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  1. #601
    The Unstoppable Force Friendlyimmolation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    So killing any returned undead who don't want to side with you is what it means to be forsaken? And creating a faction doesn't make you one. A king can order the formation of some knights under his command. It doesn't make him a knight the experiences of being a knight are what makes him one. Exactly what you are claiming against Calia which also works against Sylvanas.

    Have you been forsaken since vanilla? Because what being a forsaken is has changed several times now in wow.
    Best not to ask questions when you yourself have the answer wrong.

    Sylvanas went through the same damn things the Forsaken went through, the faction she herself created, a kingdom of freewilled undead intending to have revenge and carve out their own destiny, even now Sylvanas is still Forsaken.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    So Sylvanas didn't just slaughter a bunch of Forsaken recently? Also you never mentioned anything about the other stuff I wrote.
    The forsaken have killed Forsaken who have left or who have been accused of weakness since Vanilla.

    Remember the blood stone quests? Killing the Apothecary in the sludge fields? The execution of Forsaken who were captured in the Dragonblight quests?
    Last edited by Friendlyimmolation; 2019-10-12 at 06:00 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by WoWKnight65 View Post
    That's same excuse from you and so many others on this website and your right some of threads do bully high elf fans to a point where they might end up losing their minds to a point of a mass shooting.
    Holy shit lol

  2. #602
    The Insane General Zanjin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    So Sylvanas didn't just slaughter a bunch of Forsaken recently? Also you never mentioned anything about the other stuff I wrote.
    you mean the idiots that tried to side with calia and the alliance?
    or the idiot who helped Baine back stab the horde?
    #tracerisawesomelycute
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ght=shada%27in
    Mods are bias

  3. #603
    Quote Originally Posted by ClassicIsTerrible View Post
    How the hell does she have zero connection to the Forsaken? 90% of the Forsaken are citizens of Lordaeron, her people. She is the rightful Queen of Lordaeron. But talk out of your ass, I guess.
    I think that % is off post cata after Forsaken were going around assimilating gilneans, altaraci, residents of stromguard and other northern EK groups. Then there's also the fact that Calia might have been an heir to lordaeron, but we're not discussing Lordaeron anymore. much like constantinople, lordaeron's been a long time gone.

  4. #604
    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    Best not to ask questions when you yourself have the answer wrong.

    Sylvanas went through the same damn things the Forsaken went through, the faction she herself created, a kingdom of freewilled undead intending to have revenge and carve out their own destiny, even now Sylvanas is still Forsaken.

    - - - Updated - - -



    The forsaken have killed Forsaken who have left or who have been accused of weakness since Vanilla.
    What question do I have wrong?

    Check my previous posts for clarification. Sylvanas went through different experiences with some being similar. Again you can create a faction and not truly be a part of it.
    Does being a hockey team owner make you a hockey player? Does being worshiped sound like something that happens to normal forsaken? Does going against the freewill part of Forsaken make you forsaken?

    Quote Originally Posted by General Zanjin View Post
    you mean the idiots that tried to side with calia and the alliance?
    or the idiot who helped Baine back stab the horde?
    Check my previous posts for clarifications.
    Backstab the Horde or just Sylvanas? She went against everything the forsaken are first by raising members of the horde as mindless undead and trying to remove freewill from others.

  5. #605
    The Insane General Zanjin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    What question do I have wrong?

    Check my previous posts for clarification. Sylvanas went through different experiences with some being similar. Again you can create a faction and not truly be a part of it.
    Does being a hockey team owner make you a hockey player? Does being worshiped sound like something that happens to normal forsaken? Does going against the freewill part of Forsaken make you forsaken?


    Check my previous posts for clarifications.
    Backstab the Horde or just Sylvanas? She went against everything the forsaken are first by raising members of the horde as mindless undead and trying to remove freewill from others.
    are you seriously whining about the soulless and mindless skeletons(are are basically just golems) from the battle for lordaeron event?
    #tracerisawesomelycute
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ght=shada%27in
    Mods are bias

  6. #606
    Quote Originally Posted by General Zanjin View Post
    are you seriously whining about the soulless and mindless skeletons(are are basically just golems) from the battle for lordaeron event?
    They were friends and family members. Desecrating the corpses of your own people when you plan on destroying everything anyways is super fucked up. She also was planning on enslaving Derek.

    Again read my other posts I dislike lightforged undead immensely. I'm just pointing out hypocrisy .

