1. #501
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    I never said you shouldn't enjoy the Dark Ranger concept, I simply said that the Hunter class covers it because Dark Rangers are just Forsaken Hunters. You can play as a Forsaken or Void Elf Hunter and even tame some dark creature as a pet. What's the problem? You're not a Banshee? Neither are 99.9% of Dark Rangers in lore, so you're fine.

    You can't complete quests, dungeons, or raids (i.e. play the game) with profession items, so your argument fails.
    Nope. I'm telling you that you can just pick up engineering. That's all you need to be a tinker.

    But frankly, I'm just gonna go back to ignoring you since you lack the basic common concept of that people who want Dark Rangers don't have their needs fulfilled by playing hunter... yet that's all you say. Go play hunter, go play hunter.

    So again, just pick up engineering, BOOM... tinker. Come back when you actually show some effort in holding a discussion or conversation without being both ignorant and showing arrogance by telling others what they should be content with when at the same time you are twisting and turning when people do the same to you. Textbook example of a hypocrite.
    Try to show some basic understanding as of why people demand X class...
    Because Y class doesn't fucking satisfy their class fantasy. this is not rocket surgery, it's a simple concept yet you are showing great difficulties in understanding it.
    Last edited by Kumorii; 2019-10-10 at 02:27 PM.

  2. #502
    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    Nope. I'm telling you that you can just pick up engineering. That's all you need to be a tinker.

    But frankly, I'm just gonna go back to ignoring you since you lack the basic common concept of that people who want Dark Rangers don't have their needs fulfilled by playing hunter... yet that's all you say. Go play hunter, go play hunter.

    So again, just pick up engineering, BOOM... tinker. Come back when you actually show some effort in holding a discussion or conversation without being both ignorant and showing arrogance by telling others what they should be content with when at the same time you are twisting and turning when people do the same to you. Textbook example of a hypocrite.
    But, but, there's NOOOOO overlap between tinker and engineer!! /s

  3. #503
    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    Usually when people refer to which class fits to what race it has to do with cultural background and history of the arts the class brings. Scavenging in a desert with little technology is kind of the antithesis of what a Tinker is. Their curiosity would help them learn the craft, but if we use "they can learn it" as a metric for a class to fit a race then literally every class can fit any race. There's no reason why no race can't learn what another class knows. We know that's not the metric blizzard uses.
    Quote Originally Posted by StillMcfuu View Post
    Their whole motif is that of nomadic traders. Essentially gypsies. They use alchemy but never anything more technical than that. I don't think Tinker really fits their race at all.

    They are what you would get if you mixed the cunning of Goblins and the whimsical nature of Gnomes.
    They don't really share the technical proclivities of those 2 races, they'd prefer to sit around a camp fire and swap stories.
    I get what you both are saying and I don't necessarily disagree. More what I'm saying is that relative to other lore stretches/twists/clusterfucks that Blizzard has unleashed upon us for race/class combinations "Vulpera are adaptable so they would have a knack for learning tinkering!" would not be an unreasonable jump to anticipate, especially if Vulpera in 8.3 are followed immediately with Tinkers in 9.0. If that makes sense.

  4. #504
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyrlaan View Post
    It would be a lot better for the game if people didn't freak out over every little thing that only one faction gets or that is different for one faction.
    yes, you se how the alliance is feaking out saying they always get the end of the stick? im showing its not the case

  5. #505
    Quote Originally Posted by Mixxy View Post
    A Tinker would be more than just a vehicle. You could also have a wide assortment of deployable turrets, flying drones, spider mines, robots, shields, bombs and lasers.


    There have been a few quests where your character is turned into a tiger or a Treant. That doesn't invalidate Druids as a class
    What distinguishes druids etc from 'Tinkers' as a class concept is that there are imnportant priests, druids, mages, warriors, and so on, that have been important for the fate of the world. The odd one out with the classes so far are Monks.

