new forsaken leader spoilers

[Kokolums]

Blizz is demonstrating they learned nothing from the complaints regarding Kael'thas and Illidan in BC. People hated that they turned both into villains because they were interesting characters and it felt like we were losing them for no reason. People hate Lore'themar Theron because he is boring. Yet here we are, taking the most interesting faction leader and turning them into a villain and replacing her with a boring leader.

Here's a hint Blizz: create interesting characters and torture them for 300 pages. THAT is good writing. Deleting all your interesting characters by turning them into villains and killing them off or removing them and then replacing them with a bunch of boring characters SUCKS as storytelling.

[Zulkhan]

Regarding Calia, I would say that I don't think she's destined to fail but, unless Blizzard intends to make it "easy peasy it'll be easy", it should be a controversial and complicated process. One thing to say is, the Forsaken owed a lot to Sylvanas but there is no doubt over how much self-serving the character was and how hard she always feasted on the Forsaken's worst impulses, first to ensure they would have sharpened their hatred against Arthas and then to make sure they would have continued to be her "bulwark against the infinite" by feeding their hatred and distrust for the living. Because of that, Sylvanas wasn't a good leader for the Forsaken and I never, ever thought she was.

That being said, Calia looks a lot like the other extreme of the spectrum: the Menethil name could be viewed with nostalgia by some but also as a stigma for others; Calia's more genuine behavior could be way more beneficial compared to Sylvanas' die-hard cynism, but at the same time her undead status it's so unusual and weird that many Forsaken could find themselves uncapable to properly relate and sympathize. Plus, the Forsaken have plenty of borderline horrible people and Voss herself admitted that many of them still love Sylvanas (obviously). Popping out of nowhere and say "I'm the new queen bois" could be perceived as an unintillegible move for them.

[Eldar45]

I guess with this the Forsaken are gone and reborn is the Kingdom (Queendom?) of Lordaeron.

[ClassicIsTerrible]

Voss I can almost understand (she's been part of the forsaken lore for a bit via the starting zone, horde rogue order hall, and the war campaign), but if they force Calia, who has zero connection to the forsaken, down our throats I am done with this game. Light undead are the antithesis of the forsaken.

How the hell does she have zero connection to the Forsaken? 90% of the Forsaken are citizens of Lordaeron, her people. She is the rightful Queen of Lordaeron. But talk out of your ass, I guess.

[Traveler Voltin]

How the hell does she have zero connection to the Forsaken? 90% of the Forsaken are citizens of Lordaeron, her people. She is the rightful Queen of Lordaeron. But talk out of your ass, I guess.

she doesnt understand anything about the forsaken.
She is not the rightful ruler. technically it would be kel'thuzad based of when Arthas gave him the kingdom or Sylvanas based on right of conquest.

[qwerty123456]

Forsaken get a leader that actually cares about them, people still mad


Amazing

And whats funnier is that she is the legit ruler of Lordaeron and many of the Forsaken wanted her back.

she doesnt understand anything about the forsaken.
She is not the rightful ruler. technically it would be kel'thuzad based of when Arthas gave him the kingdom or Sylvanas based on right of conquest.

She was hunted by scourge, constantly in fear of her life and never being able to see her family again. Shunned for being the sister of Arthas and was attacked (and killed) because people feared her without truely knowing her which is exactly what happens to forsaken.

[Traveler Voltin]

And whats funnier is that she is the legit ruler of Lordaeron and many of the Forsaken wanted her back.


She was hunted by scourge, constantly in fear of her life and never being able to see her family again. Shunned for being the sister of Arthas and was attacked (and killed) because people feared her without truely knowing her which is exactly what happens to forsaken.

do you play alliance by chance?

[Friendlyimmolation]

How the hell does she have zero connection to the Forsaken? 90% of the Forsaken are citizens of Lordaeron, her people. She is the rightful Queen of Lordaeron. But talk out of your ass, I guess.

Because she relates in no way to the Forsaken outside of being the daughter of the King who was murdered by the same dude who killed most of them?

Because she went through none of their hardships and now has a form of undeath that carries none of the side effects or downsides of the Forsaken? Hell becoming lightforged undead made her even more detached from the average Forsaken.

[qwerty123456]

do you play alliance by chance?

I play both factions and have since vanilla.

[Friendlyimmolation]

And whats funnier is that she is the legit ruler of Lordaeron and many of the Forsaken wanted her back.

what, three max is many?

