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  1. #601
    The Insane General Zanjin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    So killing any returned undead who don't want to side with you is what it means to be forsaken? And creating a faction doesn't make you one. A king can order the formation of some knights under his command. It doesn't make him a knight the experiences of being a knight are what makes him one. Exactly what you are claiming against Calia which also works against Sylvanas.

    Have you been forsaken since vanilla? Because what being a forsaken is has changed several times now in wow.
    here we go down this rabbit hole.
    as long as you dont become a problem for the forsaken you can do whatever you want if you are raised. you can screw off and do almost whatever
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  2. #602
    The Unstoppable Force Friendlyimmolation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    A ton more then 3.
    This is where I ask for proof.


    And its funny how you are pro Sylvanas killing everyone who disagrees with her and now you are upset when a new leader who hasn't killed her dissenters (yet) shows up.
    I'm annoyed that leader composed of sunshine and hugs who stared in the same novel that attempted sweeping retcons to Forsaken culture just in an attempt to make Calia at all swallow-able as a leader (which failed) is now set up to be a leader that doesn't relate and doesn't identify with the Forsaken Identity at all.

    Sylvanas was a sexy elf banshee who could convert her body to ghost form and yet I don't see people like you bitching how she wasn't a true forsaken.
    I mean christ have you ever even played a Forsaken or bothered to spend two minutes watching Warcraft 3 frozen throne cut scenes? Sylvanas fucking CREATED the Forsaken.

    Calia is almost completely Sylvanas 2.0 who only happened to have most of the bad shit happened to her while alive instead of her undeath
    Calia went through absolutely zero hardships the Forsaken did while she was alive, and even in undeath she doesn't She's a lightforged undead with zero of their downsides,and is somehow more saccharine now than she was in life.

    and yet you people are crying that she isn't a true forsaken when the forsaken have never been lead by a true forsaken. Fleeing from ghouls and shit isn't hard?
    The fact that you can't understand or just simply are doubling down on fake ignorance makes your entire argument one from bad faith. If Sylvanas isn't a true Forsaken Calia sure as hell isn't.

    Fucking a footman and then running away from zombies AND surviving isn't hard. Having your will stripped away, stuffed back into your own necromantic corpse only to eventually get your will back and to form a kingdom against a world that hate you is.

    Calia never went through their struggles, does not understand them, and thinks the soul crushing magic that dampens their positive emotions can be cured with rainbows and kisses.
    Quote Originally Posted by WoWKnight65 View Post
    That's same excuse from you and so many others on this website and your right some of threads do bully high elf fans to a point where they might end up losing their minds to a point of a mass shooting.
    Holy shit lol

  3. #603
    Quote Originally Posted by General Zanjin View Post
    here we go down this rabbit hole.
    as long as you dont become a problem for the forsaken you can do whatever you want if you are raised. you can screw off and do almost whatever
    So Sylvanas didn't just slaughter a bunch of Forsaken recently? Also you never mentioned anything about the other stuff I wrote.

    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    This is where I ask for proof.




    I'm annoyed that leader composed of sunshine and hugs who stared in the same novel that attempted sweeping retcons to Forsaken culture just in an attempt to make Calia at all swallow-able as a leader (which failed) is now set up to be a leader that doesn't relate and doesn't identify with the Forsaken Identity at all.



    I mean christ have you ever even played a Forsaken or bothered to spend two minutes watching Warcraft 3 frozen throne cut scenes? Sylvanas fucking CREATED the Forsaken.


    Calia went through absolutely zero hardships the Forsaken did while she was alive, and even in undeath she doesn't She's a lightforged undead with zero of their downsides,and is somehow more saccharine now than she was in life.



    The fact that you can't understand or just simply are doubling down on fake ignorance makes your entire argument one from bad faith. If Sylvanas isn't a true Forsaken Calia sure as hell isn't.

    Fucking a footman and then running away from zombies AND surviving isn't hard. Having your will stripped away, stuffed back into your own necromantic corpse only to eventually get your will back and to form a kingdom against a world that hate you is.

    Calia never went through their struggles, does not understand them, and thinks the soul crushing magic that dampens their positive emotions can be cured with rainbows and kisses.

    Just FYI I hate the idea of lightforged undead. I'm just pointing out that people who were fine with Sylvanas not even remotely having the experiences of a normal forsaken and having looks and abilites beyond them while also being worshiped instead of shunned is nowhere near what a forsaken is. The Forsaken have never truly had a forsaken leader except maybe for like 2 seconds when they tried and formed a council. Just because she created the faction doesn't make her a forsaken look at my previous post for clarification.

