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  1. #621
    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    A ton more then 3. And its funny how you are pro Sylvanas killing everyone who disagrees with her and now you are upset when a new leader who hasn't killed her dissenters (yet) shows up. Sylvanas was a sexy elf banshee who could convert her body to ghost form and yet I don't see people like you bitching how she wasn't a true forsaken. Calia is almost completely Sylvanas 2.0 who only happened to have most of the bad shit happened to her while alive instead of her undeath and yet you people are crying that she isn't a true forsaken when the forsaken have never been lead by a true forsaken. Fleeing from ghouls and shit isn't hard?
    Yeah, Sylvanas that was a puppet to the Lich King just like the rest of the Forsaken (and then personally helped many to break free like she did, unlike Calia who did fuck all) is truly the same as Calia. Trying to conjure an argument on how separate Sylvanas was to Forsaken because "ermahgerd and Elf" is bogus when Arthas' campaign resulted in 90% of Thalassian population being incorporated into the Scourge from which the Forsaken then splintered. Also, Sylvanas killed people that betrayed her, not those that merely disagreed with her. Not that this is relevant to Calia anyway. And name those "a ton more than 3" Forsaken that wanted Calia. Given how outside of Dalaran coin Calia hasn't even been mentioned until Legion, good luck with that.


    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    So killing any returned undead who don't want to side with you is what it means to be forsaken? And creating a faction doesn't make you one. A king can order the formation of some knights under his command. It doesn't make him a knight the experiences of being a knight are what makes him one. Exactly what you are claiming against Calia which also works against Sylvanas.

    Have you been forsaken since vanilla? Because what being a forsaken is has changed several times now in wow.
    Comparison of a social class to a nation is totally valid The same applies to you trying to pigeon-hole Sylvanas' relation to the Forsaken to just her killing a handful of traitors, deliberately brushing everything else, including how she went through the same thing as they did, under the carpet. Simply splendid argument you got here.


    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    Fucking a footman and then running away from zombies AND surviving isn't hard.
    Let's not forget that by this amazing "surviving Scourge = Forsaken" Scarlet Crusade members are first grade Forsaken leader candidates.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Slant is an extremist, willing to sacrifice the lives of everyone to keep his wet dream of the EU alive.
    You shouldn't support people like him, it's like supporting ISIS.

  2. #622
    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    Asking someone if they've played since Vanilla if you yourself have missed so much of Forsaken quests and identity.




    This comes off as pretty disingenuous, as if you yourself know Sylvanas is Forsaken but continue to insist that she is not.

    Are you no longer a football player because you retired and now own a team? No, you just have more experience than others, or a better comparison is once a Marine always a Marine.

    Forsaken have been for THEIR freewill since their inception, but they care little for others. If Derek was raised to be a weapon only, then you can make the argument that he was never intended to be Forsaken.

    Even the free will did not mean freedom from consequence, you see that back in Cata, those who leave the Forsaken but become or even are suspect of being enemies or even harmful to the Forsaken are killed.
    It's been 15 years so I'll admit I don't remember much but I don't remember there being a mention of joining or becoming dead again until they changed the zones.

    And Cata isn't the start of the forsaken race.

    Forsaken don't care about others? I'm pretty sure there are many quests where you help people....


    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    This comes off as pretty disingenuous, as if you yourself know Sylvanas is Forsaken but continue to insist that she is not.

    Are you no longer a football player because you retired and now own a team? No, you just have more experience than others, or a better comparison is once a Marine always a Marine.
    You are proving my point exactly. Being a football player then retiring and becoming an owner means you were a football player. Being a Tech guy and owning a football team doesn't mean you are a football player. Its the experience. Just because someone had a somewhat similar experience of being a rugby player doesn't mean they become a football player when they own a football team.