She was hunted by scourge, constantly in fear of her life and never being able to see her family again. Shunned for being the sister of Arthas and was attacked (and killed) because people feared her without truely knowing her which is exactly what happens to forsaken.

"My life was very hard, you have no idea" says the tragic princess to a bunch of living corpses.

[Super Dickmann]

She was hunted by scourge, constantly in fear of her life and never being able to see her family again. Shunned for being the sister of Arthas and was attacked (and killed) because people feared her without truely knowing her which is exactly what happens to forsaken.

I'm sure that hiding out in villages getting railed by footmen to spite her dad is exactly the same as being raised into an ugly piece of shit with reduced emotions, being hunted down by those around you and having to fight for it every step of the way, with your own religion turning its back on you instead of giving you a super special new form so you don't have to give anything up.

[Traveler Voltin]

I play both factions and have since vanilla.

how sad that you dont understand the forsaken at all then. you sound like golden who didnt understand the forsaken until she started to retcon them

[qwerty123456]

I'm sure that hiding out in villages getting railed by footmen to spite her dad is exactly the same as being raised into an ugly piece of shit with reduced emotions, being hunted down by those around you and having to fight for it every step of the way, with your own religion turning its back on you instead of giving you a super special new form so you don't have to give anything up.

Not everyone turned their back on the forsaken. Calia realized pretty much from the start of their existence there was some good undead.

how sad that you dont understand the forsaken at all then. you sound like golden who didnt understand the forsaken until she started to retcon them

Have you played a forsaken since vanilla? And when where you complaining about Sylvanas not being a true forsaken? Calia is sylvanas 2.0

what, three max is many?




"My life was very hard, you have no idea" says the tragic princess to a bunch of living corpses.

A ton more then 3. And its funny how you are pro Sylvanas killing everyone who disagrees with her and now you are upset when a new leader who hasn't killed her dissenters (yet) shows up. Sylvanas was a sexy elf banshee who could convert her body to ghost form and yet I don't see people like you bitching how she wasn't a true forsaken. Calia is almost completely Sylvanas 2.0 who only happened to have most of the bad shit happened to her while alive instead of her undeath and yet you people are crying that she isn't a true forsaken when the forsaken have never been lead by a true forsaken. Fleeing from ghouls and shit isn't hard?

[Traveler Voltin]

Not everyone turned their back on the forsaken. Calia realized pretty much from the start of their existence there was some good undead.




A ton more then 3. And its funny how you are pro Sylvanas killing everyone who disagrees with her and now you are upset when a new leader who hasn't killed her dissenters (yet) shows up. Sylvanas was a sexy elf banshee who could convert her body to ghost form and yet I don't see people like you bitching how she wasn't a true forsaken. Calia is almost completely Sylvanas 2.0 who only happened to have most of the bad shit happened to her while alive instead of her undeath and yet you people are crying that she isn't a true forsaken when the forsaken have never been lead by a true forsaken. Fleeing from ghouls and shit isn't hard?

of course Sylvanas was forsaken. she created the faction.

[qwerty123456]

of course Sylvanas was forsaken. she created the faction.

So killing any returned undead who don't want to side with you is what it means to be forsaken? And creating a faction doesn't make you one. A king can order the formation of some knights under his command. It doesn't make him a knight the experiences of being a knight are what makes him one. Exactly what you are claiming against Calia which also works against Sylvanas.

Have you been forsaken since vanilla? Because what being a forsaken is has changed several times now in wow.

[Traveler Voltin]

So killing any returned undead who don't want to side with you is what it means to be forsaken? And creating a faction doesn't make you one. A king can order the formation of some knights under his command. It doesn't make him a knight the experiences of being a knight are what makes him one. Exactly what you are claiming against Calia which also works against Sylvanas.

Have you been forsaken since vanilla? Because what being a forsaken is has changed several times now in wow.

here we go down this rabbit hole.
as long as you dont become a problem for the forsaken you can do whatever you want if you are raised. you can screw off and do almost whatever

[Friendlyimmolation]

A ton more then 3.

This is where I ask for proof.

And its funny how you are pro Sylvanas killing everyone who disagrees with her and now you are upset when a new leader who hasn't killed her dissenters (yet) shows up.

I'm annoyed that leader composed of sunshine and hugs who stared in the same novel that attempted sweeping retcons to Forsaken culture just in an attempt to make Calia at all swallow-able as a leader (which failed) is now set up to be a leader that doesn't relate and doesn't identify with the Forsaken Identity at all.

Sylvanas was a sexy elf banshee who could convert her body to ghost form and yet I don't see people like you bitching how she wasn't a true forsaken.