    You already have most of that in the engineering profession. Explosives, blasters, turrets, rifles, exploding sheep, you have tech that makes you move faster, increases the damage you deal, teleports you, shrinks you, enlarges you, makes you fly... Hunters can have drones in the form of mechanic pets.

    Again, not saying it ain't happening. But people are so desperate to have it (like people were desperate for DHs and DKs because they were the coolest characters in WC3) that they start to be overzealous, and interpret way to much into a few NPCs and a hero from WC3.

    If we get a Tinker (and again, I'm not saying we are not), we would need an important Tinker for the story. Someone to rally behind, a focal point so to speak. Demon Hunters had Illidan, and the sotry behind them was the pursuit of the Legion. DKs had Arthas and the Scourge. Monks had the newly discovered Pandaria, Chen and Taran Zhu. Chen has been important for the Horde, and both Illidan and Arthas have severly altered the fate of Azeroth.

    What important Tinkers are there for the story? What's the angle to have Tinkers in the next add-on? Not playing down Mechatorques contribution, but overall, Tinkers have only been companions, have supported, but not lead.

    Sure, Blizz can just add them, but with all their focus on class fantasy, I doubt they'd just 'throw whatever class' into the mix with no ties to the story whatsoever. Chances are that whatever class comes next ties into the story of whatever the next add-on is.

    What we do have is one prominent she-elf in a leading capacity that wields death or void, mail armour and ranged weapons. There is also Xal'Atath, who's missing, and who, just throwing around ideas, has vanished for now to pursue her own agenda. Train a group of fighters to use the void against death, maybe?

    There's is plenty of seeds for both a void and a(nother) death themed class atm, while 'Tinkers' have nothing, except for 'just being there'. Mechagon doesn't influence the story. Mechatorque was a plot device.

    There would also be the question of 'where have they been so far?' The three classes that were added so far have not been present in the game, until the story gave us an excuse to feature them. What we call Tinkers, on the other hand, have been there from day one. What changed all of a sudden?

    We'll see in a few weeks anyway. Whatever they add, I hope they balance all classes properly this time.
    Last edited by Skulltaker; 2019-10-10 at 02:46 PM.

  6. #506
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post

    Only if Blizzard wants to kill the game via regurgitation.

    We have Blood Elves, Void Elves, Night Elves, and Nightborne Elves, yet you want ANOTHER elf race. This time, you want a Blood Elf with Blue eyes on the alliance.

    We have a Hunter class where one of their specs literally call them Rangers, yet you want another Hunter class that does..... pretty much the same thing the existing Hunter class does.

    Interesting take.
    it would make a total of 5 elf races, enough for another faction kek

  7. #507
    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    Usually when people refer to which class fits to what race it has to do with cultural background and history of the arts the class brings. Scavenging in a desert with little technology is kind of the antithesis of what a Tinker is. Their curiosity would help them learn the craft, but if we use "they can learn it" as a metric for a class to fit a race then literally every class can fit any race. There's no reason why no race can't learn what another class knows. We know that's not the metric blizzard uses.
    The Monk class is entirely based on this concept, that almost anyone can learn it, which is why nearly every race can be one.

    Given that a Tinker is really just learning how to make stuff and then using that stuff to fight things, there's no reason the concept wouldn't work considering everyone can pick up Engineering now. Same idea, but now the stuff you make is used to fight and kill stuff and are tied to abilities.

    Conceptually, learning how to build things is less "out there" than learning how to be a Druid, Shaman, Priest or Mage (or any other magic wielding class)...which canonically are said to take YEARS to master.

    I get what point you're trying to make, but there's already a precedent for races being able to "just learn it" and what kinds of things certain races are just averse to trying with some exceptions.

  8. #508
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Kami Dende View Post
    Outside of the same like 30 People I see keep bringing it up on MMO-C, I've quite literally never seen anyone else even care or mention Tinkers in my 15years of playing WoW
    Then you haven't looked hard enough.

  9. #509
    Quote Originally Posted by Bennett View Post
    Tinkers are like the only original class idea left, everything else already exists in something else. Deal with it
    Dark ranger was a warcraft 3 hero unit. Just like demon hunter and death knight.