    Sylvanas was an elite ranger from a totally different race that had no real connection to the light. Most forsaken are civilian humans whose entire life pretty much revolved around the light. Sylvanas became a Banshee and gained vast powers while all other Forsaken are basically were just regular zombies. She was attacked by former humans and some dead elves lead by a human. Everyone that attacked the Forsaken were their former friends, family, and prince. She then kept her beauty while everyone else was forced to be rotten bags of flesh who repulsed people when they looked at them. They also looked no different from the scourge so of course any humans would freak out while Sylvanas looked like an elf.

  3. #623
    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    Just FYI I hate the idea of lightforged undead. I'm just pointing out that people who were fine with Sylvanas not even remotely having the experiences of a normal forsaken and having looks and abilites beyond them while also being worshiped instead of shunned is nowhere near what a forsaken is. The Forsaken have never truly had a forsaken leader except maybe for like 2 seconds when they tried and formed a council. Just because she created the faction doesn't make her a forsaken look at my previous post for clarification.
    What the hell does Sylvanas being worshiped by other undead have to do with anything? Sylvanas was still shunned by the living. You know, the exact same group that shunned the rest of the Forsaken, because Forsaken didn't shun each other in general, it's not something they reserved just to Sylvanas. When Sylvanas first reached out to Quel'Thalas they told her to fuck off despite being an esteemed member of their society in life and someone who laid down her life for the Thalassian people.

    And how are Sylvanas' powers "experiences" that would disqualify Sylvanas as a Forsaken? Forsaken Warlocks also have powers that the others lack. Does that make them not Forsaken? And how do looks factor into that? Sylvanas' appearance still changed. And depending on the circumstances of one's death one can be resurrected and still be in somewhat good shape. Being a Forsaken doesn't necessarily mean being ugly as sin.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Slant is an extremist, willing to sacrifice the lives of everyone to keep his wet dream of the EU alive.
    You shouldn't support people like him, it's like supporting ISIS.

  4. #624
    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    What the hell does Sylvanas being worshiped by other undead have to do with anything? Sylvanas was still shunned by the living. You know, the exact same group that shunned the rest of the Forsaken, because Forsaken didn't shun each other in general, it's not something they reserved just to Sylvanas. When Sylvanas first reached out to Quel'Thalas they told her to fuck off despite being an esteemed member of their society in life and someone who laid down her life for the Thalassian people.

    And how are Sylvanas' powers "experiences" that would disqualify Sylvanas as a Forsaken? Forsaken Warlocks also have powers that the others lack. Does that make them not Forsaken? And how do looks factor into that? Sylvanas' appearance still changed. And depending on the circumstances of one's death one can be resurrected and still be in somewhat good shape. Being a Forsaken doesn't necessarily mean being ugly as sin.
    She wasn't just worshiped by undead. Nor did people vomit when they saw her. She was killed by a different race. Forsaken were killed by their loved ones then shunned by the living ones. She still has 99% her people in the horde with her. Hell her family were even interested in reuniting with her. So apparently her one time 3 month ban is the same horrible experience as never getting to see your human friends and family for years/decades....

    Her experience is different then normal forsaken. Hell she is willing to even sacrifice them for her own goals.

  5. #625
    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    They were friends and family members. Desecrating the corpses of your own people when you plan on destroying everything anyways is super fucked up. She also was planning on enslaving Derek.
    Forsaken are well known to give a shit about desecrating corpses. That's why they made a weapon that turns the corpses of their targets into sludge /s And Sylvanas was planning to brainwash Derek, who wasn't a Forsaken to begin with, which isn't the same thing. Forsaken had a lobotomized human slave running through their city for years and no one even squinted, because they don't really care about their enemies.


    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    That is both an unfair and not a true statement. The Light has repeatedly given its help to undead who have called for it. That it burns them because it is antithetical to the necromancy that animates them does not in any way mean it has forsaken them. We have several examples of undead who are willing and able to call upon the Light, and it always answers.
    Oh, yes. I'm sure Forsaken would share your sentiment that they haven't been abandoned by the Light after it hurt them to use it because the state of being that was forced upon them against their will is antithetical to the Light.