    Also don't forget that many of the new whispers seem to be refences to Calia so its likely she wont even last long as a leader. And if she doesn't go the villain route then its likely blizzard creating a new way for forsaken to exist now that Sylvanas has fled.
    Last edited by qwerty123456; 2019-10-12 at 05:54 PM.

  4. #604
    The Unstoppable Force Friendlyimmolation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    So killing any returned undead who don't want to side with you is what it means to be forsaken? And creating a faction doesn't make you one. A king can order the formation of some knights under his command. It doesn't make him a knight the experiences of being a knight are what makes him one. Exactly what you are claiming against Calia which also works against Sylvanas.

    Have you been forsaken since vanilla? Because what being a forsaken is has changed several times now in wow.
    Best not to ask questions when you yourself have the answer wrong.

    Sylvanas went through the same damn things the Forsaken went through, the faction she herself created, a kingdom of freewilled undead intending to have revenge and carve out their own destiny, even now Sylvanas is still Forsaken.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    So Sylvanas didn't just slaughter a bunch of Forsaken recently? Also you never mentioned anything about the other stuff I wrote.
    The forsaken have killed Forsaken who have left or who have been accused of weakness since Vanilla.

    Remember the blood stone quests? Killing the Apothecary in the sludge fields? The execution of Forsaken who were captured in the Dragonblight quests?
    Last edited by Friendlyimmolation; 2019-10-12 at 06:00 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by WoWKnight65 View Post
    That's same excuse from you and so many others on this website and your right some of threads do bully high elf fans to a point where they might end up losing their minds to a point of a mass shooting.
    Holy shit lol

  5. #605
    The Insane General Zanjin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    So Sylvanas didn't just slaughter a bunch of Forsaken recently? Also you never mentioned anything about the other stuff I wrote.
    you mean the idiots that tried to side with calia and the alliance?
    or the idiot who helped Baine back stab the horde?
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  6. #606
    Quote Originally Posted by ClassicIsTerrible View Post
    How the hell does she have zero connection to the Forsaken? 90% of the Forsaken are citizens of Lordaeron, her people. She is the rightful Queen of Lordaeron. But talk out of your ass, I guess.
    I think that % is off post cata after Forsaken were going around assimilating gilneans, altaraci, residents of stromguard and other northern EK groups. Then there's also the fact that Calia might have been an heir to lordaeron, but we're not discussing Lordaeron anymore. much like constantinople, lordaeron's been a long time gone.

  7. #607
    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    Best not to ask questions when you yourself have the answer wrong.

    Sylvanas went through the same damn things the Forsaken went through, the faction she herself created, a kingdom of freewilled undead intending to have revenge and carve out their own destiny, even now Sylvanas is still Forsaken.

    - - - Updated - - -



    The forsaken have killed Forsaken who have left or who have been accused of weakness since Vanilla.
    What question do I have wrong?

    Check my previous posts for clarification. Sylvanas went through different experiences with some being similar. Again you can create a faction and not truly be a part of it.
    Does being a hockey team owner make you a hockey player? Does being worshiped sound like something that happens to normal forsaken? Does going against the freewill part of Forsaken make you forsaken?

    Quote Originally Posted by General Zanjin View Post
    you mean the idiots that tried to side with calia and the alliance?
    or the idiot who helped Baine back stab the horde?
    Check my previous posts for clarifications.
    Backstab the Horde or just Sylvanas? She went against everything the forsaken are first by raising members of the horde as mindless undead and trying to remove freewill from others.

  8. #608
    The Insane General Zanjin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    What question do I have wrong?

    Check my previous posts for clarification. Sylvanas went through different experiences with some being similar. Again you can create a faction and not truly be a part of it.
    Does being a hockey team owner make you a hockey player? Does being worshiped sound like something that happens to normal forsaken? Does going against the freewill part of Forsaken make you forsaken?


    Check my previous posts for clarifications.
    Backstab the Horde or just Sylvanas? She went against everything the forsaken are first by raising members of the horde as mindless undead and trying to remove freewill from others.
    are you seriously whining about the soulless and mindless skeletons(are are basically just golems) from the battle for lordaeron event?
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  9. #609
    Quote Originally Posted by General Zanjin View Post
    are you seriously whining about the soulless and mindless skeletons(are are basically just golems) from the battle for lordaeron event?
    They were friends and family members. Desecrating the corpses of your own people when you plan on destroying everything anyways is super fucked up. She also was planning on enslaving Derek.