I mean christ have you ever even played a Forsaken or bothered to spend two minutes watching Warcraft 3 frozen throne cut scenes? Sylvanas fucking CREATED the Forsaken.

Calia is almost completely Sylvanas 2.0 who only happened to have most of the bad shit happened to her while alive instead of her undeath

Calia went through absolutely zero hardships the Forsaken did while she was alive, and even in undeath she doesn't She's a lightforged undead with zero of their downsides,and is somehow more saccharine now than she was in life.

and yet you people are crying that she isn't a true forsaken when the forsaken have never been lead by a true forsaken. Fleeing from ghouls and shit isn't hard?

The fact that you can't understand or just simply are doubling down on fake ignorance makes your entire argument one from bad faith. If Sylvanas isn't a true Forsaken Calia sure as hell isn't.

Fucking a footman and then running away from zombies AND surviving isn't hard. Having your will stripped away, stuffed back into your own necromantic corpse only to eventually get your will back and to form a kingdom against a world that hate you is.

Calia never went through their struggles, does not understand them, and thinks the soul crushing magic that dampens their positive emotions can be cured with rainbows and kisses.

[qwerty123456]

here we go down this rabbit hole.
as long as you dont become a problem for the forsaken you can do whatever you want if you are raised. you can screw off and do almost whatever

So Sylvanas didn't just slaughter a bunch of Forsaken recently? Also you never mentioned anything about the other stuff I wrote.

This is where I ask for proof.




I'm annoyed that leader composed of sunshine and hugs who stared in the same novel that attempted sweeping retcons to Forsaken culture just in an attempt to make Calia at all swallow-able as a leader (which failed) is now set up to be a leader that doesn't relate and doesn't identify with the Forsaken Identity at all.



I mean christ have you ever even played a Forsaken or bothered to spend two minutes watching Warcraft 3 frozen throne cut scenes? Sylvanas fucking CREATED the Forsaken.


Calia went through absolutely zero hardships the Forsaken did while she was alive, and even in undeath she doesn't She's a lightforged undead with zero of their downsides,and is somehow more saccharine now than she was in life.



The fact that you can't understand or just simply are doubling down on fake ignorance makes your entire argument one from bad faith. If Sylvanas isn't a true Forsaken Calia sure as hell isn't.

Fucking a footman and then running away from zombies AND surviving isn't hard. Having your will stripped away, stuffed back into your own necromantic corpse only to eventually get your will back and to form a kingdom against a world that hate you is.

Calia never went through their struggles, does not understand them, and thinks the soul crushing magic that dampens their positive emotions can be cured with rainbows and kisses.

Just FYI I hate the idea of lightforged undead. I'm just pointing out that people who were fine with Sylvanas not even remotely having the experiences of a normal forsaken and having looks and abilites beyond them while also being worshiped instead of shunned is nowhere near what a forsaken is. The Forsaken have never truly had a forsaken leader except maybe for like 2 seconds when they tried and formed a council. Just because she created the faction doesn't make her a forsaken look at my previous post for clarification.

Also don't forget that many of the new whispers seem to be refences to Calia so its likely she wont even last long as a leader. And if she doesn't go the villain route then its likely blizzard creating a new way for forsaken to exist now that Sylvanas has fled.

[Friendlyimmolation]

So killing any returned undead who don't want to side with you is what it means to be forsaken? And creating a faction doesn't make you one. A king can order the formation of some knights under his command. It doesn't make him a knight the experiences of being a knight are what makes him one. Exactly what you are claiming against Calia which also works against Sylvanas.

Have you been forsaken since vanilla? Because what being a forsaken is has changed several times now in wow.

Best not to ask questions when you yourself have the answer wrong.

Sylvanas went through the same damn things the Forsaken went through, the faction she herself created, a kingdom of freewilled undead intending to have revenge and carve out their own destiny, even now Sylvanas is still Forsaken.

- - - Updated - - -

So Sylvanas didn't just slaughter a bunch of Forsaken recently? Also you never mentioned anything about the other stuff I wrote.

The forsaken have killed Forsaken who have left or who have been accused of weakness since Vanilla.

Remember the blood stone quests? Killing the Apothecary in the sludge fields? The execution of Forsaken who were captured in the Dragonblight quests?

[Traveler Voltin]

So Sylvanas didn't just slaughter a bunch of Forsaken recently? Also you never mentioned anything about the other stuff I wrote.

you mean the idiots that tried to side with calia and the alliance?
or the idiot who helped Baine back stab the horde?