    Argument become weaker by the day.. but honestly tinkers suck and werent even part of the main units.
    Not that this is anything go by 100%, but tinkers come afther dark ranger, shadow hunter or warden in terms of prio and story.. did you see how much hate mechagnomes got? Blizz would be foolish to go even deeper in that. Most people want magic snd dragons not some gogogadgetmidgets.

    The tinker fansclub are like 5 people who keep spamming the threads.. I mean most consider them the new high elves, hated more and more with every day. You dont want to be part of that >.>
    Last edited by Alanar; 2019-10-10 at 02:59 PM.

  10. #510
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skulltaker View Post
    So, by that logic, no class exists, because if you die trying, it doesn't count? The potential is there.
    That isn't my logic. My logic is that a profession is not the same as a class, cannot perform a class' roles, and cannot take the place of a class. That is an extremely simple concept that you and @Kumorii can't seem to grasp.

    And, excuse me, what? Alchemists cannot create rage- or healing potions? Transmute stuff? That's kind of news to me.
    Feel free to show me the Alchemist abilities of Healing Spray, Chemical Rage, Acid Bomb, and Transmute within the Alchemist profession.

    The basis for the Hunter is the 'Ranger' class from Dungeons and Dragons. Traps and Bombs didn't use to be exclusive to survival hunters, nor their inablility to use ranged attacks. Nothing ensures that this will stay the same. Also, last I checked, MM hunters still could take explosive shot.
    Yet they are, and having explosive shot surrounded by animal-based and archer-based abilities doesn't have much to do with a Tinker.

    And Mech piloting is only a core attribute of the Tinker class because you made up a Tinker class that pilots mechs to begin with. It doesn't exist ingame (so far). There is not a single refference to a Tinker class like that anywhere. All you have is some gnomes, goblins and draenai piloting mechs at various occasions, and they don't adhere to a unified skillset or even name. Blackfuse, for example, is an engineer.
    Try Gelbin Mekkatorque. He is a Tinker and pilots a mech. Next up try Gazlowe, who also pilots a mech and leads a Tinker team. When you're finished looking them up, feel free to reference back to the WC3 Tinker whose ultimate ability was the ability to pilot a mech. The reason I attach mech piloting to the Tinker is largely because Blizzard has always attached the ultimate abilities of the WC3 hero to its corresponding class. The Tinker should be no different, and that means that the Tinker WILL be based around mech piloting.
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  11. #511
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Then you haven't looked hard enough.
    Hes right tho.

  12. #512
    Quote Originally Posted by Golden Yak View Post
    More like gladly looking.
    This. Wardens sound really boring TBH. Like, one of the most boring choices I've heard discussed so far, and that's saying something...

    That said, I'd love to see warden armor/weapon available for other classes. More than just demon hunters should be able to use glaives.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Alanar View Post
    Hes right tho.
    He's not right tho.

    People obsess over a class they really want and then all other arguments suddenly sound irrelevant and you only notice what you want to notice.

  13. #513
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    That isn't my logic. My logic is that a profession is not the same as a class, cannot perform a class' roles, and cannot take the place of a class. That is an extremely simple concept that you and @Kumorii can't seem to grasp.

    Feel free to show me the Alchemist abilities of Healing Spray, Chemical Rage, Acid Bomb, and Transmute within the Alchemist profession.

    Yet they are, and having explosive shot surrounded by animal-based and archer-based abilities doesn't have much to do with a Tinker.

    Try Gelbin Mekkatorque. He is a Tinker and pilots a mech. Next up try Gazlowe, who also pilots a mech and leads a Tinker team. When you're finished looking them up, feel free to reference back to the WC3 Tinker whose ultimate ability was the ability to pilot a mech. The reason I attach mech piloting to the Tinker is largely because Blizzard has always attached the ultimate abilities of the WC3 hero to its corresponding class. The Tinker should be no different, and that means that the Tinker WILL be based around mech piloting.
    And I agree with that, but I have yet to see any realy argument why the Tinker is a class to begin with, aside from "I want it to be." What makes it different from the Alchemist? Why does engineering have to be turned into a class? One of the Heros is a Pit Lord. Is that a class, too? What makes Tinker a Class? There is 0 indication for it, and therefor, there also is no need to be able to do all content you want to do.