    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    Calia is clearly part of the Il'gynoth quotes so we might not even have her in power very long. And if she isn't becoming a bag guy then its likely a way to explain how Forsaken can keep being made with Sylvanas gone.
    And nothing will come out of that just like nothing came out of Anduin's three lies.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Slant is an extremist, willing to sacrifice the lives of everyone to keep his wet dream of the EU alive.
    You shouldn't support people like him, it's like supporting ISIS.

  6. #626
    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    Forsaken are well known to give a shit about desecrating corpses. That's why they made a weapon that turns the corpses of their targets into sludge /s And Sylvanas was planning to brainwash Derek, who wasn't a Forsaken to begin with, which isn't the same thing. Forsaken had a lobotomized human slave running through their city for years and no one even squinted, because they don't really care about their enemies.


    And nothing will come out of that just like nothing came out of Anduin's three lies.
    Derek was raised just like a normal forsaken. Forsaken care about friends/family which is why the non undead humans hating/abandoning them was so hurting and such a major part of the race(hint its even in their name).


    You chose to believe it was about Anduin. Plenty of people believed it was Wrathion and they turned out right.

  7. #627
    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    Sylvanas was an elite ranger from a totally different race that had no real connection to the light. Most forsaken are civilian humans whose entire life pretty much revolved around the light. Sylvanas became a Banshee and gained vast powers while all other Forsaken are basically were just regular zombies. She was attacked by former humans and some dead elves lead by a human. Everyone that attacked the Forsaken were their former friends, family, and prince. She then kept her beauty while everyone else was forced to be rotten bags of flesh who repulsed people when they looked at them. They also looked no different from the scourge so of course any humans would freak out while Sylvanas looked like an elf.
    Except the experience that shaped the Forsaken into what they are now is what happened to them from the moment of their death onward... To which racial barriers are irrelevant. Sylvanas went through the same experience after death they did. And really, trying to hang onto her social position before her death? Is Alexi Barrov less of a Forsaken because he came from a very wealthy noble family? And the Scourge didn't discriminate. It incorporated civilians and soldiers alike. And civilians and soldiers alike then broke from the Lich King's grasp. They are all equally Forsaken.

    Also, Sylvanas was forced to take part in Scourge's attack on the Sunwell. The High Elves defending it fought her just like the humans fought other Forsaken. She personally witnessed the death of Anasterian, meaning she was close to him when he died. And had Arthas not challenged him directly, chances are Sylvanas would have been forced to fight him just as she was forced to fight other Elves. And despite Sylvanas' appearance (which isn't really unique because Forsaken are preserved in the state they were resurrected in so if they were resurrected immediately and weren't mangled when killed they looked just fine) Blood Elves ignored her attempt to reach out just like humans ignored the Forsaken as a whole.


    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    She wasn't just worshiped by undead. Nor did people vomit when they saw her. She was killed by a different race. Forsaken were killed by their loved ones then shunned by the living ones. She still has 99% her people in the horde with her. Hell her family were even interested in reuniting with her. So apparently her one time 3 month ban is the same horrible experience as never getting to see your human friends and family for years/decades....

    Her experience is different then normal forsaken. Hell she is willing to even sacrifice them for her own goals.
    She wasn't just worshipepd by the undead? Yeah, the undead did and felt multiple different things towards her than worship. How is that relevant to your argument? And given how Arthas wiped out 90% of the Thalassian race, rethink those numbers. And Sylvanas was forced to fight High Elves resurrected by the Scourge. Being forced to fight your friends and loved ones because of the Scourge isn't magically unique to humans because the Scourge used the same exact tactic wherever it went. And Vereesa was interested in reuniting with Sylvanas over a decade after Quel'Thalas fell, so what were you saying about not getting to see one's family for years/decades, again?


    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    Derek was raised just like a normal forsaken. Forsaken care about friends/family which is why the non undead humans hating/abandoning them was so hurting and such a major part of the race(hint its even in their name).
    Derek being raised just like a normal Forsaken doesn't make him Forsaken. Voss was raised the same way, she only joined in BfA. Rotbrain were raised the same way, they never joined. Just like Derek. And since Derek is neither a friend nor family to any known Forsaken, your remark here is an utter non-sequitur to the point you responded to.


