable. I remember you said that Hearthstone wasn't canon. Talk about hypicrisy.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Actually, that is "next to nothing" lore. Actually, it's less than that. It's actual zero lore about the MONK class.

    - - - Updated - - -


    Nope. Nothing in Heroes of the Storm is canon, because the game's lore is not canon to the Warcraft franchise's canon lore. Just because some characters and/or abilities may have similarities does not mean they're canon.
    Yeah, they're the same abilities from HotS, on the same character (Gazlowe), and they're actually in WoW. Unlike that Hearthstone card you're trying to push as the foundation for Lorewalker Bards.
    My comic series inspired by WoW and MMOs:

    Tinker Class Concept 2018 Dragonsworn Class Concept 2019

  18. #3058
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Relevance?
    We have abilities seen in HotS reflected in game.

    We got the lore in MoP from the Brewmaster hero. Loremasters were part of that lore. Again, the issue isn't if there's lore surrounding loremasters, the issue is that there's no Bard lore or abilities to show a connection with other so-called "Bards".
    Except we received Brewmasters (well, Monks) before we saw that Lore. Now we've seen and experienced that lore. And there wasn't any lore connecting Brewmasters to a Monk class before it happened. I don't see why that couldn't be the same with Lorewalkers and a Bard class.

  19. #3059
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    So now you're so desperate that we're going to pretend that a Hearthstone card is a WoW ability?

    Laughable. I remember you said that Hearthstone wasn't canon. Talk about hypicrisy.
    I'm not saying it is. I'm just pointing out your hypocrisy in using non-canon sources as "sources of canon lore". You berated the other poster for him pointing out Cho's card in Hearthstone as an example of what bards could do, when you have been using Hearthstone and HotS to back up your tinker.

    Yeah, they're the same abilities from HotS, on the same character (Gazlowe), and they're actually in WoW.
    Still non-canon.

    Unlike that Hearthstone card you're trying to push as the foundation for Lorewalker Bards.
    And strawman. Absolutely no one is saying to use Cho's HS card as "foundation". This is just you lying through your teeth, because you'd have no arguments whatsoever if you accurately represented other people's opinions and posts.
    I did a Necromancer thing. Check it out! All feedback welcome!
    Update 08/17: I changed how the Bone spec's golem mechanic works, as well as some other minor changes.
    I also did a Bard thing! Questions, comments and ideas, all welcome!
    Update 09/02: Apparently the mods decided to merge my class concept thread with an existing one.

  20. #3060
    Titan Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jellmoo View Post
    We have abilities seen in HotS reflected in game.
    Well yes. I have always supported a class based on Sylvanas' HotS incarnation.

    Except we received Brewmasters (well, Monks) before we saw that Lore. Now we've seen and experienced that lore. And there wasn't any lore connecting Brewmasters to a Monk class before it happened. I don't see why that couldn't be the same with Lorewalkers and a Bard class.
    Actually if you check out Warcraft RPG the Brewmaster was heavily tied to the concept of martial arts long before MoP.
    My comic series inspired by WoW and MMOs:

    Tinker Class Concept 2018 Dragonsworn Class Concept 2019

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