    Again read my other posts I dislike lightforged undead immensely. I'm just pointing out hypocrisy .

  10. #610
    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    Not everyone turned their back on the forsaken. Calia realized pretty much from the start of their existence there was some good undead.
    The Light forsook the Forsaken, they burn at the touch of it. It didn't Calia, Calia is one with it. Their souls are misaligned which is why their morality is out of whack and their positive emotions are subdued. Hers is a-okay which is why she's the same ray of sunshine she always was. Other humans they reached out to turned the Forsaken away - Calia was never rejected by anyone, not in life or death, indeed her friends greeted her when she came back and she's happier for it. The Forsaken's undeath has downsides and niche benefits that only people as fucked up as they are would fully appreciate - Calia's state has all the benefits and zero downsides and she chose it by herself. Calia is anathema to the Forsaken. There's a reason almost her entire support comes outside of the Forsaken (and Horde) fanbase.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

  11. #611
    The Unstoppable Force Arrashi's Avatar
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    Calia as new leader in a nutshell:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybuG9oBz8ak
    so accurate it hurts.

  12. #612
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    The Light forsook the Forsaken, they burn at the touch of it.
    That is both an unfair and not a true statement. The Light has repeatedly given its help to undead who have called for it. That it burns them because it is antithetical to the necromancy that animates them does not in any way mean it has forsaken them. We have several examples of undead who are willing and able to call upon the Light, and it always answers.
    Hail Lilith and see you in Hell!

  13. #613
    The Unstoppable Force Friendlyimmolation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    What question do I have wrong?
    Asking someone if they've played since Vanilla if you yourself have missed so much of Forsaken quests and identity.


    Check my previous posts for clarification. Sylvanas went through different experiences with some being similar. Again you can create a faction and not truly be a part of it.
    Does being a hockey team owner make you a hockey player? Does being worshiped sound like something that happens to normal forsaken? Does going against the freewill part of Forsaken make you forsaken?
    This comes off as pretty disingenuous, as if you yourself know Sylvanas is Forsaken but continue to insist that she is not.

    Are you no longer a football player because you retired and now own a team? No, you just have more experience than others, or a better comparison is once a Marine always a Marine.

    Forsaken have been for THEIR freewill since their inception, but they care little for others. If Derek was raised to be a weapon only, then you can make the argument that he was never intended to be Forsaken.

    Even the free will did not mean freedom from consequence, you see that back in Cata, those who leave the Forsaken but become or even are suspect of being enemies or even harmful to the Forsaken are killed.
    Quote Originally Posted by WoWKnight65 View Post
    That's same excuse from you and so many others on this website and your right some of threads do bully high elf fans to a point where they might end up losing their minds to a point of a mass shooting.
    Holy shit lol

  14. #614
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    That is both an unfair and not a true statement. The Light has repeatedly given its help to undead who have called for it. That it burns them because it is antithetical to the necromancy that animates them does not in any way mean it has forsaken them. We have several examples of undead who are willing and able to call upon the Light, and it always answers.
    If using the power makes you experience agonizing pain since it realigns your soul, your organized religious version that you followed in life doesn't permit your existence and just by virtue of the lack of positive emotion and the more selfish mindset induced by undeath you have difficulty reaching out to it, then yeah, engaging with the way you did in life is impossible. Prior to BTS, using the light was the province of those with extremely powerful faith to whom self-sacrifice was no issue and masochists. Mind, it's not like it matters, Faol has zero problems with it and Calia goes without saying, so we can throw that out of the window along with everything else while we're at it.
    Last edited by Super Dickmann; 2019-10-12 at 06:27 PM.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

  15. #615
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    The Light forsook the Forsaken, they burn at the touch of it. It didn't Calia, Calia is one with it. Their souls are misaligned which is why their morality is out of whack and their positive emotions are subdued. Hers is a-okay which is why she's the same ray of sunshine she always was. Other humans they reached out to turned the Forsaken away - Calia was never rejected by anyone, not in life or death, indeed her friends greeted her when she came back and she's happier for it. The Forsaken's undeath has downsides and niche benefits that only people as fucked up as they are would fully appreciate - Calia's state has all the benefits and zero downsides and she chose it by herself. Calia is anathema to the Forsaken. There's a reason almost her entire support comes outside of the Forsaken (and Horde) fanbase.
    I think the idea of lightforged undead is completely retarded but:

    The light didn't really forsaken them though did it? They feel it did. You can still wield the light its just crazy painful. Its probably more an elemental affinity thing which is why rangers and shit had problems as well connecting to nature.