    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    You chose to believe it was about Anduin. Plenty of people believed it was Wrathion and they turned out right.
    They turned out right? What lies did Wrathion tell us, again?

    Also, still waiting for the names of the Forsaken wishing for Calia to come back.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Slant is an extremist, willing to sacrifice the lives of everyone to keep his wet dream of the EU alive.
    You shouldn't support people like him, it's like supporting ISIS.

  8. #628
    The Insane General Zanjin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    Derek was raised just like a normal forsaken. Forsaken care about friends/family which is why the non undead humans hating/abandoning them was so hurting and such a major part of the race(hint its even in their name).


    You chose to believe it was about Anduin. Plenty of people believed it was Wrathion and they turned out right.
    derek was raised to be a tool not to be a forsaken.
    #tracerisawesomelycute
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    Mods are bias

  9. #629
    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    Except the experience that shaped the Forsaken into what they are now is what happened to them from the moment of their death onward... To which racial barriers are irrelevant. Sylvanas went through the same experience after death they did. And really, trying to hang onto her social position before her death? Is Alexi Barrov less of a Forsaken because he came from a very wealthy noble family? And the Scourge didn't discriminate. It incorporated civilians and soldiers alike. And civilians and soldiers alike then broke from the Lich King's grasp. They are all equally Forsaken.

    Also, Sylvanas was forced to take part in Scourge's attack on the Sunwell. The High Elves defending it fought her just like the humans fought other Forsaken. She personally witnessed the death of Anasterian, meaning she was close to him when he died. And had Arthas not challenged him directly, chances are Sylvanas would have been forced to fight him just as she was forced to fight other Elves. And despite Sylvanas' appearance (which isn't really unique because Forsaken are preserved in the state they were resurrected in so if they were resurrected immediately and weren't mangled when killed they looked just fine) Blood Elves ignored her attempt to reach out just like humans ignored the Forsaken as a whole.


    She wasn't just worshipepd by the undead? Yeah, the undead did and felt multiple different things towards her than worship. How is that relevant to your argument? And given how Arthas wiped out 90% of the Thalassian race, rethink those numbers. And Sylvanas was forced to fight High Elves resurrected by the Scourge. Being forced to fight your friends and loved ones because of the Scourge isn't magically unique to humans because the Scourge used the same exact tactic wherever it went. And Vereesa was interested in reuniting with Sylvanas over a decade after Quel'Thalas fell, so what were you saying about not getting to see one's family for years/decades, again?
    It's not her social position. Its me saying she is a fighter from a completely different race who was attacked by a human in a battle while most forsaken were scrub civilians. You don't think thats a different experience then having your sister rip your throat out? It wasn't someone she loved nor was it a member of her own race. Yes she was forced to fight former friends just like every original forsaken. But a couple similar experiences doesn't mean she is exactly the same. Especially when she so easily abandoned them and has been using them as pawns to keep herself alive since vanilla.

    You know I men't 99% of the living people(very few are high elves, most are blood elves). And I mean other races other than undead worship her. More so when she was warchief. She has had more love thrown at her than any couple thousand forsaken would ever hope to have. And could go back to the now blood elves any time she wanted after they joined the Horde. How many forsaken are allowed to go to Stormwind? Hell even if they wanted to visit a living family member and the Alliance let them Sylvanas would kill them claiming them as a threat even if they were some random cheese vendor.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post

    Derek being raised just like a normal Forsaken doesn't make him Forsaken. Voss was raised the same way, she only joined in BfA. Rotbrain were raised the same way, they never joined. Just like Derek. And since Derek is neither a friend nor family to any known Forsaken, your remark here is an utter non-sequitur to the point you responded to.
    You mean just like every new forsaken that never had a chance to see their family because they were conscripted into the Horde and never experienced the same shit the original forsaken did? You claim all forsaken share this same experience when the majority who were attacked by the scarlet crusade, shunned by their families, etc... are likely dead by now from all the wars and shit. Did you forget that Sylvanas keeps raising new people?