  7. #607
    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    Not everyone turned their back on the forsaken. Calia realized pretty much from the start of their existence there was some good undead.
    The Light forsook the Forsaken, they burn at the touch of it. It didn't Calia, Calia is one with it. Their souls are misaligned which is why their morality is out of whack and their positive emotions are subdued. Hers is a-okay which is why she's the same ray of sunshine she always was. Other humans they reached out to turned the Forsaken away - Calia was never rejected by anyone, not in life or death, indeed her friends greeted her when she came back and she's happier for it. The Forsaken's undeath has downsides and niche benefits that only people as fucked up as they are would fully appreciate - Calia's state has all the benefits and zero downsides and she chose it by herself. Calia is anathema to the Forsaken. There's a reason almost her entire support comes outside of the Forsaken (and Horde) fanbase.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

  8. #608
    The Unstoppable Force Arrashi's Avatar
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    Calia as new leader in a nutshell:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybuG9oBz8ak
    so accurate it hurts.

  9. #609
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    The Light forsook the Forsaken, they burn at the touch of it.
    That is both an unfair and not a true statement. The Light has repeatedly given its help to undead who have called for it. That it burns them because it is antithetical to the necromancy that animates them does not in any way mean it has forsaken them. We have several examples of undead who are willing and able to call upon the Light, and it always answers.
    Hail Lilith and see you in Hell!

  10. #610
    The Unstoppable Force Friendlyimmolation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    What question do I have wrong?
    Asking someone if they've played since Vanilla if you yourself have missed so much of Forsaken quests and identity.


    Check my previous posts for clarification. Sylvanas went through different experiences with some being similar. Again you can create a faction and not truly be a part of it.
    Does being a hockey team owner make you a hockey player? Does being worshiped sound like something that happens to normal forsaken? Does going against the freewill part of Forsaken make you forsaken?
    This comes off as pretty disingenuous, as if you yourself know Sylvanas is Forsaken but continue to insist that she is not.

    Are you no longer a football player because you retired and now own a team? No, you just have more experience than others, or a better comparison is once a Marine always a Marine.

    Forsaken have been for THEIR freewill since their inception, but they care little for others. If Derek was raised to be a weapon only, then you can make the argument that he was never intended to be Forsaken.

    Even the free will did not mean freedom from consequence, you see that back in Cata, those who leave the Forsaken but become or even are suspect of being enemies or even harmful to the Forsaken are killed.
    Quote Originally Posted by WoWKnight65 View Post
    That's same excuse from you and so many others on this website and your right some of threads do bully high elf fans to a point where they might end up losing their minds to a point of a mass shooting.
    Holy shit lol

  11. #611
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    That is both an unfair and not a true statement. The Light has repeatedly given its help to undead who have called for it. That it burns them because it is antithetical to the necromancy that animates them does not in any way mean it has forsaken them. We have several examples of undead who are willing and able to call upon the Light, and it always answers.
    If using the power makes you experience agonizing pain since it realigns your soul, your organized religious version that you followed in life doesn't permit your existence and just by virtue of the lack of positive emotion and the more selfish mindset induced by undeath you have difficulty reaching out to it, then yeah, engaging with the way you did in life is impossible. Prior to BTS, using the light was the province of those with extremely powerful faith to whom self-sacrifice was no issue and masochists. Mind, it's not like it matters, Faol has zero problems with it and Calia goes without saying, so we can throw that out of the window along with everything else while we're at it.
    Last edited by Super Dickmann; 2019-10-12 at 06:27 PM.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

  12. #612
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    The Light forsook the Forsaken, they burn at the touch of it. It didn't Calia, Calia is one with it. Their souls are misaligned which is why their morality is out of whack and their positive emotions are subdued. Hers is a-okay which is why she's the same ray of sunshine she always was. Other humans they reached out to turned the Forsaken away - Calia was never rejected by anyone, not in life or death, indeed her friends greeted her when she came back and she's happier for it. The Forsaken's undeath has downsides and niche benefits that only people as fucked up as they are would fully appreciate - Calia's state has all the benefits and zero downsides and she chose it by herself. Calia is anathema to the Forsaken. There's a reason almost her entire support comes outside of the Forsaken (and Horde) fanbase.
    I think the idea of lightforged undead is completely retarded but:

    The light didn't really forsaken them though did it? They feel it did. You can still wield the light its just crazy painful. Its probably more an elemental affinity thing which is why rangers and shit had problems as well connecting to nature.

    Calia is clearly part of the Il'gynoth quotes so we might not even have her in power very long. And if she isn't becoming a bag guy then its likely a way to explain how Forsaken can keep being made with Sylvanas gone.

  13. #613
    The Unstoppable Force Friendlyimmolation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    That is both an unfair and not a true statement. The Light has repeatedly given its help to undead who have called for it. That it burns them because it is antithetical to the necromancy that animates them does not in any way mean it has forsaken them. We have several examples of undead who are willing and able to call upon the Light, and it always answers.
    And it still brings them terrible pain, makes them recognize their own rot.