    Calia is clearly part of the Il'gynoth quotes so we might not even have her in power very long. And if she isn't becoming a bag guy then its likely a way to explain how Forsaken can keep being made with Sylvanas gone.

  16. #616
    The Unstoppable Force Friendlyimmolation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    That is both an unfair and not a true statement. The Light has repeatedly given its help to undead who have called for it. That it burns them because it is antithetical to the necromancy that animates them does not in any way mean it has forsaken them. We have several examples of undead who are willing and able to call upon the Light, and it always answers.
    And it still brings them terrible pain, makes them recognize their own rot.

    It's not just physical, its symbolic. The salvation of the light was stripped from them, their kingdom was brought to ruin by a man who was supposed to serve the light, the paladins failed to save them, and in death the focus of their religion in life now hurts them even if they can use it.
    Quote Originally Posted by WoWKnight65 View Post
    That's same excuse from you and so many others on this website and your right some of threads do bully high elf fans to a point where they might end up losing their minds to a point of a mass shooting.
    Holy shit lol

  17. #617
    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    I think the idea of lightforged undead is completely retarded but:

    The light didn't really forsaken them though did it? They feel it did. You can still wield the light its just crazy painful. Its probably more an elemental affinity thing which is why rangers and shit had problems as well connecting to nature.

    Calia is clearly part of the Il'gynoth quotes so we might not even have her in power very long. And if she isn't becoming a bag guy then its likely a way to explain how Forsaken can keep being made with Sylvanas gone.
    The Forsaken perceive it to have abandoned them since their relationship is fundamentally changed. They can still do it, and it's a damn shame we didn't have more characters who did, since the whole 'it burns me but i leave so damn hard and want to help people so much that i use it anyway' is cool, as is 'it's the only way i can still feel, so i'll use it anyway' shtick.

    At least we agree on the LF undead part being retarded. Mind, I do think it can be done well - but that's if they're more inhumanly benevolent organic robots and less just regular people who happen to have the undead tag attached to make them viable candidates for Forsaken leadership.

    As for Il'gynoth's prophecy, I learned not to trust that brain after he gave me false hopes about Anduin.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

  18. #618
    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    And whats funnier is that she is the legit ruler of Lordaeron and many of the Forsaken wanted her back.
    How many, exactly? And where are they hiding?


    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    She was hunted by scourge, constantly in fear of her life and never being able to see her family again. Shunned for being the sister of Arthas and was attacked (and killed) because people feared her without truely knowing her which is exactly what happens to forsaken.
    Oh, yes. She must have been quaking in her boots in the safety of a Draenei sanctuary Faol took her to. Given how she hid her name, no one shunned her. The few she revealed it to were fine with that. And no Forsaken was attacked (and killed) for being a would be usurper to another ruler, they were attacked (and killed) for what they were.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
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    Slant is an extremist, willing to sacrifice the lives of everyone to keep his wet dream of the EU alive.
    You shouldn't support people like him, it's like supporting ISIS.

  19. #619
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    If using the power makes you experience agonizing pain since it realigns your soul, your organized religious version that you followed in life doesn't permit your existence and just by virtue of the lack of positive emotion and the more selfish mindset induced by undeath you have difficulty reaching out to it, then yeah, engaging with the way you did in life is impossible. Prior to BTS, using the light was the province of those with extremely powerful faith to whom self-sacrifice was no issue and masochists. Mind, it's not like it matters, Faol has zero problems with it and Calia goes without saying, so we can throw that out of the window along with everything else while we're at it.
    Again, my objection was to the way you worded it. The Light has not forsaken the Forsaken. They cannot stand it for obvious reasons, but it is there for them.
    Hail Lilith and see you in Hell!

  20. #620
    The Unstoppable Force Arrashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    How many, exactly? And where are they hiding?
    In the same place where all the orcs who didn't supported garrosh spent MoP.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Again, my objection was to the way you worded it. The Light has not forsaken the Forsaken. They cannot stand it for obvious reasons, but it is there for them.
    Kinda like abusive drunkard father.

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