    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post

    They turned out right? What lies did Wrathion tell us, again?
    Is wrathion serving at the masters table in the raid? Who knows what lies he told? Because the main lie I hear about Anduin was about Sylvanas saying Anduin thinks that killing Rastakhan was a victory for the Alliance when he himself says he thinks it may have just made the Horde stronger.

    Quote Originally Posted by General Zanjin View Post
    derek was raised to be a tool not to be a forsaken.
    All forsaken are raised to be tools. And do you think average joe forsaken knows
    Sylvanas's plans?
    Last edited by qwerty123456; 2019-10-12 at 07:33 PM.

  10. #630
    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    It's been 15 years so I'll admit I don't remember much but I don't remember there being a mention of joining or becoming dead again until they changed the zones.

    And Cata isn't the start of the forsaken race.

    Forsaken don't care about others? I'm pretty sure there are many quests where you help people....



    You are proving my point exactly. Being a football player then retiring and becoming an owner means you were a football player. Being a Tech guy and owning a football team doesn't mean you are a football player. Its the experience. Just because someone had a somewhat similar experience of being a rugby player doesn't mean they become a football player when they own a football team.

    Sylvanas was an elite ranger from a totally different race that had no real connection to the light. Most forsaken are civilian humans whose entire life pretty much revolved around the light. Sylvanas became a Banshee and gained vast powers while all other Forsaken are basically were just regular zombies. She was attacked by former humans and some dead elves lead by a human. Everyone that attacked the Forsaken were their former friends, family, and prince. She then kept her beauty while everyone else was forced to be rotten bags of flesh who repulsed people when they looked at them. They also looked no different from the scourge so of course any humans would freak out while Sylvanas looked like an elf.
    i dont know if it is worse compare a football club to an army/nation or saying that high elven didnt have connection with the light, when they thaught to human the light in first place

    oh, and forsaken arent all zombie, there are abominations, banshees (like you know, sylvanas), i think even some sentient skeleton and ghouls
    and she didnt kepts her beauty, arthas did, and still her body is cracked as all embalmed corpses

  11. #631
    Quote Originally Posted by omeomorfismo View Post
    i dont know if it is worse compare a football club to an army/nation or saying that high elven didnt have connection with the light, when they thaught to human the light in first place

    oh, and forsaken arent all zombie, there are abominations, banshees (like you know, sylvanas), i think even some sentient skeleton and ghouls
    and she didnt kepts her beauty, arthas did, and still her body is cracked as all embalmed corpses
    https://wow.gamepedia.com/Church_of_the_Holy_Light

    https://wow.gamepedia.com/Light

    Here's some reading you need to do ^.

    Yes there are some forsaken that aren't basic forsaken but they aren't playable and waaaay less common.

  12. #632
    Legendary! sam86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    You chose to believe it was about Anduin. Plenty of people believed it was Wrathion and they turned out right.
    the '3 lies' line is considered now a bullsh8t line, it pissed me off because i loved to spectate about what old gods 'prophecies' mean, but seem that some of them are bullsh8t, which make it worthless to even check new lines because who knows what will be true and what will be bullsh8t
    no the 3 lies don't refer to anduin or wrathion or even Timmy the cruel, they refer to blizz sh8t writing and how they keep try to not f8ck it but they f8ck it even more because wow has to stay as mmo and they are forced to f8ck the story for gameplay reasons
    The beginning of wisdom is the statement 'I do not know.' The person who cannot make that statement is one who will never learn anything. And I have prided myself on my ability to learn
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  13. #633
    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    the '3 lies' line is considered now a bullsh8t line, it pissed me off because i loved to spectate about what old gods 'prophecies' mean, but seem that some of them are bullsh8t, which make it worthless to even check new lines because who knows what will be true and what will be bullsh8t
    no the 3 lies don't refer to anduin or wrathion or even Timmy the cruel, they refer to blizz sh8t writing and how they keep try to not f8ck it but they f8ck it even more because wow has to stay as mmo and they are forced to f8ck the story for gameplay reasons
    Why is it considered a bullshit line. Do you have any proof? And the story has been fucked for gameplay reasons since forever. Realistically the war wouldn't have lasted this long either one side would have beat the other into submission or they would have stopped fighting long ago because it was pointless and they always work together to take on a big bad. The faction conflict has been the single worst story destroying plot in the entirety of WoW.