    You want it to be a class, sure, fine with me. But please don't pull arguments for it already being in game out of your butt. Because it isn't. Nothing in game hints towards Tinkers having the same status as 'classes' like Mages, Druids and so on.

    And again, you're putting to much focus on names. An Alchemist uses potions to heal, transmute and deal damage, aswell as buff himself. Every Alchemist can do the same. Just because there is (so far) no alchemist skill that doesn't do exactly the same as the hero in WC3 doesn't mean that it's not still the same thing, aside from in your head.

    Source on Mechatorque being a Tinker by class, please. Same for Gazlowe. Just because you want them to be doesn't make it so, man.

    The WC3 Tinker is a Hero, not a Class, same as the Alchemist, the Sea Witch or the Pit Lord. As it currently stands he's a dude who picked up engineering, and that is it. No class whatsoever.
    Last edited by Skulltaker; 2019-10-10 at 03:12 PM.

  14. #514
    Quote Originally Posted by therealbowser View Post
    This. Wardens sound really boring TBH. Like, one of the most boring choices I've heard discussed so far, and that's saying something...

    That said, I'd love to see warden armor/weapon available for other classes. More than just demon hunters should be able to use glaives.

    - - - Updated - - -



    He's not right tho.

    People obsess over a class they really want and then all other arguments suddenly sound irrelevant and you only notice what you want to notice.
    What do you mean? Red part.

    Uhm yea could be, but in this case.. No, i havr been lurking here for a long time and love class thread (back then)
    Tinker was always the one where maybe 3 people liked it but most just wanted the classes that felt more wow/magic based if you will.
    So no Hes right imo.

  15. #515
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    The Monk class is entirely based on this concept, that almost anyone can learn it, which is why nearly every race can be one.

    Given that a Tinker is really just learning how to make stuff and then using that stuff to fight things, there's no reason the concept wouldn't work considering everyone can pick up Engineering now. Same idea, but now the stuff you make is used to fight and kill stuff and are tied to abilities.

    Conceptually, learning how to build things is less "out there" than learning how to be a Druid, Shaman, Priest or Mage (or any other magic wielding class)...which canonically are said to take YEARS to master.

    I get what point you're trying to make, but there's already a precedent for races being able to "just learn it" and what kinds of things certain races are just averse to trying with some exceptions.
    Ofc, It can be spun that way... I just find it to be a cop out and it sort of brings some class / race identity if the classes they can be somehow coincides with their history and cultures of that specific race matches.

    As an example, gnomes and goblins are a dead giveaway to be tinkers, why? Because they have a history of it and much of their race identity lies with engineering and gadgets. It enhances both their race and the class if there are some rules like that put into place instead of everyone can be everything.

    Monks however is a special case, the entire expansion were built around learning about pandas culture and the land of pandaria. We were there as guests to learn, in which monk martial arts where a big part of their culture. They made that everyone can learn it and tied into it with the expansion and the nature of pandarians of being accepting and embracing. Teaching was part of pandarian culture and the monk class.

    Tinkering doesn't have teaching tied into their culture and lore in the same manner. Not saying they aren't teaching since every single class have teachers, but some have it connected to them more so and others.

    They can go that route, I hope they don't and instead tie it to races that have shown to be technological advanced in that regard.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    That isn't my logic. My logic is that a profession is not the same as a class, cannot perform a class' roles, and cannot take the place of a class. That is an extremely simple concept that you and @Kumorii can't seem to grasp.
    Oh don't get me wrong. I grasp it, I've demonstrated it as such multiple times by even in this thread.
    It's ironic how you say that I don't grasp it when i'm using it as a satirical way to show that you tell others that they should have their class fantasy fulfilled by playing a class you tell them to play.