    It's not just physical, its symbolic. The salvation of the light was stripped from them, their kingdom was brought to ruin by a man who was supposed to serve the light, the paladins failed to save them, and in death the focus of their religion in life now hurts them even if they can use it.
    Quote Originally Posted by WoWKnight65 View Post
    That's same excuse from you and so many others on this website and your right some of threads do bully high elf fans to a point where they might end up losing their minds to a point of a mass shooting.
    Holy shit lol

  14. #614
    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    I think the idea of lightforged undead is completely retarded but:

    The light didn't really forsaken them though did it? They feel it did. You can still wield the light its just crazy painful. Its probably more an elemental affinity thing which is why rangers and shit had problems as well connecting to nature.

    Calia is clearly part of the Il'gynoth quotes so we might not even have her in power very long. And if she isn't becoming a bag guy then its likely a way to explain how Forsaken can keep being made with Sylvanas gone.
    The Forsaken perceive it to have abandoned them since their relationship is fundamentally changed. They can still do it, and it's a damn shame we didn't have more characters who did, since the whole 'it burns me but i leave so damn hard and want to help people so much that i use it anyway' is cool, as is 'it's the only way i can still feel, so i'll use it anyway' shtick.

    At least we agree on the LF undead part being retarded. Mind, I do think it can be done well - but that's if they're more inhumanly benevolent organic robots and less just regular people who happen to have the undead tag attached to make them viable candidates for Forsaken leadership.

    As for Il'gynoth's prophecy, I learned not to trust that brain after he gave me false hopes about Anduin.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

  15. #615
    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    And whats funnier is that she is the legit ruler of Lordaeron and many of the Forsaken wanted her back.
    How many, exactly? And where are they hiding?


    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    She was hunted by scourge, constantly in fear of her life and never being able to see her family again. Shunned for being the sister of Arthas and was attacked (and killed) because people feared her without truely knowing her which is exactly what happens to forsaken.
    Oh, yes. She must have been quaking in her boots in the safety of a Draenei sanctuary Faol took her to. Given how she hid her name, no one shunned her. The few she revealed it to were fine with that. And no Forsaken was attacked (and killed) for being a would be usurper to another ruler, they were attacked (and killed) for what they were.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Slant is an extremist, willing to sacrifice the lives of everyone to keep his wet dream of the EU alive.
    You shouldn't support people like him, it's like supporting ISIS.

  16. #616
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    If using the power makes you experience agonizing pain since it realigns your soul, your organized religious version that you followed in life doesn't permit your existence and just by virtue of the lack of positive emotion and the more selfish mindset induced by undeath you have difficulty reaching out to it, then yeah, engaging with the way you did in life is impossible. Prior to BTS, using the light was the province of those with extremely powerful faith to whom self-sacrifice was no issue and masochists. Mind, it's not like it matters, Faol has zero problems with it and Calia goes without saying, so we can throw that out of the window along with everything else while we're at it.
    Again, my objection was to the way you worded it. The Light has not forsaken the Forsaken. They cannot stand it for obvious reasons, but it is there for them.
    Hail Lilith and see you in Hell!

  17. #617
    The Unstoppable Force Arrashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    How many, exactly? And where are they hiding?
    In the same place where all the orcs who didn't supported garrosh spent MoP.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Again, my objection was to the way you worded it. The Light has not forsaken the Forsaken. They cannot stand it for obvious reasons, but it is there for them.
    Kinda like abusive drunkard father.

  18. #618
    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    A ton more then 3. And its funny how you are pro Sylvanas killing everyone who disagrees with her and now you are upset when a new leader who hasn't killed her dissenters (yet) shows up. Sylvanas was a sexy elf banshee who could convert her body to ghost form and yet I don't see people like you bitching how she wasn't a true forsaken. Calia is almost completely Sylvanas 2.0 who only happened to have most of the bad shit happened to her while alive instead of her undeath and yet you people are crying that she isn't a true forsaken when the forsaken have never been lead by a true forsaken. Fleeing from ghouls and shit isn't hard?
    Yeah, Sylvanas that was a puppet to the Lich King just like the rest of the Forsaken (and then personally helped many to break free like she did, unlike Calia who did fuck all) is truly the same as Calia. Trying to conjure an argument on how separate Sylvanas was to Forsaken because "ermahgerd and Elf" is bogus when Arthas' campaign resulted in 90% of Thalassian population being incorporated into the Scourge from which the Forsaken then splintered. Also, Sylvanas killed people that betrayed her, not those that merely disagreed with her. Not that this is relevant to Calia anyway. And name those "a ton more than 3" Forsaken that wanted Calia. Given how outside of Dalaran coin Calia hasn't even been mentioned until Legion, good luck with that.