  14. #634
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    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    The faction conflict has been the single worst story destroying plot in the entirety of WoW.
    Why do people keep posting this nonsense in the post-WoD world? Much of the non-faction related conflict we've seen in the past few years has been incredibly weak.

    Blizzard is really just failing at basic storytelling in general. To try and pin this all on "Faction War bad" is a pretty ignorant take.

  15. #635
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildberry View Post
    Why do people keep posting this nonsense in the post-WoD world? Much of the non-faction related conflict we've seen in the past few years has been incredibly weak.

    Blizzard is really just failing at basic storytelling in general. To try and pin this all on "Faction War bad" is a pretty ignorant take.
    How many games have had successful decades long storlines involving 2 different people joining together to fight a greater threat?

    Now tell me how many games have had successfully pulled off decades of conflict between two player factions?

    You write a plausible and good storyline for 20 + years of faction conflict that wont upset either of the factions and I'll fund the development of that into a game.

    How the fuck can you have constant conflict with no sides winning? Unless you tell faction x "don't worry guys 3 expansions from now you will turn it around and start beating back the other guys until they are the underdogs 5 expansions from now." you are going to have people dropping like flies and even then you will still have people quitting. No one wants to keep being on the losing side and no one will think any of the losses/wins are even. And how do you explain the constant influx of new soldiers to kill? It's not a realistic scenario eventually one side needs to win or both sides need to end the conflict. What countries in real life have stayed enemies and continually have wars for the entirety of their existence?

    Look at ESO and SWTOR they repeatedly need to have everyone working together because you can't maintain a perma conflict between player factions. I'm sure there are other faction games but those are the two I remembered offhand. The mother fucking Empire and Republic have worked together......

  16. #636
    Titan Wildberry's Avatar
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    @qwerty123456 Go back and reread my post. Great job dodging the point.

  17. #637
    First the horde have 2 of their warchiefs turn into raving lunatics then they STEAL an alliance leader? Well this is horde favoritism if ive ever seen it.

  18. #638
    Maybe this guy? Found it on wowhead.

    Looks like revived Arthas to me. Mangled mug, dead eyes, light hair but not totally white.

    M-mom? M-m-mommy, p-please d-d-d-don't kill me. I-I rea-lly am not j-just a lump of cells. Pleasssse Mommy.

  19. #639
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildberry View Post
    @qwerty123456 Go back and reread my post. Great job dodging the point.
    I'm not dodging the point. You claim the faction conflict stuff has been good when it makes no logical sense. I explained why you can't have a game continue on with faction conflict when players are the factions. You are just trying to dodge my points.

    How much of WoD storyline is directly because of the needed faction conflict? Do you really think Garrosh would have been the warchief if the faction conflict didnt exist? Everything in the game is due to Blizzard choosing to have pvp and 2 factions. If there was one, 3, 7, 22 etc factions the entire story would be different.

    Sure maybe they would have created a Garrosh to go back in time to obsess over his daddy if there was no faction conflict but to claim it is the worst storyline in wow when it at least makes some sense no matter how convoluted it is compared to the continual faction shit.

    The fact of the matter is the non-faction shit has to fit the faction conflict storyline.
    Last edited by qwerty123456; 2019-10-12 at 11:28 PM.

  20. #640
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildberry View Post
    Why do people keep posting this nonsense in the post-WoD world? Much of the non-faction related conflict we've seen in the past few years has been incredibly weak.

    Blizzard is really just failing at basic storytelling in general. To try and pin this all on "Faction War bad" is a pretty ignorant take.
    Non-faction war stuff has been weak, but the faction war is extremely destructive. People prefer weak story to story that destroys everything it touches.

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