    You know, exact same thing i'm doing when I say you can fulfil your tinker fantasy by picking up engineering. It has nothing to do with professions and classes and has everything to do with the fact that you have the arrogance and gall to tell others what they should enjoy and do to fulfil their class fantasy.

    If you can tell others what they should do, I can tell you what you should do. Which is picking up engineering and boom, tinker fulfilled.
    If I can't tell you what you should do, then you can't tell me or any other person what they should do to satisfy their class fantasy.
    Drop the arrogance. Start understanding that people demand X class because Y class doesn't fulfil their class fantasy.
    Last edited by Kumorii; 2019-10-10 at 03:29 PM.

  16. #516
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skulltaker View Post
    And I agree with that, but I have yet to see any realy argument why the Tinker is a class to begin with, aside from "I want it to be." What makes it different from the Alchemist? Why does engineering have to be turned into a class? One of the Heros is a Pit Lord. Is that a class, too? What makes Tinker a Class? There is 0 indication for it, and therefor, there also is no need to be able to do all content you want to do.
    1. It isn't based on the Engineering profession. It is based on the Tinker hero from WC3, just like DKs, Monks, and DHs before it.
    2. Gnomes, Goblins, and now Mechagnomes have no class that reflects their unique racial lore.
    3. There is no class that represents the technology found in WoW.
    4. The majority of the Pitlord's abilities wound up in the Warlock class (Rain of Fire, Howl of Terror, Doom).
    5. As shown by Blizzard, the Tinker is an inventor who builds advanced machines and uses them in combat. Mekkatorque and Blackfuse are prime examples of this type of character. An extension of this concept is Dr. Boom in Hearthstone, though that version isn't canon;



    You want it to be a class, sure, fine with me. But please don't pull arguments for it already being in game out of your butt. Because it isn't. Nothing in game hints towards Tinkers having the same status as 'classes' like Mages, Druids and so on.
    Nothing except the various examples of Goblins and Gnomes using technology and piloting mechs. Nothing but the HotS Tinker's abilities entering WoW. Nothing but a flood of new tech-based art assets used for Mechagon when Nazjatar was largely reused assets. Nothing but Gazlowe the Tinker hero from HotS getting more and more lore added onto him and perhaps even becoming the Goblin leader, which would mean a Tinker heads both Gnome and Goblin factions. Nothing but the WC3 Tinker floating around with open abilities and the same pedigree as previous expansion classes.

    And again, you're putting to much focus on names. An Alchemist uses potions to heal, transmute and deal damage, aswell as buff himself. Every Alchemist can do the same. Just because there is (so far) no alchemist skill that doesn't do exactly the same as the hero in WC3 doesn't mean that it's not still the same thing, aside from in your head.
    In other words the Alchemist abilities don't exist in the Alchemy profession. Thanks for the confirmation.

    Source on Mechatorque being a Tinker by class, please. Same for Gazlowe. Just because you want them to be doesn't make it so, man.
    https://wow.gamepedia.com/Gelbin_Mekkatorque
    https://heroesofthestorm.gamepedia.com/Gazlowe

    The WC3 Tinker is a Hero, not a Class, same as the Alchemist, the Sea Witch or the Pit Lord. As it currently stands he's a dude who picked up engineering, and that is it. No class whatsoever.
    The Sea Witch's abilities are in the Hunter, Mage, and Shaman class. The Pit Lord's abilities are in the Warlock class. There's a high chance that the Alchemist hero's abilities will end up in the Tinker class' healing spec.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Alanar View Post
    The tinker fansclub are like 5 people who keep spamming the threads.. I mean most consider them the new high elves, hated more and more with every day. You dont want to be part of that >.>
    Yeah, there's only 5 tinker fans on this forum;

    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...W-class-in-9-0
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  17. #517
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    Tinkers should be like monks - available for all races through learning from someone else.
    I mean, none of races (except Pandas) have any lore or cultural background for becoming monks. And yet pandas teach all races monk stuff.
    Tinkers could become a common thing for all races, especially after azerite-fuel "industrial revolution". If all races can learn Engineering - all races should be able to learn how to be a Tinker.