    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    So killing any returned undead who don't want to side with you is what it means to be forsaken? And creating a faction doesn't make you one. A king can order the formation of some knights under his command. It doesn't make him a knight the experiences of being a knight are what makes him one. Exactly what you are claiming against Calia which also works against Sylvanas.

    Have you been forsaken since vanilla? Because what being a forsaken is has changed several times now in wow.
    Comparison of a social class to a nation is totally valid The same applies to you trying to pigeon-hole Sylvanas' relation to the Forsaken to just her killing a handful of traitors, deliberately brushing everything else, including how she went through the same thing as they did, under the carpet. Simply splendid argument you got here.


    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    Fucking a footman and then running away from zombies AND surviving isn't hard.
    Let's not forget that by this amazing "surviving Scourge = Forsaken" Scarlet Crusade members are first grade Forsaken leader candidates.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Slant is an extremist, willing to sacrifice the lives of everyone to keep his wet dream of the EU alive.
    You shouldn't support people like him, it's like supporting ISIS.

  19. #619
    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    Asking someone if they've played since Vanilla if you yourself have missed so much of Forsaken quests and identity.




    This comes off as pretty disingenuous, as if you yourself know Sylvanas is Forsaken but continue to insist that she is not.

    Are you no longer a football player because you retired and now own a team? No, you just have more experience than others, or a better comparison is once a Marine always a Marine.

    Forsaken have been for THEIR freewill since their inception, but they care little for others. If Derek was raised to be a weapon only, then you can make the argument that he was never intended to be Forsaken.

    Even the free will did not mean freedom from consequence, you see that back in Cata, those who leave the Forsaken but become or even are suspect of being enemies or even harmful to the Forsaken are killed.
    It's been 15 years so I'll admit I don't remember much but I don't remember there being a mention of joining or becoming dead again until they changed the zones.

    And Cata isn't the start of the forsaken race.

    Forsaken don't care about others? I'm pretty sure there are many quests where you help people....


    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    This comes off as pretty disingenuous, as if you yourself know Sylvanas is Forsaken but continue to insist that she is not.

    Are you no longer a football player because you retired and now own a team? No, you just have more experience than others, or a better comparison is once a Marine always a Marine.
    You are proving my point exactly. Being a football player then retiring and becoming an owner means you were a football player. Being a Tech guy and owning a football team doesn't mean you are a football player. Its the experience. Just because someone had a somewhat similar experience of being a rugby player doesn't mean they become a football player when they own a football team.

    Sylvanas was an elite ranger from a totally different race that had no real connection to the light. Most forsaken are civilian humans whose entire life pretty much revolved around the light. Sylvanas became a Banshee and gained vast powers while all other Forsaken are basically were just regular zombies. She was attacked by former humans and some dead elves lead by a human. Everyone that attacked the Forsaken were their former friends, family, and prince. She then kept her beauty while everyone else was forced to be rotten bags of flesh who repulsed people when they looked at them. They also looked no different from the scourge so of course any humans would freak out while Sylvanas looked like an elf.

  20. #620
    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    Just FYI I hate the idea of lightforged undead. I'm just pointing out that people who were fine with Sylvanas not even remotely having the experiences of a normal forsaken and having looks and abilites beyond them while also being worshiped instead of shunned is nowhere near what a forsaken is. The Forsaken have never truly had a forsaken leader except maybe for like 2 seconds when they tried and formed a council. Just because she created the faction doesn't make her a forsaken look at my previous post for clarification.
    What the hell does Sylvanas being worshiped by other undead have to do with anything? Sylvanas was still shunned by the living. You know, the exact same group that shunned the rest of the Forsaken, because Forsaken didn't shun each other in general, it's not something they reserved just to Sylvanas. When Sylvanas first reached out to Quel'Thalas they told her to fuck off despite being an esteemed member of their society in life and someone who laid down her life for the Thalassian people.

    And how are Sylvanas' powers "experiences" that would disqualify Sylvanas as a Forsaken? Forsaken Warlocks also have powers that the others lack. Does that make them not Forsaken? And how do looks factor into that? Sylvanas' appearance still changed. And depending on the circumstances of one's death one can be resurrected and still be in somewhat good shape. Being a Forsaken doesn't necessarily mean being ugly as sin.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Slant is an extremist, willing to sacrifice the lives of everyone to keep his wet dream of the EU alive.
    You shouldn't support people like him, it's like supporting ISIS.

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