  18. #518
    Im still standing by the point that they wouldnt add a race like Mechagnome (or Vulpera) if they wouldnt go for a Tinker Class next expansion.

    They had all the time in the World to add more races with this Expansion and get people more used to a "Tinker" Class, which fights in mechs and uses offensive gadgets.

    And the reason we didnt get a class this expansion could be because of two things:

    1. They werent ready yet at all. I dont know how long Blizzard needs to create new classes, but I definitely think it takes atleast 1+ year. (if we go by my mindset that they work on a new class only after they have released their current w.i.p.)

    2. They wanted to save it for 9.0 so they could make it overall a bigger selling expansion. I think they plan their Expansions far more ahead that they know which expansion is a bit on the weaker side so the next one can be a bigger boom on the playerbase. A new class in BfA wouldnt have made it any better, but it would help a lot in 9.0, especially in a world revamp when the class starts at level 1.
    Last edited by High Tinker Buliwyf; 2019-10-10 at 04:04 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    It just sounded ominous as if he would save that info for future use to something, that's all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shandalar View Post
    Next class is Necromancer. Tinker will never happen.

    You read first here.
    Oh yeah?

  19. #519
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    Quote Originally Posted by High Tinker Buliwyf View Post

    And the reason we didnt get a class this expansion could be because of two things:
    There is only one reason - they add new class every second expansion. This is their general rule.

  20. #520
    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    Ofc, It can be spun that way... I just find it to be a cop out and it sort of brings some class / race identity if the classes they can be somehow coincides with their history and cultures of that specific race matches.

    As an example, gnomes and goblins are a dead giveaway to be tinkers, why? Because they have a history of it and much of their race identity lies with engineering and gadgets. It enhances both their race and the class if there are some rules like that put into place instead of everyone can be everything.

    Monks however is a special case, the entire expansion were built around learning about pandas culture and the land of pandaria. We were there as guests to learn, in which monk martial arts where a big part of their culture. They made that everyone can learn it and tied into it with the expansion and the nature of pandarians of being accepting and embracing. Teaching was part of pandarian culture and the monk class.
    While true, the expansion started with all the races that could be Monks, able to be Monks before they ever actually made it to Pandaria, they weren't unlocked half way through the expansion after footholds had been made and connections between Pandaria and the Horde and Alliance existed, we just all of a sudden had Orc and Human (and all others) Monks running around in Durotar and Elwynn forest.

    The class was clearly catered towards Pandaren, but they shared that knowledge with the other races.

    Tinkering doesn't have teaching tied into their culture and lore in the same manner. Not saying they aren't teaching since every single class have teachers, but some have it connected to them more so and others.

    They can go that route, I hope they don't and instead tie it to races that have shown to be technological advanced in that regard.
    How many quests have we had over the years where a piece of Gnomish or Goblin tech was handed to someone to use to go do something? There's a TON of quests where the Tinker-ish races proudly share their knowledge and tech with the other races in order to further their interests and accomplish their goals.

    Why would it be any different for the knowledge needed to make it a bonafide class?

    Sure, the class is clearly catered towards the Gnomes, Goblins, and Mechagnomes (I agree with the idea that Vulpera would make good Tinkers but their current life style of being scavenging nomad gypsies means they're not Tinkers NOW) but that doesn't mean the knowledge that completely saturates their culture couldn't be taught to the other races.

    I agree that the benevolent, giving and knowledge sharing culture of the Pandaren lends itself quite well to the sharing of the knowledge required for the Monk class, but there's still a LOT of knowledge sharing in the entrepreneurial, industrial and profiteering (more Goblin here, than Gnome) culture that the Gnomes and Goblins have. Just because the spirit of the knowledge sharing is different doesn't mean there's less of it.

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